Significant Differences Between English and Japanese

a_apple 2.0

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a_apple
It would have been more believable if Cloud was hanging around in Sector 7 for a month or something so Tifas and Avalanche decision to hire him would made sense when it became clear Cloud is trustworthy. It's just weird that Tifa would tell him in the same day they saw each other again after 7 years of zero contact that she is with Avalanche, it would be insanely irresponsible of her to tell a dude who claims he was a member of Shinra all their Avalanche secrets and immediately make him a part of their operation. Like why did Barret and the rest even agree to this :mon:
 

Odysseus

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Ody
He was already claiming to be an ex-shinra merc when he met Tifa, because that's what Zack was planning on doing once he got to Midgar. Tifa got him the job because he was acting strangely and she wanted to keep an eye on him. Barret presumably went along with it because he trusted Tifa, but he still didn't trust Cloud very much during the mission.
 

a_apple 2.0

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a_apple
He was already claiming to be an ex-shinra merc when he met Tifa, because that's what Zack was planning on doing once he got to Midgar. Tifa got him the job because he was acting strangely and she wanted to keep an eye on him. Barret presumably went along with it because he trusted Tifa, but he still didn't trust Cloud very much during the mission.
even more of a reason to wait before telling him anything about Avalanche imo
she didn't see the guy for 7 years and he acts weird af why recruit someone like that for a high profile mission after seeing him again for one day like bruh that's just bad writing
 
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Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Interesting, since the World Preview (and Remake Ultimania IIRC) indicates that the Compilation dates of Zack’s death being in September and Tifa finding Cloud some time after October 5 (the World Preview doesn’t say whether the bombing mission still takes place in December or not), that means the Remake is continuing with the notion that Cloud was wandering around the slums in his messed up state for a month or so (or more).
 
I'm still sad that he isn't living in 7th Heaven. I always headcanoned 7th Heaven as belonging to Tifa, but if it belongs to anyone, it probably belongs to Barret, and she just works there.
 

a_apple

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orange
I'm still sad that he isn't living in 7th Heaven. I always headcanoned 7th Heaven as belonging to Tifa, but if it belongs to anyone, it probably belongs to Barret, and she just works there.
i think he spend in the og a month or so in sector 7 around Tifa and later wanted to leave which always seemed kinda cold, so I assume that's why they might wanted to change some things up, even tho bigger picture wise that scenario was much better
 

Torrie

astray ay-ay-ay
Guys, let's not digress, please. This matter has already been discussed, and in short, we don't know how long Tifa had been watching over Cloud in the OG before the bombing mission began.

Meanwhile, I've found a thread about the differences between the German and the English versions, done by a German fan, not in chronological order and heavily Cloti-oriented.

 

ultima786

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ultima
Can anyone help with the Chapter 18 Description "The Turning Point" in japanese or any other language? This is what it says in english:

In the world beyond, Sephiroth shows Cloud a vision of the planet seven seconds before its demise. Having strayed from the course destiny set for them, they strike out on a path toward an unknown future.
 

ultima786

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ultima
i think @The Twilight Mexican has that in japanese? (because i gave him a screenshot but i'm not sure if i still have it)
I am asking because if this reads as it sounds, that could mean the entire "Turning Point" and after "Destiny's Crossroads" was just a bunch of imagery/visions/illusions created by Jenova-Whisper-Roth. Meaning, it's not really happening except perhaps in some sort of spiritual, other-worldly way. This fits well since Jenova can have people hallucinate (experience) entire environments, as witnessed during the Jenova fight in President Shinra's office.
 

ultima786

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ultima
The ever lovely hito (@Strangelove ) gots us covered:

LhImz14.jpg


Transcription and mi traducción:

---
特異点
「運命の分かれ道」、その向こう側の世界でセフィロスから星の行く末を告げられるクラウド。
終末の7秒前の世界。
星を巡る人々の運命は敷かれたレールを外れまだ存在しない未来へと向かい、走り始める——。

Singularity
In the world on the other side of the "Crossroads of Destiny," Cloud hears from Sephiroth about the planet's end.

Seven seconds before the end of the world.

The fate of the people around the planet diverges from the rails already laid, and begins racing towards a future that does not yet exist ...
---

Interesting. This is a little different but similar enough. Would ya'll agree that this seems to imply that what we are experiencing after the "Turning Point" are visions?

Maybe the Whisper Portal was a portal not to another realm, but another possibility that the Whispers could envision? Or Sephiroth could envision? Something something? Bottom line is: it wasn't another world, but something akin to a memory or a possibility.
 

The Twilight Mexican

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TresDias
Interesting. This is a little different but similar enough. Would ya'll agree that this seems to imply that what we are experiencing after the "Turning Point" are visions?

Maybe the Whisper Portal was a portal not to another realm, but another possibility that the Whispers could envision? Or Sephiroth could envision? Something something? Bottom line is: it wasn't another world, but something akin to a memory or a possibility.
If you're referring to just the post-final battle scene with Cloud and Sephiroth, then possibly. If you're referring to the entirety of everything that happened in the Singularity, then no.

The effects of the battle there clearly impact the surrounding world: the Whispers are destroyed, gold sparkles rain down on Midgar -- and even across time/space, Zack survives a battle he shouldn't have and is blown off his feet by the exploding dome of Whispers. It was a real battle with real consequences.
 
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ultima786

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ultima
The effects of the battle there clearly impact the surrounding world: the Whispers are destroyed, gold sparkles rain down on Midgar -- and even across time/space, Zack survives a battle he shouldn't have and is blown off his feet by the exploding dome of Whispers. It was a real battle with real consequences
I agree with this. It's real. But it's taking place in a "otherworldly" sort of way. Just like the Jenova battle. This may be mundane and obvious but I think this is important to help keep the story grounded. Weird crazy shite happens through lifestream shenanigans that are ephemeral. The tossing of buildings and such is symbolic of a spiritual battle of wills. A spiritual battle still hurts and stuff, but not in the same way.

All this spiritual lifestream battle stuff does impact the physical world (the surface of gaia) but there won't be the same antics nor rules on that physical world.

I am more and more believing that the entirety of this section was akin to The Cloud vs Shirtless Sephiroth in OG: spiritual and ephemeral and perhaps even symbolic. Real, but in a more profound way.
 

The Twilight Mexican

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TresDias
I mean, probably. I always assumed the party was meant to seem, at the very least, physically enhanced by being there, given the increasingly superhuman feats they were performing once they were there.
 

Fiz

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Eh?
I agree with this. It's real. But it's taking place in a "otherworldly" sort of way. Just like the Jenova battle. This may be mundane and obvious but I think this is important to help keep the story grounded. Weird crazy shite happens through lifestream shenanigans that are ephemeral. The tossing of buildings and such is symbolic of a spiritual battle of wills. A spiritual battle still hurts and stuff, but not in the same way.

All this spiritual lifestream battle stuff does impact the physical world (the surface of gaia) but there won't be the same antics nor rules on that physical world.

I am more and more believing that the entirety of this section was akin to The Cloud vs Shirtless Sephiroth in OG: spiritual and ephemeral and perhaps even symbolic. Real, but in a more profound way.

There was a good discussion on YouTube which explained it really well (not crackpot theories either, just processing what we saw and can find out). I think it's on the right track.

Basically, the lifestream doesn't have a concept of space or time, it exists across all time, it's otherworldly and celestial. The singularity is outside of time. The whispers were flying off in the past and present (and across dimensions/timelines if they should exist) to deal with this huge event happening in one moment, fighting within the singularity - basically their domain outside of space and time.

One point they brought up is this idea of multiple dimensions and timelines, that they are assuming there are multiple timelines for now but it isn't guaranteed, if the lifestream exists across space/time then it could theoretically be one timeline thats being messed with. Because the lifestream is a soft magic system you don't need to understand it, it's beyond human comprehension. That kind of thing, and the lifestream could have a mechanism to "iron out the kinks".


Anyway, their overall view of what's happened is that Sephiroph is the Sephiroph from after the compilation. Whatever was going on in the lifestream between him, Aerith and the team reached checkmate. Max said that he thinks Sephiroph became extremely powerful, pretty much as close to a god as he could become and could manipulate, or move, through time.

So, came back to the beginning and has a plan. Aerith recieved knowledge of the future somehow at around the same time. Sephiroph first acted to prevent Cloud from encountering Aerith, then trying to stop the group from continuing forward (stopping them even going on their journey), then tried to get them to destroy destiny so that he can follow a different path to a win. They theorise that he knows everything from here to post compilation. Simple enough (ish).

Sephiroph opened a gate to the singularity, Aerith considered whether to follow fate (the OG path that she knows will save the planet) and decided to take Sephiroph up (challenge him, for a potentially better future), and did *something* to the portal before entering. One thing that's unknown is Aerith, they agreed that she knows far more than she's letting on and as such we should be aware that she could be partly or even fully aware. The whole thing may be a "game of chess" between the two within the OG's events.

The final battle existed within the singularity, so the stuff we saw in there wasn't happening in the real world, and things were being conjured up. But, the battle itself was real. One thing of note is that - potentially Sephiroph had gained control of certain amounts of the lifestream at this point and potentially the Harbinger was more connected to Sephiroph than was being shown. What Aerith did is an unknown, potentially what she did was related to Zack and the others surviving (throwing unknowns into the mix?).



Hopefully that all makes sense now. lol
 
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Keyblade

Lv. 1 Adventurer
This thread has been a fascinating read for me. While I generally like the English localization, I do have a couple of issues. Some lines just sound awkward and learning about the Japanese meanings in this thread made me understand why. I also didn't quite like the use of the phrase "for a minute" like when Cloud says he'll do mercenary work "for a minute." I'm not sure if that's some kind of new/modern slang? It didn't make sense to me in the context.

I kind of wish SE had offered dual English translations the way Yakuza 7 does. The localizers produced two English scripts: one for English audio and a separate one for Japanese audio. For me personally, it would have been really interesting to see what other changes were made between languages.
 

Tifa Crystal

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Freya
I played the game with English audio and Italian subtitles, but it was very confusing, since the audio and the subtitles didn't match. I'd love to know Japanese and read the original dialogues, because I think that a faithful translation should be a must. I hate when they change meaning!
Speaking about Tifa's voice, I partially agree with you tobakudan, I would've expected a less mature voice for this character. However, it conveys her a motherly tone which has a lot of sense to me if I consider her role and personality. In general, they did a good job with the English voice acting.
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
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Eh?
I'm a bit of a language nerd, the two languages aside from English I would claim to actually be able to know are Spanish and Japanese, at a push French (to read and write), but I haven't used it in so long that I have zero confidence with it. But, I also technically know several to lower levels. I'm also one of the organisers in a large language exchange group so I have a lot of exposure to a lot of people who also study many languages. So, I think I can give good advice on this.

If you guys seriously want to learn Japanese, then I would advise not doing that. Like, at all. This stands for any language, not just Japanese, but especially with a language like Japanese. Subtitles in your own language are good for saying "its pure therefore good" and nothing more. I'm going to stress this a little because wanting to learn Japanese through Japanese entertainment with English subtitles is a thing thats pretty unique to Japanese and definitely causes newcomers harm.


I've translated music videos, frequently listen to and watch foreign media in other languages. The only time I've found subtitles to be helpful have been when they're in that medias native language, English subtitles have never helped one jot. If anything, they've become a hindrance.

I also don't think I've ever seen someone who is good in a foreign language - who has studied that language as an adult (i.e. not growing up in a multilingual environment or learned it as a kid) advise using subtitles in your own language - whether those subs are faithful or otherwise. Consistently, just about everyone I know, have used subtitles in the language they're studying almost exclusively - unless they're watching something just to chill out or are basically fluent in the language and use them as a fallback in case they zone out - but even then, they aren't learning anything.

Firstly, if the subtitles are in anything other than the medias native language then they aren't going to match, not only with word order but with the kinds of words that are used in certain situations not matching between languages - which causes big problems, and with forms of expression differing between languages. Even when you're confident in a language you'll get a lot of "I understand all the words but have no idea what you said" situations. So, if the subs are in English you're going to find yourself even more confused or doubting the subs.

Secondly, if it's a direct translation the output is often garbage that is more difficult to understand than a localisation that's keeping the intent intact.

The biggest problem is that when the subs are in English, if you don't understand stuff (and that's going to be a lot), then you're going to have real trouble figuring out what was said. If the subs are in the native language, then you can pause, read, look up, translate, note the new vocab, look up what the hell is going on with that weird grammar or phrase, ask questions of people, and start to understand it. 90% of learning another language is doing just that.


So, if you want to learn Japanese, and use entertainment media to learn, then you want the subtitles in Japanese, and be prepared not to enjoy the content until you're at least intermediate level. If you have English subs, you'll get nothing out of it I'm afraid.


I'd also recommend avoiding content like this until you're able to understand enough that subs exist as a fallback, and generally to be careful with anything that might sound a little bit anime. Something people overlook with Japanese, when people say they want to learn Japanese through anime-ish entertainment is no different to someone saying that they want to learn Spanish through Reggaeton. One can enjoy Reggaeton, but one does not try to understand the Reggaeton until they understand the Reggaeton. If you get what I mean.


I mean, you could understand FFVII more or less in a year or two. Start with Genki or Japanese From Zero (both very good books). Genki Vol1 / JFZ 1, 2 and 3 are pretty much covering the same content. The Japanese From Zero YouTube channel is a treasure trove. Then, read short stories.

As soon as you're able to understand basic sentences, you want to download HelloTalk - this is an app that allows you to talk to native speakers and help each other. It also has study groups, teachers and loads of other stuff. It's probably the best way to learn a language quickly because you're using the language and meeting people who speak that language natively. HelloTalk is the best one, there is another called Tandem, but that was just people trying to hit on me, I know others (women) who amassed enough dick pics to start a porn site, so I wouldn't recommend Tandem. Unless you want a desperado GF/BF or to start a porn site.
 
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Tifa Crystal

Rookie Adventurer
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Freya
Wow Fiz, thanks a lot for your advices! I agree with you, having an intermediate level of Japanese is really hard. A friend of mine studied it for three years at the university and she said she had reached the level of a 6 years old kid. I wish I could understand it a bit more, with a direct translation from Japanese. Passing through English would just be more confusing, not to mention the fact that, as you said, there are many problems given by the huge distance between West and East linguistic codes.
Anyway, I'll follow your suggestion with HelloTalk, thanks again!
 
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