Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
That's what I mean. He wasn't the end all, one man army Shinra said he was, in the war. 
Sephiroth: What the fuck happened?
- Thread starter Makoeyes987
- Start date
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
Ah, it seems we have reached our communicative bridge, haha.
What about that incident with Zack in the Nibelheim reactor, where he is staggering around and clutching his head? Is that because he finally realizes that he is a monster, and it pains him, or is something deeper going on (ie: Jenova cells)?
EDIT: This is just a thought I had, and if I post it in the wrong place, I'm sorry and just point me in the right direction. I remember reading somewhere that in Dissidia, Sephiroth says that he let go of his humanity, or something along those lines. I also remember Vincent telling Lucrecia that Sephiroth was dead. Now, come from that angle, is it possible that the Sephiroth everyone knew before he went insane is dead? I don't mean in a "Well he went insane, of course that side of him is dead". I mean, while reconstructing himself on the way to the Northern Crater, did he leave out what little humanity (ie: emotions such as caring and concern; the memories of his friends, etc...) on purpose?
EDIT: This is just a thought I had, and if I post it in the wrong place, I'm sorry and just point me in the right direction. I remember reading somewhere that in Dissidia, Sephiroth says that he let go of his humanity, or something along those lines. I also remember Vincent telling Lucrecia that Sephiroth was dead. Now, come from that angle, is it possible that the Sephiroth everyone knew before he went insane is dead? I don't mean in a "Well he went insane, of course that side of him is dead". I mean, while reconstructing himself on the way to the Northern Crater, did he leave out what little humanity (ie: emotions such as caring and concern; the memories of his friends, etc...) on purpose?
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ForceStealer
Double Growth
Eh...I suppose its possible, but I think he just turned evil and those kinds of emotions simply weren't stirred in him any longer. Anyone he may have actually cared about is dead anyway. (Genesis isn't technically, but Sephiroth either doesn't know that or doesn't care - he didn't seem very fond of him at the 'end' anyway.)
It's true that he doesn't remember Cloud when he first sees him again. But its not like Cloud was super important to him. Yeah Cloud 'killed' him, but Sephiroth wasn't bent on revenge yet, he was more preoccupied with the ridiculous amounts of knowledge he gained in the Lifestream. If anything Cloud had done him a favor by that point.
It's true that he doesn't remember Cloud when he first sees him again. But its not like Cloud was super important to him. Yeah Cloud 'killed' him, but Sephiroth wasn't bent on revenge yet, he was more preoccupied with the ridiculous amounts of knowledge he gained in the Lifestream. If anything Cloud had done him a favor by that point.
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Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
What part of Dissidia are you talking about?
And really, figuratively speaking, he did abandon his humanity and if he's reconstructing himself with Jenova cells, then there's very little (if any) human physiology left now.
@Force Stealer
Wha? When does he not remember Cloud?
And really, figuratively speaking, he did abandon his humanity and if he's reconstructing himself with Jenova cells, then there's very little (if any) human physiology left now.
@Force Stealer
Wha? When does he not remember Cloud?
ForceStealer
Double Growth
On the boat from Junon to Costa Del Sol.
Sephiroth appears.
Cloud: "Sephiroth! You're alive!"
Sephiroth: "...Who are you?"
Cloud: "You don't remember me? I'm Cloud!"
Sephiroth: "Cloud..."
Cloud: "Sephiroth! Why are you here? What are you planning?!
blah-de-blah
It was the first subtle hint that Cloud wasn't who he said he was.
Sephiroth appears.
Cloud: "Sephiroth! You're alive!"
Sephiroth: "...Who are you?"
Cloud: "You don't remember me? I'm Cloud!"
Sephiroth: "Cloud..."
Cloud: "Sephiroth! Why are you here? What are you planning?!
blah-de-blah
It was the first subtle hint that Cloud wasn't who he said he was.
I don't know, I just suggest what my mind brings up, and unfortunately I had a Harry Potter moment at the time. I just find it kind of strange that he wouldn't remember the face of the boy who could take getting impaled on Masamune long enough to toss him into the reactor.
It also makes me curious as to how Sephiroth would react should he meet Genesis again.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I think it was also more of a hint that, that wasn't the real Sephiroth. And Jenova was merely mimicing Sephiroth's appearance, until finally tapping into Sephiroth's persona and acting appropriately.
Sephiroth definitely isn't going to forget Cloud.
Sephiroth definitely isn't going to forget Cloud.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
But Sephiroth's controlling Jenova, he sees everything she sees.
He definitely never knew Cloud's name, but more than that, he just spent 5 YEARS sucking up pretty much all the knowledge the Planet has to offer. Is he really even remotely concerned with his past life? He's well on his way to becoming a god. Does he have any particular reason to remember Cloud?
He definitely never knew Cloud's name, but more than that, he just spent 5 YEARS sucking up pretty much all the knowledge the Planet has to offer. Is he really even remotely concerned with his past life? He's well on his way to becoming a god. Does he have any particular reason to remember Cloud?
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
That's true..he is remotely controlling Jenova.
But Sephiroth did know Cloud's name. I'm sure he heard it in passing and called him by name. He did take the time to ask Cloud what it was like being back in his home town after all.
I dunno, I suppose what you're saying wuold make sense too. But given his hard on and grudge against Cloud, it just seems weird he'd forget him.
But Sephiroth did know Cloud's name. I'm sure he heard it in passing and called him by name. He did take the time to ask Cloud what it was like being back in his home town after all.
I dunno, I suppose what you're saying wuold make sense too. But given his hard on and grudge against Cloud, it just seems weird he'd forget him.
I can't remember, I just remember somebody mentioning that he mentioned he gave up his humanity. If I remember right, it was a debate on whether Sephiroth was tossed into the reactor vs. Jumping in willing.
On the ship traveling from Junon before the Jenova fight.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
He may have heard his name, and the mention of a hometown intrigued him, but he WAS just one of the hundreds of Shinra grunts Sephiroth has surely been accompanied by. He never uses his name before that.
And he didn't have a grudge yet, he didn't seek him out, Cloud found him. Like I said he came out stronger because of what happened to him in Nibelheim, he probably really didn't care any more. Now, when Cloud and co. defeated him in his godlike state, THEN he probably realized the humiliation of having lost to this kid twice.
Also, to clarify, it's not like he's dumbfounded as to who Cloud his, he remembers after that scene (and he does attack right after that), and realizes what an easy puppet he'll make. But what happened back in Nibelheim was the furthest thing from his mind as he realized his plans, so he didn't recognize this fairly insignificant character. I feel like he'd remember Genesis, Angeal, or Zack immediately.
And he didn't have a grudge yet, he didn't seek him out, Cloud found him. Like I said he came out stronger because of what happened to him in Nibelheim, he probably really didn't care any more. Now, when Cloud and co. defeated him in his godlike state, THEN he probably realized the humiliation of having lost to this kid twice.
Also, to clarify, it's not like he's dumbfounded as to who Cloud his, he remembers after that scene (and he does attack right after that), and realizes what an easy puppet he'll make. But what happened back in Nibelheim was the furthest thing from his mind as he realized his plans, so he didn't recognize this fairly insignificant character. I feel like he'd remember Genesis, Angeal, or Zack immediately.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
The Dissidia part you're thinking of is
It has nothing to do with whether he jumped or was thrown. And really, as shown in CC, he was thrown.
Where Sephiroth killed himself in the previous conflict between Chaos and Cosmos, to see just how "real" death was, and if he could become one with the spirit energy of the world. Because of this, he does come back, but lost some of his memories.
It has nothing to do with whether he jumped or was thrown. And really, as shown in CC, he was thrown.
Okay, would you please elaborate on that a little more. He willingly killed himself? Suicide anyone?
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
More Sephiroth stuff from Dissidia, for BWAngel.
Sephiroth committed suicide, yes. The villains were even shocked that he did that. He did it as a test to determine what was permanent in the world of Dissidia and to see if he could become one with the spirit energy of the world. However he of course came back, and as a consequence, he lost some of his memories.
He regains them though, during Shade Impulse, where he then starts to increase his power with the power of the discord.
He regains them though, during Shade Impulse, where he then starts to increase his power with the power of the discord.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
No they don't show it sadly.
But I have this image of Sephiroth just standing around silently while Mateus, Ultimecia, and Kefka are talking and then suddenly just violently and loudly thrusting his Masamune into his chest and collapsing.
Emperor Mateus: ....Did you just see that?
Ultimecia: What the hell? Did he just kill himself for no reason?
Kefka: And I thought *I* was fucking nuts. WOW!
Emperor Mateus: ....Did you just see that?
Ultimecia: What the hell? Did he just kill himself for no reason?
Kefka: And I thought *I* was fucking nuts. WOW!
EbonGale
the bomb in the piano
- AKA
- SableWind
Of course, such a mental picture begs the question of how the hell he managed to hold the sword far enough away from him in order to do it.
Does he grab it by the blade? Or does he just sort of struggle fruitlessly, trying to pull his arms out far enough? xD
He'd have the same problem if he used a sheath. How the hell would you ever get it out?
Ridiculousness aside, those spoilers have me so much more psyched for Dissidia than I was before. How exciting. :3
Does he grab it by the blade? Or does he just sort of struggle fruitlessly, trying to pull his arms out far enough? xD
He'd have the same problem if he used a sheath. How the hell would you ever get it out?
Ridiculousness aside, those spoilers have me so much more psyched for Dissidia than I was before. How exciting. :3
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No they don't show it sadly.
But I have this image of Sephiroth just standing around silently while Mateus, Ultimecia, and Kefka are talking and then suddenly just violently and loudly thrusting his Masamune into his chest and collapsing.
Emperor Mateus: ....Did you just see that?
Ultimecia: What the hell? Did he just kill himself for no reason?
Kefka: And I thought *I* was fucking nuts. WOW!
Please tell me you are joking. It is very hard to tell when someone is being serious.
). like I said in my previous comment, I don't even think Seph would be able to without it looking all sorts of ridiculous.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
The mental image was my own imagination of the scenario that happened in Dissidia. For lulz
The mental image was my own imagination of the scenario that happened in Dissidia. For lulz
Oh,
sorry. Thanks for the clarification. But I got to admit, that would make one hell of a fan comic.EDIT:
That is interesting. I mean, I know in UO that Sephiroth was in control of Jenova, and (if I heard correctly) Jenova tried to take control of Sephiroth when he fell into the lifestream, but his will was so strong it didn't work. I've also heard that Sephiroth is considered an evolved form of Jenova.
Going with this angle, I wondered if the Jenova cells had anything to do with his madness. I mean besides instincts, did he hear a voice in his head or see something we didn’t? I remember reading in a translation of UO, the head of Jenova would always be the central point of the Reunion. So if this is correct, and if Sephiroth hadn't taken the head with him, the Reunion wouldn't have occurred at the location Sephiroth was at, making me wonder if, when dismembering Jenova's main body, he instinctually grabbed the head, not only because it was closer and easier to carry, but because it would hold the active Jenova cells.
If I remember right, it says somewhere that the Cetra put Jenova into a coma before sealing her away. So, while the rest of her body might be “dead”, but her brain cells would still be functioning. Therefore, in the Nibelheim reactor, before Sephiroth’s run in with Genesis, his mind was sound and strong enough to resist the instinctual pull of Jenova cells trying to reunite with each other. But, start this whole spout about monsters and Genesis being the blood-red gothic ass that he is, Sephiroth’s mental walls, if you want to call it, began to crumble, and the Jenova cells were able to start their (instinctual) attack. I remember UO, saying that only members with strong mental states were able to make it into SOLDIER.
I'm not trying to say, UO is wrong, Jenova had complete contol of Sephiroth. I'm just saying that the Jenova cells in him must have influenced what happened. And, I mean this on a deeper level, "not just the we already been told this, or it's already been seen in the game/movie" level.
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Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
I think some of you guys are thinking too much into it, no offense. At the point on the ship, Cloud was just some insignificant flea to him. It probably took him an 'oh yeah, that guy' to remember who Cloud was. Saying someone's name once in passing doesn't ensure you're going to remember the guy.
Or, nobody likes to hear this, it could be just poor writing.
Or, nobody likes to hear this, it could be just poor writing.