Similarities Between Genesis and Kuja

[Celes Chere]

I just don't find him childish.

I hope you're not serious. Kuja GIGGLED while he killed people.

 

[Ⓐaron]

It says it...a lot. You shouldn't even have to look too hard to find it anywhere, whether it be from a wiki, a script, or just a save while you're in Bran Bal.

And no, Kuja wasn't the prototype, at least not for Genomes. (he was in relation to Zidane). Garland was making Genomes for quite some time (thousands of years?) before the 20 odd years Kuja was made.

well like I said, it's been about five years since I played the game.

His actions are those of a selfish person, nothing more or less.

It is evident from Kuja's quote, that I've posted twice now, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. If he failed or tried something on his own, as seen in Alexandria, Garland could kill him. If he succeeded, well he died. His soul went to whoever it belonged to or whatever.
So if your defintion of spoiled is "you fucking die if you do your job right", then I guess he is spoiled.

And really I wonder how people here would react if God came down, said "you are worthless. I'll make someoen better than you thus giving you no reason to even exist". I'm sure we'd all turn out o be well-adjusted. I mean sure there's nothing saying Garland used those words but there's no proof he pampered Kuja like so many people here claim.

There's also no proof he didn't, and quite a lot of hints that suggest he did. Whenever he asked for anything from Garland, he received it. Sure, he didn't get immortality, but that's the first thing Garland didn't give him. So yeah, your analogy isn't really fair. It would be more like if God gave me everything I wanted for years and years, then suddenly chose to kill me. And yeah, that would be a cunt thing to do, but shit happens. I wouldn't react by trying to kill everyone in the world, because I'm not childish.

 

[Max Payne]

And really I wonder how people here would react if God came down, said "you are worthless. I'll make someoen better than you thus giving you no reason to even exist". I'm sure we'd all turn out o be well-adjusted.

I wouldn't react so much to the words than I word to some supreme being taking the time to tell me how worthless I am.

Otherwise I already assume such, there's always someone better than you out there. That's nature. We'll all worthless in the grand scheme of things anyway. The trick is not to care much and move on.

 

[Nikkolas]

Garland was always going to kill him. Did you not read the quote? It's part of Terra's resurrection ie. what Kuja was created to assist. If Kuja helps in it and it comes about, he loses his soul.

And what did Kuja ask for exactly? I can't recall a single line of dialogue in the game between the two except when Kuja arrives to kill Garland and the others.

If you assume he asked for the Invincible and the Desert Palace, then that's your assumption. And even if he did ask, it was again only to assist in hiw own end.

Otherwise I already assume such, there's always someone better than you out there. That's nature. We'll all worthless in the grand scheme of things anyway. The trick is not to care much and move on.

It's different for an artificial lifeform obviously.
The Angels of Death were created for one purpose. It is purpose that created us...purpose that connects us. Blah blah blah Smith reference.

Kuja lost his sole purpose for existing the moment Zidane was born and was rendered irrelevant in the universe.

 

[ForceStealer]

He only taunted Sephiroth with being a monster thereby leading to Sephiroth's insanity and the death of countless people.
Simple jealousy...yep

Genesis can't be held responsible for Sephiroth's actions. Indeed, he didn't want Sephiroth to go nuts, he wanted him to help him. Taunting him was him indulging his jealousy, and it may have been a bad idea, but you can't pin Sephiroth's massacre on Genesis.

 

[Nikkolas]

Genesis can't be held responsible for Sephiroth's actions. Indeed, he didn't want Sephiroth to go nuts, he wanted him to help him. Taunting him was him indulging his jealousy, and it may have been a bad idea, but you can't pin Sephiroth's massacre on Genesis.

How does telling someone they were created from some freak some scientists found and that they are the perfect monster help them? It be more help if Genesis had never said anything.
Though that might just mean Sephiroth has to go reading again like he did originally before the CC retcon.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If you assume he asked for the Invincible and the Desert Palace, then that's your assumption. And even if he did ask, it was again only to assist in hiw own end.

Here you go, take this massive battle ship and this gigantic mansion and a shitload of money and go and play around in the largest auction house on Gaia. But hey, it's not like I'm spoiling you or anything because the game never explicitly shows you asking for any of this stuff, even though just about everyone on the planet would do plenty of illegal things to get hold of any of this stuff. Oh, and because giving this stuff loosely serves my interests, which I'm conveniently not telling you right now in order to keep you loyal to me. Yep, definitely not spoiling you.

How does telling someone they were created from some freak some scientists found and that they are the perfect monster help them? It be more help if Genesis had never said anything.

It might be, but at a guess, I'd suspect Genesis had no way of knowing what Jenova's true nature was, and thus little way of suspecting what kind of mental state Sephiroth was in. Though, as I haven't played Crisis Core, this is a completely random guess, but I wouldn't expect Shinra to tell people infused with Jenova cells that her nature was that of a remorseless killer

 

[Nikkolas]

Meh. This topic is endless.
I don't think he's spoiled and I don't see why anyone would think he is. But you all apparently do. So...to each their own. *handshake*

 

[ForceStealer]

How does telling someone they were created from some freak some scientists found and that they are the perfect monster help them? It be more help if Genesis had never said anything.

You misread me, I didn't say Genesis wanted to help Sephiroth, I said Genesis wanted Sephiroth to help him (Genesis)

 

[Nikkolas]

Oh, sorry. Still I don't think taunting is likely to make someone help you

 

[ForceStealer]

Well, exactly, that's the point. Genesis should have feigned helpfulness, but he couldn't resist getting jabs in at the man he's been jealous of all this time.

 

[Munatik]

Even if Kuja did get anything he wanted from Garland, all this would bring him would be his own death with the resurrection of Terra. Saying he was spoiled is like saying Hansel and Gretel were spoiled by the witch who wanted to eat them because she gave them whatever they wanted.

This response does nothing to refute the fact that Kuja did get everything he wanted, and was spoiled because of it. You merely pointed the circumstances for why Kuja rebelled. His inevitable death and the goal to resurrect Terra does not say anything about Kuja nor does it somehow contradict his spoiling by Garland.

This is why your analogy is not very compelling. By your logic, the witch's scheme to fatten Hansel and Gretel for her to kill and eat is says something about children's character. You can probably see where that does not make sense. The witch also did not produce Hansel and Gretel, nor was she their longtime benefactor, and thus had no hand in shaping the kids' character before they fell into her trap. Thirdly, just because the witch played on their greed and naivete doesn't mean that the kids weren't spoiled beforehand, but we don't really know because that informaton would not have been relevant to the story.

Kuja's spoiling, on the other hand, is revealed and relevant because it goes a long way in explaining his attitude and behavior.

Again I don't deny Kuja was being selfish. I just think his feeling of self-importance was to mask his own vulnerability and not because he was spoiled.
Kuja was a very human and sympathetic character for me.

Fair enough, and let me be fair here: I find Kuja's character to be human and sympathetic as well. It's like what Zidane said--it could have just as easily been him!

Edit: Crap. Seems like I was late to the party. I'll stfu nao

 

[Nikkolas]

Eh no worries. Always nice to discuss Kuja with fellow Kuja fans even if we have somewhat different ideas of the characters. Though it seems we all agree he was human and sympathetic. The reason i got involved in that debate to begin with was it seemed like people here were dismissing Kuja's character as some sort of dumb brat. But that isn't the case so thee is no real argument. anymore.

 

[Munatik]

Eh no worries. Always nice to discuss Kuja with fellow Kuja fans even if we have somewhat different ideas of the characters. Though it seems we all agree he was human and sympathetic. The reason i got involved in that debate to begin with was it seemed like people here were dismissing Kuja's character as some sort of dumb brat. But that isn't the case so thee is no real argument. anymore.

I agree, and yeah, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was trying to rag on Kuja by calling him spoiled.

On the bright side, your topic triggered a pretty good debate anyway, and that always rawks.

 

[OWA-2]

Well, exactly, that's the point. Genesis should have feigned helpfulness, but he couldn't resist getting jabs in at the man he's been jealous of all this time.

The way I understood that scene, Genesis was just trying to show Sephiroth that he was a monster like him(remember that Genesis saw himself as a monster).
I think that was the way of Genesis saying "We are both monsters, so let's stop fighting each other, and stick together against Shinra."

 

[megas_sephiroth]

The way I understood that scene, Genesis was just trying to show Sephiroth that he was a monster like him(remember that Genesis saw himself as a monster).
I think that was the way of Genesis saying "We are both monsters, so let's stop fighting each other, and stick together against Shinra."

Watching that scene I always thought Genesis just couldn't control himself and actually took the chance to mock Sephiroth. It wasn't very smart, though, since he needed Sephiroth's help to, you know, stop rotting alive...

 

[ForceStealer]

Exactly, his very intention was to tell Sephiroth that they were alike. But he couldn't resist the opportunity to get his jabs in, which was stupid. Granted, I don't think Sephiroth would have helped him anyway.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Exactly, his very intention was to tell Sephiroth that they were alike. But he couldn't resist the opportunity to get his jabs in, which was stupid. Granted, I don't think Sephiroth would have helped him anyway.

I don't know, he was still sane at that point, maybe if Genesis hadn't taken the chance to confuse him even more than he already was, Sephiroth would have helped him.

 

[Dark and Divine]

I don't know, he was still sane at that point, maybe if Genesis hadn't taken the chance to confuse him even more than he already was, Sephiroth would have helped him.

I don't think he would, not after Genesis poiting his sword at Sephiroth's head.

Even if Genesis restrained himself of his mockering towards Sephiroth, i think that the outcome would be the same.

 

[Nikkolas]

Ya know at the idea of someone needing help from somebody else but going the dumbass route of taunting them instead, I felt something stir in my memory. Then it hit me..Voldemort's locket horcrux in Book 7.
"So Ron..don't stab me. Oh by the way you are pathetic and no woman would ever want you. Oh...I didn't mean it in that way...don't stab meee!"

 

[muchmoxie]

Also, they're both girly men.

I swear, I thought Kuja was a girl when I saw his body.

 

[ForceStealer]

Everyone did, he's a girly character among a series of girly characters. Honestly, I think its the clothes. He shows so much skin but covers his waist and his chest, its that which I think really makes people mistake him for a girl.

And look at those hips!

 

[Nikkolas]

The face is masculine though. Plus here's the ral giveaway it's a he.

Before Kuja is named, he's called the Mystery Man.

 

[ForceStealer]

I always knew it was a he, but I can totally understand why someone who looked at a picture of him would think 'girl.'

 

[Cthulhu]

It's a trap, actually. Besides, he's not called 'mystery man' for a while after you see it.

And his face masculine? Pah no. Besides, based on what, three vertices in PSX quality?