Sephiroth: What the fuck happened?

[VivaLaValenwind]

Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=Arianna link=topic=272.msg25751#msg25751 date=1236023256]
[quote author=God Hand link=topic=272.msg25700#msg25700 date=1236016882]
Hi everyone. 1st time post here. Anyway one thing I don't understand about Sephiroth is that he honestly had no idea about teh experiments that made him?[/quote]

I think it's always been something he'd been mulling around in his head.

When he started learning about Project G, I'm sure he was closer to the truth - and he knew it.

Perhaps he was either ignoring (or, at least trying to ignore) the parts that were too personal, or he was not able to find direct proof - but it was coming to him.
[/quote]

Yep and look what happens when he goes to reactor and reads up in the library. He kills everyone. I must say that was a dumb choice on Shinra's part to send Sephiroth over to Nibleheim even if Genesis was possibly there. I'm sure they lost a lot of publicity for having their number one SOLDIER "killed"

 

[Arianna]

Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=VivaLaValenwind link=topic=272.msg25922#msg25922 date=1236040721]
[quote author=Arianna link=topic=272.msg25751#msg25751 date=1236023256]
[quote author=God Hand link=topic=272.msg25700#msg25700 date=1236016882]
Hi everyone. 1st time post here. Anyway one thing I don't understand about Sephiroth is that he honestly had no idea about teh experiments that made him?[/quote]

I think it's always been something he'd been mulling around in his head.

When he started learning about Project G, I'm sure he was closer to the truth - and he knew it.

Perhaps he was either ignoring (or, at least trying to ignore) the parts that were too personal, or he was not able to find direct proof - but it was coming to him.
[/quote]
Yep and look what happens when he goes to reactor and reads up in the library. He kills everyone. I must say that was a dumb choice on Shinra's part to send Sephiroth over to Nibleheim even if Genesis was possibly there. I'm sure they lost a lot of publicity for having their number one SOLDIER "killed"
[/quote]

To be honest, I think it hit Sephiroth when he was at the reactor the first time. Quite literally too; you could tell he was having a mental break down. He was not sure on everything, but he was finally faced with hard-core proof that he was not the same as others.

What information he learned in the library, I find, goaded on his mentally fragile state into delusions of granduer. Oh yes, he was strong, and yes, he was different - but all the information that were contained in those books were found out to be wrong. Hojo knew that Jenova was not an Ancient; as Gast's videos have pointed that out.

I still say that Sephiroth was always (at least, as far as the time BC, CC, LO, and beyond are concerned) mentally unstable. His father was unstable, to say the least, and he was raised under unusual circumstances, I'm quite sure (not proclaiming they were all in essence abusive circumstances). He was a grown man, but still a lost little boy inside.

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=Arianna link=topic=272.msg25990#msg25990 date=1236048119]
[quote author=VivaLaValenwind link=topic=272.msg25922#msg25922 date=1236040721]
[quote author=Arianna link=topic=272.msg25751#msg25751 date=1236023256]
[quote author=God Hand link=topic=272.msg25700#msg25700 date=1236016882]
Hi everyone. 1st time post here. Anyway one thing I don't understand about Sephiroth is that he honestly had no idea about teh experiments that made him?[/quote]

I think it's always been something he'd been mulling around in his head.

When he started learning about Project G, I'm sure he was closer to the truth - and he knew it.

Perhaps he was either ignoring (or, at least trying to ignore) the parts that were too personal, or he was not able to find direct proof - but it was coming to him.
[/quote]
Yep and look what happens when he goes to reactor and reads up in the library. He kills everyone. I must say that was a dumb choice on Shinra's part to send Sephiroth over to Nibleheim even if Genesis was possibly there. I'm sure they lost a lot of publicity for having their number one SOLDIER "killed"
[/quote]

To be honest, I think it hit Sephiroth when he was at the reactor the first time. Quite literally too; you could tell he was having a mental break down. He was not sure on everything, but he was finally faced with hard-core proof that he was not the same as others.

What information he learned in the library, I find, goaded on his mentally fragile state into delusions of granduer. Oh yes, he was strong, and yes, he was different - but all the information that were contained in those books were found out to be wrong. Hojo knew that Jenova was not an Ancient; as Gast's videos have pointed that out.

I still say that Sephiroth was always (at least, as far as the time BC, CC, LO, and beyond are concerned) mentally unstable. His father was unstable, to say the least, and he was raised under unusual circumstances, I'm quite sure (not proclaiming they were all in essence abusive circumstances). He was a grown man, but still a lost little boy inside.
[/quote]

Yep i have to agree but i guess knowing that you're different from everyone else would indeed cause one to be mentally unstable. I just love how Genesis is a little instigator going "YOU'RE A MONSTER!!!" I do have to say though, i did enjoy good guy Sephy.

 

[Arianna]

Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=VivaLaValenwind link=topic=272.msg26508#msg26508 date=1236125639]
[quote author=Arianna link=topic=272.msg25990#msg25990 date=1236048119]
To be honest, I think it hit Sephiroth when he was at the reactor the first time. Quite literally too; you could tell he was having a mental break down. He was not sure on everything, but he was finally faced with hard-core proof that he was not the same as others.

What information he learned in the library, I find, goaded on his mentally fragile state into delusions of granduer. Oh yes, he was strong, and yes, he was different - but all the information that were contained in those books were found out to be wrong. Hojo knew that Jenova was not an Ancient; as Gast's videos have pointed that out.

I still say that Sephiroth was always (at least, as far as the time BC, CC, LO, and beyond are concerned) mentally unstable. His father was unstable, to say the least, and he was raised under unusual circumstances, I'm quite sure (not proclaiming they were all in essence abusive circumstances). He was a grown man, but still a lost little boy inside.
[/quote]

Yep i have to agree but i guess knowing that you're different from everyone else would indeed cause one to be mentally unstable. I just love how Genesis is a little instigator going "YOU'RE A MONSTER!!!" I do have to say though, i did enjoy good guy Sephy.
[/quote]

Yeah. Good!Sephiroth was a gossip. ;D Was I the only one who caught up on that one (when he approaches Zack regarding Hollander's escape)? He knew about Aerith and Zack; or, at least, he was up on the information that there was a girl in the slums that Zack was getting serious with.

Well, I would think it's not just because he had white/silver hair, feline-like eyes and was quite strong; I believe Sephiroth's whole way of life was odd and different. He was brought up in the Shinra Science Department - I mean, come on... I can only guess what life was like; while I don't ascribe to the 'totally horrific and abusive' life, he definitely would have had it different from any other child.

 

[ElMonk86]

Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Sephiroth had a lot of anger in him. I mean, he didn't really know anything about himself. The confusion pissed him off.

Once he found out the truth, the UGLY truth at that, all that anger just came pouring out. It was inside of him all along. It was just how he reacted to it. Nobody was really there to tell him that it was all good.

I think the vicious streak was inside of him all along, but I also think had he had the right guidance growing up, he might've dealt with it differently.

CC makes me feel kind of bad for Sephiroth. He's a tragic villain I guess you can say. That guy was dealt a bad deck of cards.

BUT...that's no excuse for what he would end up doing.

 

[Flowing Ice]

Sorry to revive the thread, but I also see it that Sephiroth was genuinely a hero before things turned bad. A caring, strong hart. Sure..He always seemed cold to some degree. However, that was because of his training and fighting in war, you're not going to leave from all that, and not get cold to some degree. Plus, his detached upbringing.

He was like a toy basically, having friends or not. That's how Shinra, especially Hojo, saw him.

Them, of course, the incidents began. We all know what happened from there.

 

[Mariketsu]

I mostly agree with OWA-2, though it is true that Sephiroth did not have a proper upbringing, he still had a decent life of sorts. He had friends, though he only seemed to really trust very few, being Genesis and Angeal and then eventually Zack to an extent, and he was basically doing is job as a 1st Class SOLDIER for ShinRa. As, OWA-2 said, Elfe's question to him about what he was fighting for did leave him a little inwardly confused and it only further added to the point in time where he encountered Genesis at the Mako Reactor and his once best friend began to blatantly start shoving part of the truth in his face (Genesis managed to piss me the hell off at this point, the tard), which only served to make him more uneasy inside and then simultaneously hurt his feelings as well. Sephiroth was more or less afraid of being a monster, to which he never was, but only became more apparent when he read the flawed "truth" in the journals and science reports on him and Jenova, she heavily being mistaken for a Cetra when she was not.

He truly did have a kind heart and was very caring to those he held dear but even the most caring and nicest of people are capable of undergoing a drastic and sudden abrupt change when they are faced with a horrifying or traumatic event or truth. If anything, it was moreso traumatic to him and it overloaded him in his weak mental state, lapsing into insanity. At this point, his mind was only set directly on reuniting with his "mother" which could be attained to her having slight influence over him, though his Will rendered her unable to control him at all.

His kind heart and caring side is mainly shown in several scenes like the one where he wanted to be the donor for Genesis when his wound from the VR Room battle did not heal, but Sephiroth was sadly rejected because he was told "he was not compatible". It looked to me like he was sad and a little hurt because he was unable to help his best friend, which tells me how deeply caring he was to those close to him. When he smiled, albeit a little mischievious-like during the VR Room battle, the smiles seemed to me, very genuine and they truly showed how human he was.

As I mentioned before, anyone, even the nicest people, are capable of undergoing a a sudden and dramatic change due to something traumatic and it surely did not help that he was inwardly growing increasingly curious and uneasy about his origins that he seemed to be wanting to know for at least half his life, wanting to know why he was 'different'. After his death and then his return in FFVII and ACC, though, Ultimania confirmed he merged with Jenova's head and while she still was not able to control him, she was still fully capable of some influence, imho, as he did abosrb a good bit of her hatred for every living thing as well. Well, that's my take on it anyway, so ya, looong post, LOLz.

+ Angel-Winged Demon +

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I never really considered Sephiroth to be a caring and kind guy or whatever. WTF? To me, he was just a man. A neutral hearted man.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I hardly see him as a caring person either. He cares for his friends though, but that doesn't make him a caring person. That just makes him a person who clearly is capable of valuing friendship. Anybody can care about a friend or person to you. It's genuinely caring for complete strangers and people that are outside your circle of interaction that makes you 'caring.' By that definition, every person who isn't a sociopath and is capable of bonding with friends and family is "caring."

 

[Lord Noctis]

Agreed, Sephiroth cares for his friends, but I don't think he would really care that much for a stranger. TBH, I think strangers just annoy him since in his line of work they either turn out to be drooling fans, or enemies trying to kill him.

 

[Masamune]

"Everyone calls him a hero, but he's just a killer."

Well said, Zangan.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well Zangan isn't the most impartial source. He just happened to see Sephiroth at his worst while having a bad day. Give him a break

But seriously, when people call Sephiroth a "hero," people need to understand that Sephiroth wasn't the glorious hero he's cracked up to be. That was a result of Shinra manipulating the media and public image of him. Play CC more and read the Complete Guide. Zack did more work in terms of cleaning out Wutai, yet Sephiroth comes in near the end, and gets the heroic image. Why? Because Shinra wanted it so.

 

[Masamune]

Zangan's a sensei, and sensei are always right.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Zangan's a sensei, and sensei are always right.

This is wrong. I take karate ok, according to my Sensei, everyone makes mistakes, and any Sensei who tells you they don't is best avoided.

Heck, my Sesei will always be the first to point out his own mistakes and correct them.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Masamune was being silly. Don't take him so seriously.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Masamune was being silly. Don't take him so seriously.

Sorry, I can sometimes have a hard time picking up on things like that when I don't have anything like the tone of voice or facial expression to go off of.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, internet humor can be a bit difficult to pick up. But I get it since I'm used to dealing with his humor here XD

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Play CC more and read the Complete Guide. Zack did more work in terms of cleaning out Wutai, yet Sephiroth comes in near the end, and gets the heroic image. Why? Because Shinra wanted it so.

Wait, Zack did more work in cleaning out Wutai? Are you talking about the actual war itself, or the post war activities? Because the Wutai War itself at that point had been going on since Zack was fresh out of diapers. Sephiroth (and the rest of the crew) had been on the actual front lines for years even before Zack came anywhere near the military.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm talking about that particular mission in the game. The cleaning out of the Wutai remnants. He was there and did it all but then they said Sephiroth did it, which was a lie. And only done because Sephiroth was the major, media built hero.

And even then, Sephiroth wasn't in the Wutai War *that* much. He wasn't on the front lines all through the beginning actually.

 

[Flowing Ice]

Wait, Zack did more work in cleaning out Wutai? Are you talking about the actual war itself, or the post war activities? Because the Wutai War itself at that point had been going on since Zack was fresh out of diapers. Sephiroth (and the rest of the crew) had been on the actual front lines for years even before Zack came anywhere near the military.

Indeed, heck, even the nature of Zack's missions screamed clean-up when I was first playing it. A war isn't nearly that short, lol

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Indeed, heck, even the nature of Zack's missions screamed clean-up when I was first playing it. A war isn't nearly that short, lol

Yep, the Wutai War lasted for about a good ten years. Mostly because Wutai is (or rather was) underestimated and Shinra is overestimated. Remember, Wutai was a major world power, and militarily, they were strong as fuck.

I'm talking about that particular mission in the game. The cleaning out of the Wutai remnants. He was there and did it all but then they said Sephiroth did it, which was a lie. And only done because Sephiroth was the major, media built hero.

And even then, Sephiroth wasn't in the Wutai War *that* much. He wasn't on the front lines all through the beginning actually.

Ah. I'm a sucker for war stories, and I find the Wutai War one of the most interesting, yet relatively little paid attention to parts of the FFVII universe. You're right, Sephiroth must have been in his early teens when the war started. Would it be fair to say that the war turned around slightly when Sephiroth was introduced? Honestly it doesn't seem like Shinra was doing *that* well, and I'm of the belief that if it wasn't for SOLDIER, Shinra would have (or could have, to a lesser extreme) lost the war.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm sure Sephiroth turned the tide, but he wasn't there from the get go or all that much. When you get a perfect score during Zack's evaluation mission with Lazard there, you hear Kunsel and Zack talk about it.

Sephiroths' war hero depiction is a big media lie by Shinra. They do it in order to make the people fall in love with SOLDIER and love Shinra and shit. It's just one of the many dardk facets of Shinra

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, you're right, but come to think of it, why would Shinra need to overstate, lie, or otherwise media whore Sephiroth out? Considering he was the strongest human alive, and had the fighting skill to prove it, why didn't they or couldn't they send him out as much as possible during the war to actually rack up achievements instead of lying about it?

That's like Michael Jordan lying about how points he scored and how many games he won, when it could...actually get points and win games since it's well within his ability to do so.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth's popular and him being in the forefront makes people like Shinra more, and thus the people are more likely to obey and believe Shinra's lies. It's control.

And why didn't they? You do remember that one of the rights of a SOLDIER 1st Class is to refuse missions they don't want to do. Sephiroth perhaps didn't want to do it. He may have not felt like going out and living Wutai for years, when he could do other missions tailored to his interests. It's only when the President personally orders Sephiroth that he has to do it.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Sephiroth's popular and him being in the forefront makes people like Shinra more, and thus the people are more likely to obey and believe Shinra's lies. It's control.

Well yeah, but considering that Sephiroth is more than able to do that on his own, why lie about it?

While no doubt Shinra fluffed Sephiroth up, I thought it was more of them understating everyone elses contributions to the war than them making up stuff Sephiroth did. Sephiroth may not have done quite as much as Shinra said he did, but he had to have spent a considerable time in the war. I mean I see what you're saying, but I don't want to slide into thinking Sephiroth wasn't all that active in the war.

He just may not have been the end all one man army that Shinra said he was. But he did do quite a bit.