Should they re-make FFVII?

[ForceStealer]

They can do whatever they want in a remake so long as they give me a triceratops tank!

I'd love to see the experiment that led to that...

 

[Tennyo]

Me, too.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Play Mother 3.

 

[Tennyo]

What's that?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

They have Google nowadays, ya know.

 

[Tennyo]

Yeah but that's too much work. I'd rather you link me.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm surprised you never heard of it, never played Super Smash Bros.?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah but that's too much work. I'd rather you link me.

I just did! Look at the post again.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You misunderstood me. The original will not lose its charm, I agree. However, the remake would not have the original's charm.

No shit, because it won't be the original.

It'll hopefully find its own unique charm and be something other than a carbon copy riding on the nostalgia wagon of the original. They'll have to create their own charm and unique aspects.

Wow, never knew you were such a graphics whore, Mako. And arguing to have it remade just because the graphics are better... well, the Pokemon games have been going since the release of FFVII, with only minor graphical innovations, none of which push the system (case in point: Diamond/Pearl vs the FMV at the beginning of FFIII DS).

If you actually think that derivative franchise for kids is on par with what we're talking about here for FFVII, then we're clearly arguing on two different things here. That's a pretty crappy example, and Pokemon is the perfect example of a franchise that's mostly the same ideas being recycled and getting put into pretty packaging. That's sadly what fans apparently want an FFVII remake to be. That game would be a disaster and would be a failure, save for the most diehard FFVII fans.

Also, I'd want to know about the missing year (at the end of CC, Aerith says in her letter it's been four years since Zack was reported MIA/DIA. In FFVII, its repeated several times that the Nibelheim Incident was five years ago).Bleached by more exposure to sunlight? *shrugs*

You do realize that Cloud and Zack were on the run for a year right?

 

[Makoeyes987]

I can't be the only one who appreciated and preferred FFVIII's more realistic assortment of monsters.

Besides, PuPu was there to balance things!

Most of FFVIII's monsters were dull and annoying. There were a few shining gems of well designed enemies, but most were derivative. The bosses were however quite epic looking. Ultimecia's castle had one of the coolest and most interesting final team of bosses I remember. But as a whole, their bestiary was just...boring. Pupu was a wonderful addition though, I agree.

 

[Dashell]

Here's a question, do you think Square WOULD remake FFVII?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Most of FFVIII's monsters were dull and annoying. There were a few shining gems of well designed enemies, but most were derivative. The bosses were however quite epic looking. Ultimecia's castle had one of the coolest and most interesting final team of bosses I remember. But as a whole, their bestiary was just...boring. Pupu was a wonderful addition though, I agree.

Dude, no way! FFVIII had some of the best!

Blue Dragons, Hexadragons, Ruby Dragons, Anacondaurs, Geezards, Wendigos, Tri-Faces, Oilboyles, Elnoyles, Creeps, Buels, Blitzes, Abyss Worms, Mesmerizes, Propagators, Snow Lions, T-Rexaurs! Not to mention it was the first to give us the awesome Tonberry King (the dude drops TV sets on you!) and the glorious Jumbo Cactaur (visible on the world map!)!

And that's not even to mention that the game retains the position of best designs -- in my opinion, of course -- for Iron Giants, Ultima Weapon, Ifrit, Bahamut, Leviathan and Carbuncle.

Plus: Quezacotl. Doomtrain. Diablos. PuPu (again)!

Even the Bite Bug is memorable.

If you considered these guys dull, then what were some designs that blew you away?

Here's a question, do you think Square WOULD remake FFVII?

Certainly. The developers who made it the first time would like to do it, and it's just a matter of time before the head honchos decide to tap into it again.

They've already demonstrated a willingness to fund remakes of other FF titles, as well as a willingness to touch upon FFVII again. Really, it's inevitable.

It's not a question of "if," but of "when" and "will it receive the full scope of current possibilities, or will it be done like the FFIII and FFIV remakes?"

 

[Dashell]

It's not a question of "if," but of "when" and "will it receive the full scope of current possibilities, or will it be done like the FFIII and FFIV remakes?"

HOw were they done exactly?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Dude, no way! FFVIII had some of the best!

Blue Dragons, Hexadragons, Ruby Dragons, Anacondaurs, Geezards, Wendigos, Tri-Faces, Oilboyles, Elnoyles, Creeps, Buels, Blitzes, Abyss Worms, Mesmerizes, Propagators, Snow Lions, T-Rexaurs! Not to mention it was the first to give us the awesome Tonberry King (the dude drops TV sets on you!) and the glorious Jumbo Cactaur (visible on the world map!)!

The fact I can barely remember those monsters, but I can almost list all the monsters of FFIX off the top of my head says something.

Ruby Dragons were well designed, as were the Blue and Hexadragons. I liked T-Rexaurs too. But anacondaurs, geezards, wendigos, tri-faces, oilboyles, Creeps, Buels, blitzes, snow lions, and the like looked like generic, misshapen mutants. They looked like something you'd be killing in a mutant, first person shooter game or something.

And that's not even to mention that the game retains the position of best designs -- in my opinion, of course -- for Iron Giants, Ultima Weapon, Ifrit, Bahamut, Leviathan and Carbuncle.

The iron giants for FFVIII were the best, I agree. I prefered the Ultima Weapon of FFVII and FFVI the most though. Ifrit, Bahamut and Leviathan were really good too. Nomura was on top of his game with those designs. I think Leviathan and Carbuncle looked best there. But I prefer Ifrit and Bahamut's FFX incarnations the best.

Plus: Quezacotl. Doomtrain. Diablos. PuPu (again)!

Yeah, they looked cool too.

Even the Bite Bug is memorable.

.....I think you're pushing it.

If you considered these guys dull, then what were some designs that blew you away?

Well the bosses, summons, and some memorable monsters were awesomely done in FFVIII, but the generic fodder enemies are just that...generic fodder. They look like really weird, and poorly crafted mutants.

FFVII, FFIX, and FFV's monsters are truly my favorites. FFVI's would be next.

Oh, and the ones of FFXII too.

 

[Mantichorus]

No shit, because it won't be the original.

It'll hopefully find its own unique charm and be something other than a carbon copy riding on the nostalgia wagon of the original. They'll have to create their own charm and unique aspects.

This. However, you're missing the point - a lot of people want the remake thinking it'll be the same game, but better. It'll be a different game, with some things for the better and some things for the worse. However, as "better" and "worse" are entirely subjective, if there is a remake, the fanbase will argue over which bits are which.

If you actually think that derivative franchise for kids is on par with what we're talking about here for FFVII, then we're clearly arguing on two different things here. That's a pretty crappy example, and Pokemon is the perfect example of a franchise that's mostly the same ideas being recycled and getting put into pretty packaging. That's sadly what fans apparently want an FFVII remake to be. That game would be a disaster and would be a failure, save for the most diehard FFVII fans.

Um, (1) Pokemon is what got me into RPGs in the first place, (2) both were first released in Japan the same year, and (3) both were the first J-RPGs to make it big in the West. Also, I don't have the sales figures, but I'd imagine they're pretty similar (Pokemon generation 1 - Red, Green, Japanese Blue, International Blue, Yellow - vs FFVII (PS, not including PSN)).

But my point is this: arguing that because they can remake FFVII with better graphics, they should, is kind of a joke when graphics don't have much effect on the success of a game, unless it's a casual title such as Grand Theft Auto. Yes, good graphics can make a good game better, but considering that the two biggest Japanese RPG franchises in the West are the Final Fantasy and Pokemon games, you can't argue that making the graphics better are going to make a huge difference on how "good" the game is.

Also, another interesting comparison: is it just me or are both franchises going downhill?

You do realize that Cloud and Zack were on the run for a year right?

Um, Tres had already pointed that out?

 

[Vendel]

Yes.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I haven't played much of any FF game except those in the compilation, but I've noticed that the concensus among the experts here is that the earlier games were the best, esp IV, V, VI amd VII. Stunning graphics can sometimes dominate to such an extent than every other aspect of a game (or film) ends up playing second fiddle. For example, if SE hadn't been so caught up in what ACC looked like, it might have been a better story.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I haven't played much of any FF game except those in the compilation, but I've noticed that the concensus among the experts here is that the earlier games were the best, esp IV, V, VI amd VII. Stunning graphics can sometimes dominate to such an extent than every other aspect of a game (or film) ends up playing second fiddle. For example, if SE hadn't been so caught up in what ACC looked like, it might have been a better story.

That's bullshit. Focusing on graphics and story is more than possible, and what should be done. Each go hand in hand are equally important. And FFVI pushed the Super Famicom/SNES to the absolute limits of the hardware, and it still told a compelling story while having excellent graphics for its time.

Likewise if Spirits Within actually focused on what it looked like, it probably wouldn't have been one of the biggest box office bombs in the history of movie making. Saying graphics and shit aren't important now, is silly. Because the entire visual medium of a game or movie is the primary avenue of how we interact with said story.

And you can criticize AC/ACC all you want, but its rather amusing that that was the film that ended up winning film festival awards, and selling millions of copies, while Spirits Within was the box office bomb and ended up nearly bankrupting Squaresoft. Apparently, they struck the balance of depiction and storytelling just fine.

But my point is this: arguing that because they can remake FFVII with better graphics, they should, is kind of a joke when graphics don't have much effect on the success of a game, unless it's a casual title such as Grand Theft Auto. Yes, good graphics can make a good game better, but considering that the two biggest Japanese RPG franchises in the West are the Final Fantasy and Pokemon games, you can't argue that making the graphics better are going to make a huge difference on how "good" the game is.

I have no idea what you're talking about, but games and movies have busted because they weren't able to keep up and pull off a compelling and adequate visual depiction for its time. Again. Case in point, FF: The Spirits Within. You can say graphics don't matter all you want, but if one gamer is shown a game with cutting edge graphics and gameplay, and then shown an outdated, clunky and ugly game, then more than likely they won't give a shit how awesome the story is of the latter, and go for the visually appealing game that's actually going to be fun and play like games that fit the generation.

FFVII's great, but if you really think that it can be successful without being graphically up to date, then I'm very glad you're not a game developer. A remake like that would fail. Lazy development like that makes critics and gamers like me hate anime spinoff titles that still use 16, 32 bit graphics and shit on handhelds and consoles when they could do so much more. The developers don't even try.

And also...Pokemon is a handheld game. The bar is set pretty low in terms of what players are expecting from graphics. Holding FF and Pokemon to the same standard in terms of graphics is silly. The graphical expectation for a pokemon game is significantly lower than for an FF console title, especially one of such hype as FFVII. If FF held the same graphics and gameplay as they did from the early PS2 console era, they'd be lambasted for lazy development and sales would suffer.

 

[Mantichorus]

I have no idea what you're talking about, but games and movies have busted because they weren't able to keep up and pull off a compelling and adequate visual depiction for its time. Again. Case in point, FF: The Spirits Within. You can say graphics don't matter all you want, but if one gamer is shown a game with cutting edge graphics and gameplay, and then shown an outdated, clunky and ugly game, then more than likely they won't give a shit how awesome the story is of the latter, and go for the visually appealing game that's actually going to be fun and play like games that fit the generation.

FFVII's great, but if you really think that it can be successful without being graphically up to date, then I'm very glad you're not a game developer. A remake like that would fail. Lazy development like that makes critics and gamers like me hate anime spinoff titles that still use 16, 32 bit graphics and shit on handhelds and consoles when they could do so much more. The developers don't even try.

Y'know, I'm beginning to wonder if you're being deliberately dense.

I'm not saying that a remake should have the same graphics as the original. Hell, if they do a remake, updating the graphics by some degree would and should be the first thing they'd do. What I'm saying is, arguing that making a remake would be a good idea because they can do it with better graphics (which seems to be the main thing you keep coming back to) is pointless.

The reason I used Pokemon as an example is that there have been calls for a console remake of the GB games using current graphics since the days of the N64. Calling for a remake just on graphical issues will get you nowhere.

They'll only return to the game if they feel that they want to do more to the game's storyline (this is possible: why else the Compilation? Oh, right - money) and/or if there's a flaw in the gameplay they feel they should address.

As for the importance of graphics - in the US and Japanese markets (there aren't many clear records for the EU markets), the DS regularly outsells all other consoles, home or handheld.

Just to be clear: I'd be overjoyed if there was a remake. However, I don't want them to do a remake as a half-assed graphical clean up just to get some more money. If they were to have a definite direction, areas where the storyline had been altered to acknowledge the Compilation, extra character moments, etc., then I'm all for it.

 

[Glaurung]

I haven't played much of any FF game except those in the compilation, but I've noticed that the concensus among the experts here is that the earlier games were the best, esp IV, V, VI amd VII. Stunning graphics can sometimes dominate to such an extent than every other aspect of a game (or film) ends up playing second fiddle. For example, if SE hadn't been so caught up in what ACC looked like, it might have been a better story.

I've played (or watched playing) almost every game of the series (except II, VIII -because the battle system sucked big time- and XI). Both the story and the graphics are important. Every time I praise FFV I do it remembering how old it is, and how games used to be back then. It would be unfair to compare a sprite based RPG from early-mid 90's with the lattest videogames (as I've read in other parts). They did with those games what the technology at that time allowed them.

I wonder what lacked ACC to be a good story, because I still can't see what's wrong with it

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I wasn't saying that graphics aren't important. That would be pretty silly, given that we're talking about a visual medium. What I meant to say was that, as graphics become more and more spectacular, it's possible for other aspects to get relegated to secondary importance. Ideally one would want the best graphics, best story, best gameplay, best characters, and so on.

 

[Glaurung]

The day they release a graphically good game with a bad story they won't sell anything and they know it. I think they know they have to be extra careful with that.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

I for one don't think graphics are the reason to remake VII, just an added bonus that needs to be implemented. First and foremost would be the connecting thread that brings the entire Compilation into one cohesive story that makes more sense. I don't think they'll iron every story issue, just work on some of them. Second, I want to see the same game redone, not re-released as others have said. Add some elements, maybe remove others, but just bring the fans something new and interesting in the fantasy world they know from before. Third, I wanna see how Steve Burton will act in the Wall Market scene

Also, while not related to a remake per se, I resent how so many fans seem to hate on the newer games in the FF series, ranting about how much they suck using reasons like 'FFIV did it better!' If you're old school that's one thing, but blatantly hating on anything new is another.

 

[Glaurung]

To appreaciate the old-school rpgs doesn't mean that one hates the new ones, at least in my case. Of course not every entry will please every fan.

Uhm, yes, Steve Burton with a high pitched voice is something to look forward to

 

[Mantichorus]

I wasn't saying that graphics aren't important. That would be pretty silly, given that we're talking about a visual medium. What I meant to say was that, as graphics become more and more spectacular, it's possible for other aspects to get relegated to secondary importance. Ideally one would want the best graphics, best story, best gameplay, best characters, and so on.

Ideally, yes. In reality... I doubt it.

I for one don't think graphics are the reason to remake VII, just an added bonus that needs to be implemented. First and foremost would be the connecting thread that brings the entire Compilation into one cohesive story that makes more sense. I don't think they'll iron every story issue, just work on some of them. Second, I want to see the same game redone, not re-released as others have said. Add some elements, maybe remove others, but just bring the fans something new and interesting in the fantasy world they know from before. Third, I wanna see how Steve Burton will act in the Wall Market scene

...That third one is the best reason NOT to remake it, IMHO.

I think the main problem with making the Compilation make sense is Cloud's mental state until about halfway through FFVII. In a twisted way... things have to not make sense until Cloud rediscovers who he really is.