Something's wrong, and I'm gonna say it - FFXIII Spoilers abound

[Makoeyes987]

Wow. I really want to see that article. Yes, please show it.

If that's the case, and then they don't deliver what they promise, this lack of content will be even more egregious. Wtf.

 

[Arianna]

Sure. I'm going to fish it out now, give me a few minutes. Hopefully I can get it to be comprehended, not squished and stripped.

I did read the Wired article. Eh - I see what you're complaining about. I don't like the sound of this either. The only thing I could think of is that the storyline is a tutorial run, and the side quests are more the real deal ?!?

Okay, I go to do some fishing and scanning. I'll try to quote (with names) articles too.

According to the this article and the interviews done:

I ask one more question before we move on: how much of the game will take place on Cocoon and how much of it will take place on Pulse?

Their answer: "It's entirely up to the player. If someone wants to go through the story and get to the ending right away, they'll probably spend the bulk of their time on Cocoon. But if they want to get into all the battles, collect all the items, and work on leveling up, they'll probably spend a good portion of time on Pulse, too."

From page 49 of Playstation: The Official Magazine's August 2009 issue. By Teresa Dun.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

From what I've heard, FFXIII seems to be a mostly super linear movie where you press buttons every now and then, and fuck that. Some people don't really seem to understand that a game is a game. If they want to tell a story by sacrificing the gameplay, just make a movie. But I want to play a game, I shouldn't have to withstand or 'settle' with meager gameplay elements because you're taking away the prime experience.

Who else thinks Mog has now successfully assumed the role of the forum's Resident Angry Black Man?

Snow looks awesome, that's all I'm really excited about.

Snow is awesome. Anybody who loved Zack, you're going to like this guy even more.

Anyway, with the whole sitting back and watching thing- that makes it sound like Dirge. Is it worse than THAT?

I wouldn't say so, no. There's a good balance of gameplay and cutscenes.

Yes. And it will probably happen with every Final Fantasy that is going to be released.

I think we should really just have faith in the creators. They've been making these games for decades now, and they've yet to make one that was shit to everyone. Give SE a chance to experiment; if this game is really as bad as some of you are convinced it is, they won't make the same mistake the next time around.

Hear hear!

It's different. There's no denying that. But that's always worked to improve FF before, and despite what's not here this time around, what is there is still pretty fucking awesome -- despite a few questionable choices with the plot, but that's another topic.

This is some of the best character interaction I've seen out of FF yet. As someone who does pay more attention to story than anything else, I may not be the best person to ask for many of you, but I can tell you that I think they did well.

Besides, there's going to be that one side-quest, for sure. If anything like FFXII's Marks, it should be satisfying for everybody.

This is like FFX except kinda worst.

Personally, I loved the way FFX's world was set up and explored. XD The pilgrimage approach made for a great story.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sure. I'm going to fish it out now, give me a few minutes. Hopefully I can get it to be comprehended, not squished and stripped.

I did read the Wired article. Eh - I see what you're complaining about. I don't like the sound of this either. The only thing I could think of is that the storyline is a tutorial run, and the side quests are more the real deal ?!?

Okay, I go to do some fishing and scanning. I'll try to quote (with names) articles too.

According to the this article and the interviews done:

I ask one more question before we move on: how much of the game will take place on Cocoon and how much of it will take place on Pulse?

Their answer: "It's entirely up to the player. If someone wants to go through the story and get to the ending right away, they'll probably spend the bulk of their time on Cocoon. But if they want to get into all the battles, collect all the items, and work on leveling up, they'll probably spend a good portion of time on Pulse, too."

From page 49 of Playstation: The Official Magazine's August 2009 issue. By Teresa Dun.

See, that quote is misleading. They make it sound like the player is in control of how much exploration and interaction with the world there is, when going by the reviews and player commentary, that's not the case.

Is there anymore? Thanks again for that info. That's really interesting.

This is some of the best character interaction I've seen out of FF yet. As someone who does pay more attention to story than anything else, I may not be the best person to ask for many of you, but I can tell you that I think they did well.

That's good Tres, but good gameplay and plot are not mutually exclusive.

That does not work as a justification or explanation as to why they've gutted the RPG experience. There's no fucking reason at all for them to have to sacrifice gameplay for story. Look at Uncharted 2 as a prime example. FFVII as another.

You don't just fucking watch the story unfold, you DO it. As in you're participating. The crazy motorcycle chase in FFVII is one example of what I'm talking about. Instead of watching a fucking cutscene of Cloud and the others escape in a badass highway chase, you DO IT. It's a mini-game, and its fun as hell. Do you see what I'm saying?

Besides, there's going to be that one side-quest, for sure. If anything like FFXII's Marks, it should be satisfying for everybody.

If that's all it has, its not enough. One sidequest is not enough. It doesn't make up for all the actual PLAYER immersion that is needed for a game to be good.

Holy shit, it's like the developers just completely forgot about the actual PLAYER doing something and interacting with the game. That's all well and good the characters get to interact and experience an interesting story, but it sure would be nice if we got to as well. It would be lovely if I got to be apart of the story and interact with FFXIII's world, instead of looking on while all the cool characters get to have fun, and I just hit buttons and watch them do shit.

Personally, I loved the way FFX's world was set up and explored. XD The pilgrimage approach made for a great story.

It worked in hindsight, but there's no reason at all for there to have not been more exploration. There is no need to sacrifice anything. They could've had the pilgrimage approach while also letting you explore and see more of Spira.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Drake Clawfang mentioned that ALL FFs ARE DIFFERENT ANYWAYS, and I have to agree. Besides, doesn't this shitstorm happen with every FF released ever?

High-five.

See, that quote is misleading. They make it sound like the player is in control of how much exploration and interaction with the world there is, when going by the reviews and player commentary, that's not the case.

Or, is it the player's commentary and the reviews that are misleading? After all...

If someone wants to go through the story and get to the ending right away, they'll probably spend the bulk of their time on Cocoon.

How many players are doing exactly this?

 

[shenron118]

I'm sure there are people here who could care less about what Kotaku says, but I'll link this anyway.

http://kotaku.com/5433455/final-fantasy-xiii-impressions-15-years-later-25-hours-in?skyline=true&s=x

I like this article because it's not written from the perspective of a game critic; it's written from the perspective of a consumer/gamer like us. The author touches on just about every problem brought up in this thread, so if you want another opinion, it's right there.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, that Kotaku article is pretty dead on in regards to summing up my unhappiness. And that's pretty damn shocking since I find Kotaku cynical and kinda annoying most of the time. Very well written, and I seriously doubt all these players are misplaying the game. I find it highly unlikely there's some vast misrepresentation or ignoring of elements of this game.

If the game keeps pushing you forward and constantly blocking the way you can turn back and explore, something's seriously up.

 

[Arianna]

See, that quote is misleading. They make it sound like the player is in control of how much exploration and interaction with the world there is, when going by the reviews and player commentary, that's not the case. ... Is there anymore? Thanks again for that info. That's really interesting.

I agree, that quote doesn't specifically say there are side quests and how many hours worth of game play, etc. All I can say is that when I read it, I instantly thought of side quests and extras to the main game. I have to admit, I could be horribly mistaken and have totally missed the mark on comprehending those words... ???

All else I can say is that this article (by Ms. Dun) keeps claiming there are a lot of areas to Cocoon and Pulse. *shrug* I don't know what to make of this news coming out of critics and gamers (if not gamer-critics! ). The only other guess I could make, from my observations, is that Japan got a not-quite-finished version of the game...!

I'm finished copying ('cause it would take forever to scan from the magazine, due to my scanner's programming (well, in truth, lack there of) and the fact that to make good pictures, I needed to hold down the lid. I will have it uploaded later today; sorry for the wait. The article I'll be getting up first is the Playstation article by Teresa Dun, the one quoted.

 

[shenron118]

If the game keeps pushing you forward and constantly blocking the way you can turn back and explore, something's seriously up.

The reason the game's hella linear is kinda justified by the plot, isn't it? You're being hunted by nearly everyone in the world; you can't just backtrack or spend hours lolly gagging in a town, if you're constantly being chased.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That's good Tres, but good gameplay and plot are not mutually exclusive.

I hear ya. I'm just saying that what is there is pretty damn awesome. XD

That does not work as a justification or explanation as to why they've gutted the RPG experience. There's no fucking reason at all for them to have to sacrifice gameplay for story. Look at Uncharted 2 as a prime example. FFVII as another.

You know, Dissidia didn't let you explore the world at all.

I agree with your point. I just feel that -- even in the event that the hunts don't fill the void -- there's a good story to be experienced that will make it worthwhile.

You don't just fucking watch the story unfold, you DO it. As in you're participating. The crazy motorcycle chase in FFVII is one example of what I'm talking about. Instead of watching a fucking cutscene of Cloud and the others escape in a badass highway chase, you DO IT. It's a mini-game, and its fun as hell. Do you see what I'm saying?

Of course. There's occasions where this hasn't been done when it should have -- for example, the invasion of Midgar in Dirge of Cerberus. I can even think of some examples in FFXIII -- one not unlike the highway chase from VII, actually.

Really, I agree with you that there's more that should have been done. I'm just more forgiving when it comes to the gameplay in an FF.

Hell, if I crawled through the drudgery that was FFIX to see its story -- one that wasn't even all that good, in my opinion, and with a lame cast of characters -- then I can forgive FFXIII its lack of immersive gameplay.

It worked in hindsight, but there's no reason at all for there to have not been more exploration. There is no need to sacrifice anything. They could've had the pilgrimage approach while also letting you explore and see more of Spira.

Sure, they could have, but -- as you said -- it worked out well regardless.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The reason the game's hella linear is kinda justified by the plot, isn't it? You're being hunted by nearly everyone in the world; you can't just backtrack or spend hours lolly gagging in a town, if you're constantly being chased.

See, that's not true. I find that as a very weak excuse.

I'm going to refer you to FFVII and FFVI's plot. You were hunted, and on the run from Shinra, and the Gesthalian Empire respectively. And you STILL were given the freedom to explore and actually IMMERSE yourself into the world of each FF. Period.

Just because you're being pursued in the plot, doesn't mean you don't have any way of exploring or interacting with the actual game itself. An example that's not Final Fantasy would be Resident Evil 4.

No part of the storyline justifies making FFXIII a romp through one killing tube to the next.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I hear ya. I'm just saying that what is there is pretty damn awesome. XD

Okay, you're trying to be positive and see the glass as half full. I getcha.

Problem is, its only 1/4th full.

You know, Dissidia didn't let you explore the world at all.

I agree with your point. I just feel that -- even in the event that the hunts don't fill the void -- there's a good story to be experienced that will make it worthwhile.

You're a cheeky bugger, aren't you?

And well that's good. Glad there's a wonderful story. Guess I'll just youtube it or rent it then. Since apparently the player isn't good enough in terms of interacting with the super sexy characters.

Of course. There's occasions where this hasn't been done when it should have -- for example, the invasion of Midgar in Dirge of Cerberus. I can even think of some examples in FFXIII -- one not unlike the highway chase from VII, actually.

Really, I agree with you that there's more that should have been done. I'm just more forgiving when it comes to the gameplay in an FF.

You get too forgiving and you're gonna end up with shit on your plate when you're expecting your order of a porter house steak. Being forgiving is one thing, but there's a limit on how much should be forgiven. Why the fuck should they not be called out for their bullshit and suffer the consequences?

The reason I believe CC was so much better as a game than DC, was because the Compilation of FFVII's development team got such a slap in the face with DC's reception. It wasn't nearly as positive as they expected. And they knew they had to do something for its US release.

Hell, if I crawled through the drudgery that was FFIX to see its story -- one that wasn't even all that good, in my opinion, and with a lame cast of characters -- then I can forgive FFXIII its lack of immersive gameplay.

FFIX had a few problems with its gameplay (its battle system being an example) but I've got to wholeheartedly disagree with you saying its story wasn't that good. It was one of the best, I'd say. Very emotional and balanced in terms of its presentation.

And how was it not immersive?

And really no. You shouldn't forgive FFXIII. In fact, you should be even more upset considering from your perspective, they didn't learn from their mistake regarding FFIX.

You think they're gonna learn anything and make better games if everyone keeps forgiving them and not calling them out if they make a mistake?

 

[shenron118]

You think they're gonna learn anything and make better games if everyone keeps forgiving them and not calling them out if they make a mistake?

I still think it's a bit too early to consider it a mistake. We can read all the reviews we want, but we'll never know how we feel about a game until we play it.

I'll admit I'm excited about FFXIII, but I plan on playing it with an open mind. I'm not going to let someone ruin a game for me before I even get my hands on it.

 

[Winter]

You know, sometimes it's not just about improving, sometimes it's just about personal preference.

I never even finished IX, but I loved VIII. I LOVED X, but couldn't even be bothered to buy XII (I will give it another try soon, it just didn't draw me in at all).

It's not like I can be mad at Square for me not liking IX or XII, because between them was X, which I found to be VERY successful (in entertaining me, haha).

I guess my point is just "they're all different". If it's badly received (which it very well could be, if it's as linear as some people claim it is I know some people will be EXTREMELY disappointed), Square will change their ways for the next game, just like they did with Dirge of Cerberus.

EDIT:

We can read all the reviews we want, but we'll never know how we feel about a game until we play it

This.

Anyways, you could very well be right, a lot of people could be completely alienated and hate this game, or people could be pleasantly surprised. I think the best thing to do would be just to wait it out.

As for me, I'm just proof that some people will like it even if it is stupidly linear, haha.




by the way Dirge was really fucking awful, I traded that shit in for Harvest Moon after a week. Best decision ever. /off-topic

 

[Makoeyes987]

I still think it's a bit too early to consider it a mistake. We can read all the reviews we want, but we'll never know how we feel about a game until we play it.

I'll admit I'm excited about FFXIII, but I plan on playing it with an open mind. I'm not going to let someone ruin a game for me before I even get my hands on it.

Good, you do that. That's a wise, and intelligent approach. But I highly doubt this shit is coming from nowhere. From what I've seen and read, I definitely know enough to realize this isn't the game I was expecting, and it disappoints me.

I'll rent this first and see how it is myself. If it somehow magically surprises me and turns out good, I'll buy it. But this will be the very first time I've ever had to rent an FF first, before buying it. And that's sad.

@Like Vines

I understand, and yeah. That's true. But using your example of Dirge, there are just things that are bad, and done the wrong way. There's a difference between something being "different" and just fucked up. Dirge got fucked up, and no matter how "different" it is, it wasn't done right. It just...wasn't.

SE doesn't have to make you like it, but they have to at least keep up to the reasonable expectation of quality and content they've created with each game they've produced. With DC, they didn't. And that's why people were disappointed, and why some people are disappointed in FFXIII.

 

[Arianna]

We'll have to wait and see...

Reading the two articles (at least for the most part), the verdict I'm picking up regarding Final Fantasy XIII: boring.

Just to let you know again, I'll be scanning the article later today. Hopefully I'll have it up before the evening.

 

[CK]

If what mako's saying is correct then i'll probably rent it. I don't really care about FF gameplay because more than likely after a week or so i'll be bored as fuck of the gameplay.

 

[Ghost X]

In summary, I agree, FFXIII sucks according to everything I've read and seen of it. I've never got this impression from any main instalment of FF before buying it in the past. If anything, I'd hire it only, but I probably won't even do that. I have good hopes for Versus though, even though it probably won't be like FF of old either. I thought it was a PSP game, until I learnt it was PS3 game yesterday (because I'm thick). I'm like, "awesome!"

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I think I already brought this up, but wasn't FF6 100% linear in the World of Balance? There were little side tasks like the Auction and the wounded soldier but no subquests, we just went where the story told us and yeah we could go back to previous cities, but we had no reason to. Then we hit the World of Ruin and it became Subquest City USA. Looking back, does anyone think FF6 sucked because of this?

I'm giving FF13 the benefit of the doubt. Will it be flawed? Yes, no FF was perfect, FF6 and FF7 were epic but they had their flaws. FF6' had unbalanced characters, overpowered magic, easy bosses as a result of the first two. Kefka was an epic villain, but as a final boss, when I can attack sixteen times with one character, 62000 HP doesn't last very long. Should I really make a list of all the flaws each FF game has? So FF13 is flawed, big shock, I never expected it to be perfect. Does this mean it will suck? I don't know, I haven't played it yet. I'll play FF13, then decide if it sucked.

I'll also note that no matter what, no one should base their opinions on the opinions of critics and reviewers. I read movie and game reviews, but I never listen to them. Why? Because they aren't me - no reviewer thinks exactly *like me*, so that reviewer has no concept of what I do and do not like in my games. So how am I supposed to base my opinions on the opinions of someone else with different tastes? This goes for everyone really, play the game yourself and base your opinion on what you think, not on what a website or magazine writer told you to think. Formulate an impression, but commit to saying it sucks until you experience it yourself.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Of course. There's occasions where this hasn't been done when it should have -- for example, the invasion of Midgar in Dirge of Cerberus. I can even think of some examples in FFXIII -- one not unlike the highway chase from VII, actually.

Just following up on what I said earlier with this comment from the Kotaku review:

Anyway, we go into videogames because we want to "do cool stuff" or "see cool stuff", right? And while Final Fantasy XIII shows you plenty of cool stuff, it doesn't really let you do a lot of it. There's the should-be-infamous scene early on where two characters spy a parked sky-motorcycle in a cut-scene. Then the player is given control. You approach the motorcycles. A cut-scene starts. Your dudes get on and then fly away. They look like they're having a lot of fun! Too bad we can't have that fun!

...

When a player sees something happening in your videogame and says "Man, that would be kind of cool to do in a videogame", the ghost is basically given up.

This is pretty much the kind of thing I believe Mako's talking about, and I don't disagree.

There's that scene and at least three others I can think of where the player should have had control. There's awesome-looking cutscenes that could have probably made for great fun if translated to gameplay, but they just remained awesome-looking cutscenes.

Still, while I see what Mako's talking about and appreciate his concern, I can't help but feel that FFXIII has won me over in spite of it all.

Oh, by the way, there's this too:

The "Crystarium" (Sphere Board / License Board / Materia rolled into one) is so drab and linear: you just choose the next ability in line until your points are gone. A couple battles later, you open the menu again, spend all your points, close it, and go back to The Road. Your characters have two pieces of equipment: weapon and accessory. They have attack and magic attack in their status menu, and that's it.

Moving on:

I guess my point is just "they're all different". If it's badly received (which it very well could be, if it's as linear as some people claim it is I know some people will be EXTREMELY disappointed), Square will change their ways for the next game, just like they did with Dirge of Cerberus.

Post thanked.

Okay, you're trying to be positive and see the glass as half full. I getcha.

Problem is, its only 1/4th full.

Ah, see, it's exactly the opposite for me. I'd say 3/4 full. The gameplay makes up that other 1/4 of an RPG experience for me.

You're a cheeky bugger, aren't you?

Somebody's got to let you know when you're wrong.

And well that's good. Glad there's a wonderful story. Guess I'll just youtube it or rent it then. Since apparently the player isn't good enough in terms of interacting with the super sexy characters.

I think maybe you should just rent it or YouTube it, honestly. Knowing your gaming preferences, I feel like you're going to be pissed if you don't.

My advice is rent it.

When you say "interacting with the super sexy characters," I know you were hoping for a massage mini-game a la FFX-2 with Lightning.

Or possibly a Hot Coffee?

You get too forgiving and you're gonna end up with shit on your plate when you're expecting your order of a porter house steak. Being forgiving is one thing, but there's a limit on how much should be forgiven. Why the fuck should they not be called out for their bullshit and suffer the consequences?

...

You think they're gonna learn anything and make better games if everyone keeps forgiving them and not calling them out if they make a mistake?

That's exactly the argument I've been making about continuity and storytelling since my return from exile. I think you may be starting to get it, just in a different area.

You vote with your wallet, and if continuity catastrofucks like Before Crisis, Last Order and Crisis Core aren't met with the derision and ostracism they deserve, they'll become the standard of the times. As far as competent, coherent, cohesive storytelling goes, I feel that the only parts of the Compilation of FFVII to measure up are Advent Children (Complete) and most of the On the Way to a Smile stories (not Case of Yuffie or Case of Nanaki, though).

Some days I even feel like Dirge of Cerberus comes close -- but that's just my love of Shelke and the soundtrack talking. As a whole, the game is a disaster, right in the same class with BC, CC and LO.

So, what's the solution to our dilemmas? Vote, sir! Vote!

If you don't think FFXIII sounds like something you would support, then don't buy it. Rent it at most and find out.

I didn't buy Crisis Core, and I didn't have to regret anything. If I wasn't buying Dirge of Cerberus for somebody else, I'd have never even payed for that.

This is a fun discussion for me. It's inspiring to finally see somebody else around here get as pissed as I was when the fourth version of the Nibelheim Incident rolled around -- I even did something similar to you, Mako, in that I wrote an editorial ranting about it in my school's paper.

Though it turned more into a rant about continuity in general, artistic integrity, and the pervasive sequel crisis in film and gaming.

FFIX had a few problems with its gameplay (its battle system being an example) but I've got to wholeheartedly disagree with you saying its story wasn't that good. It was one of the best, I'd say. Very emotional and balanced in terms of its presentation.

The most interesting character in the game other than Vivi is one we barely get to control, and don't follow for much of the game. I'm, of course, talking about Beatrix.

Everybody else did nothing for me. Kuja and Mikoto were more interesting than the rest of the main cast. I had more emotional involvement with Mikoto than, say, Amarant, Eiko or Steiner.

And how was it not immersive?

Was talking about the apparent status of XIII's gameplay. IX, despite its numerous problems, was certainly immersive. I don't disagree with that.

The reason I believe CC was so much better as a game than DC ...

:failsafe:

 

[Makoeyes987]

Just following up on what I said earlier with this comment from the Kotaku review:



This is pretty much the kind of thing I believe Mako's talking about, and I don't disagree.

There's that scene and at least three others I can think of where the player should have had control. There's awesome-looking cutscenes that could have probably made for great fun if translated to gameplay, but they just remained awesome-looking cutscenes.

Still, while I see what Mako's talking about and appreciate his concern, I can't help but feel that FFXIII has won me over in spite of it all.

At least you understand me. Yes. Thank you.

Somebody's got to let you know when you're wrong.

If Dissidia weren't a fighting game with RPG elements, with fully explorable, and destroyable maps, with such an engaging and enjoyable fighting system, then yeah, I'd be pissed.

I think maybe you should just rent it or YouTube it, honestly. Knowing your gaming preferences, I feel like you're going to be pissed if you don't.

My advice is rent it.

Yeah, I probably will.

When you say "interacting with the super sexy characters," I know you were hoping for a massage mini-game a la FFX-2 with Lightning.

You know, people make fun of FFX-2 for shit like that, and all its silly mini-games, but honestly? I think that's one of its strong points.

Between a game where I just sit on my hands and watch cool characters do shit hitting the occasional X-button, or a game with dorky ditzes doing fun shit that I get to actually to control and PARTICIPATE in actively, and my choices and actions concretely influence the storyline...

I'll go with the dorky ditzes, hands down.

Or possibly a Hot Coffee?

That would be nice...

That's exactly the argument I've been making about continuity and storytelling since my return from exile. I think you may be starting to get it, just in a different area.

You vote with your wallet, and if continuity catastrofucks like Before Crisis, Last Order and Crisis Core aren't met with the derision and ostracism they deserve, they'll become the standard of the times. As far as competent, coherent, cohesive storytelling goes, I feel that the only parts of the Compilation of FFVII to measure up are Advent Children (Complete) and most of the On the Way to a Smile stories (not Case of Yuffie or Case of Nanaki, though).

I totally see your point now. I guess I forgave those continuity things because individually, on the whole, the story was still engaging and entertaining, and the gameplay was fun. See? It looks like we're on opposite ends of the spectrum regarding this.

This is a fun discussion for me. It's inspiring to finally see somebody else around here get as pissed as I was when the fourth version of the Nibelheim Incident rolled around -- I even did something similar to you, Mako, in that I wrote an editorial ranting about it in my school's paper.

I never thought that person would be me, to be honest.

The most interesting character in the game other than Vivi is one we barely get to control, and don't follow for much of the game. I'm, of course, talking about Beatrix.

Everybody else did nothing for me. Kuja and Mikoto were more interesting than the rest of the main cast. I had more emotional involvement with Mikoto than, say, Amarant, Eiko or Steiner.

That's some cold shit Tres. You didn't feel anything for Freya, or Eiko? Zidane, or..? Damn. What the fuck rubbed you so wrong?

Was talking about the apparent status of XIII's gameplay. IX, despite its numerous problems, was certainly immersive. I don't disagree with that.

Ahh, okay.


And you give CC so much shit regarding continuity, but if you look at CC individually as a story..Zack's story, there's no denying that its pretty damn moving. The gameplay is fun as hell, as is its extras and some of its missions. I dunno, I'm more forgiving because the game is fun and its story is good on its own. I suppose its continuity fuck ups would be more grating had its gameplay been sub-par (ala DC) or its story not as enjoyable (again, DC comes to mind, with its mistakes.)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

At least you understand me. Yes. Thank you.

You know, people make fun of FFX-2 for shit like that, and all its silly mini-games, but honestly? I think that's one of its strong points.

Between a game where I just sit on my hands and watch cool characters do shit hitting the occasional X-button, or a game with dorky ditzes doing fun shit that I get to actually to control and PARTICIPATE in actively, and my choices and actions concretely influence the storyline...

I'll go with the dorky ditzes, hands down.

I thought X-2 was a lot of fun myself. Honestly, after how depressing most off X was, I found it quite welcome to see Spira in a different atmosphere.

I totally see your point now. I guess I forgave those continuity things because individually, on the whole, the story was still engaging and entertaining, and the gameplay was fun. See? It looks like we're on opposite ends of the spectrum regarding this.

Indeed.

That's some cold shit Tres. You didn't feel anything for Freya, or Eiko? Zidane, or..? Damn.

Okay, I did like Freya. I'll give you that one.

What the fuck rubbed you so wrong?

Everything from the art direction and gameplay to how annoying most of the cast was.

And you give CC so much shit regarding continuity, but if you look at CC individually as a story ...

Then it would be an Elseworlds and not part of the Compilation, yes?

But I'll play along.

... ..Zack's story, there's no denying that its pretty damn moving.

I don't disagree. It's not that bad in complete isolation.

And, yes, it certainly can be moving, especially the ending. I love that they included it in ACC. That's one of the greatest endings ever, "Why" and all.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I thought X-2 was a lot of fun myself. Honestly, after how depressing most off X was, I found it quite welcome to see Spira in a different atmosphere.

I need my games to be fun, entertaining from a gameplay perspective, AND hold an engaging story.

Okay, I did like Freya. I'll give you that one.



Everything from the art direction and gameplay to how annoying most of the cast was.

Well, I'm glad you remembered Freya

...But you only liking essentially one main cast character isn't a good sign. They do have their faults, but thats what I thought made them endearing. Even Dagger, and her weak ass.

Then it would be an Elseworlds and not part of the Compilation, yes?

But I'll play along.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend their lack of coherency and keeping the facts straight. They need to do better at it.

...Which is another reason I found Dissidia to be so enjoyable and well done. They worked so fucking hard..to keep things consistent. They really did research to look back and remember what the characters did and all.

So they are capable.

I don't disagree. It's not that bad in complete isolation.

And, yes, it certainly can be moving, especially the ending. I love that they included it in ACC. That's one of the greatest endings ever, "Why" and all.

So we agree there too. They just should've actually kept shit in line in terms of the story.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend their lack of coherency and keeping the facts straight. They need to do better at it.

...Which is another reason I found Dissidia to be so enjoyable and well done. They worked so fucking hard..to keep things consistent. They really did research to look back and remember what the characters did and all.

So they are capable.

That's because Dissidia was made by FF fanboys who just happen to work for SE now. XD

So we agree there too. They just should've actually kept shit in line in terms of the story.

Yep.

 

[OWA-2]

The way I see it, great part of an RPG is about exploration. Visiting different locations, talking with NPCs, going back to these locations, etc.
A game that doesn't permit you to explore, and is completely linear by making you go through chapters, is not an RPG IMO.

Actually, FFXIII reminds me of Before Crisis. Very similar to an RPG, but not a real one.

Let me preface this by stating that by no means, do I want my own opinion and conclusion to have a negative effect on how anyone perceives this game. I want people to play this and/or look at the facts on their own with an open mind. I am by no means, trying to tell people what to think or ruin this experience for them.

And really no. You shouldn't forgive FFXIII. In fact, you should be even more upset considering from your perspective, they didn't learn from their mistake regarding FFIX.