Something's wrong, and I'm gonna say it - FFXIII Spoilers abound

[Cat Rage Room]

cause if not, something bad's gonna happen to their future sales and consumer base.

Well, it's sort of already happening (or happened), if you read up on their sales in the past. I remember reading about two years back that they were in a bind.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They were mostly in a bind like most game developers were due to the recession. I'd like to see what their sales are like now and in the future, with them finally going into the next generation of consoles.

I really want to know how much FFXIII sells once it hits the states, really.

 

[Zee]

Mako:

See, you're trying to tell me that by playing this game, I'm somehow going to magically forgive all of its DESIGN FLAWS as a GAME because its story is going to be so super awesome and shiny, I'll be moved to tears, and that will somehow make it a good game.

I'm not saying you'll love or even like the game after you've played it--however, at least you'd have a more educated opinion, and a validated one at that. You're passing judgment based on your own limited experience and what some other people have said and passing it off like it's gospel, rather than playing it and then making a decision yourself. Seems kinda hasty and lazy to me.

A game can be a good GAME with a bad story. What the hell's the point of a game that can't even be played properly? It's like food you can't eat. You'd rather just stare at a game that plays itself, rather than play it? No. That's not why most people play games. They want to PLAY them. Not watch them.

HEY, LOOK AT THIS CIRCLE. IT GOES ROUND AND ROUND.

You can't have a good game without good gameplay. But you also can't have a good game without a good story. jfc.

Nothing I'm hearing about FFXIII, even with all the complaints, makes me think this game is totally unplayable. If it's not your cup of tea, then here's a novel concept: don't bother with it! At this point you've already made your decision anyway, so I don't even see why you'd bother to rent it.

Zack is a major player in the Nibelheim incident, did you honestly expect them to tell his story and just gloss over that event? The guy spent four years in a tube because of what happened in that town.

You're missing the point. How is a game creative if it's rehashing a story--badly, at that, of something we've seen at least twice before?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

But you also can't have a good game without a good story. jfc.

Uh, yes you can. I can name many, many great games with either a bad story, next to no story, or no story at all.

 

[Zee]

Uh, yes you can. I can name many, many great games with either a bad story, next to no story, or no story at all.

We have very different concepts of what makes a great game then, lol.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

We have very different concepts of what makes a great game then, lol.

Sorry, not all games are JRPGs where a story is even necessary. Think outside of the JRPG box.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

GRAN TURISMO AND HALO 3 (which the latter is the best selling and has the highest amount of players all time) AREN'T GREAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A GOOD STORY

STREET FIGHTER AND TEKKEN DON'T HAVE A GREAT STORY NOPE THEY SUCK ASS

 

[Tetsujin]

Super Mario.

Fun games. Very fun.
Story? None, except "princess gets kidnapped, save her. AGAIN."

So yeah, I agree. You can have awesome games with bad or non-existant plots.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

MARIO SUCKS

WHERE'S MY ROMANCE AND CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

 

[Zee]

Did you seriously bring up Halo as an example of a good game? loooooool.

STREET FIGHTER AND TEKKEN DON'T HAVE A GREAT STORY NOPE THEY SUCK ASS

CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL

Yes, I see your point. However, those games aren't expected to have any good plot/storyline, which is the difference. This is a Final Fantasy game which, y'know, kinda prides itself on epic storylines.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Which was a shame, because TSW was pretty damn good, actually. Never got the recognition it deserved in my opinion.

QFT even though not really relevant.

Nothing so far has made me interested in FFXIII and I've had a distaste for it since it was first being announced and information about it released. All of these reviews just makes me glad I wasn't expecting much from it so now I'm not as disappointed as some of you are.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Did you seriously bring up Halo as an example of a good game? loooooool.

Halo, like I said is one of the best reviewed, played, subscribed, and purchased games of all time. It's the most game played on Live by far. Yes, it's a good (multiplayer) game. A very good multiplayer game. Between the Forge feature, easy access online multiplayer, and it's updates, yes, it's a good game. Actually, it's one of the best games of its kind.

Let me guess, you're one of those people that have: Never played Halo to any real extent and are hopping on the "Halo is bad because it's popular" trend, OR, you have played Halo and the expected response is "Yes I've played Halo so I have the right to say it sucks" EXCEPT that you probably have played a grand total of 3 FPS of any kind to any real extent over your entire life so therefore your opinion of whether Halo is good or bad compared to other games of its kind has no real leg to stand on.

 

[Zee]

Wow, it's like you can read me like a book.

Wanna go to dinner later?

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's funny, I thought Final Fantasy prided itself on making good RPG GAMES. And part of a good RPG is having a story built upon GAMEPLAY. You know, that's what the "G" is for after all. I didn't know SE was in the business of making crappy interactive movies.

I'm not saying you'll love or even like the game after you've played it--however, at least you'd have a more educated opinion, and a validated one at that. You're passing judgment based on your own limited experience and what some other people have said and passing it off like it's gospel, rather than playing it and then making a decision yourself. Seems kinda hasty and lazy to me.

You're not making any sense. How is my opinion any less valid, if my criticism is in regards to the lacking of specific, integral RPG and gameplay elements that make the game inferior to other games of the same genre, and on the same console? Am I wrong? Does FFXIII really have these elements I'm talking about? If they don't, then no. It's as valid as someone else who had to waste 20 hours of their life and play through it. It's a fucking fact that there are no towns or interaction with NPCs in this game. There's no subjectivity to this. So me playing it or not is irrelevant.

A contractor can point out a structural weakness in a bridge by looking at the blue prints of said bridge. He doesn't have to drive up to it and look at it. So no, me playing the game and citing its faults are not necessary.

Nothing I'm hearing about FFXIII, even with all the complaints, makes me think this game is totally unplayable. If it's not your cup of tea, then here's a novel concept: don't bother with it! At this point you've already made your decision anyway, so I don't even see why you'd bother to rent it.

No shit. And I'll rent it cause I'm curious about what story it has to tell.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Wow, it's like you can read me like a book.

Wanna go to dinner later?

What time do you want me to pick you up? I have a Lamborghini Countach, a wad of cash, and a big penis.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Uh, yes you can. I can name many, many great games with either a bad story, next to no story, or no story at all.

Left 4 Dead comes to mind, as my favourite video game series, but no cut-scenes and the characters are very in the dark about what's happening the entire time.

Did you seriously bring up Halo as an example of a good game? loooooool.

Mog said it right but I'll add that Halo 3 raised the bar so high for multiplayer that the gaming industry still seems to be having trouble catching up. Not saying some games havn't done amazing things since then, but others are still very lacking.

And I thought Halo ODST had some of the best story telling I had seen in a long time, felt for the characters, loved the way it progressed, etc.

 

[Zee]

What time do you want me to pick you up? I have a Lamborghini Countach, a wad of cash, and a big penis.

8:30. By the time we get home, my dad will be asleep and I can finally lose my virginity.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Whoooooa...I'm glad you two have found each other and all but you probably should use the PM system to coordinate your rendezvous.

@Balthea

Oh yes, Left 4 Dead. Thank you for bringing up that little gem of awesome.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Just wanna say SO hated the single player in L4D. House of the Dead was better.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Oh yes, Left 4 Dead. Thank you for bringing up that little gem of awesome.

Awesome doesn't even begin to describe. I almost peed my pants playing the Hard Rain campaign, and my gaming room is literally covered in those posters.

 

[Loxetta]

You're missing the point. How is a game creative if it's rehashing a story--badly, at that, of something we've seen at least twice before?

lol wut? CC's Nibelheim isn't a rehash, it's an elaboration. And how was it bad? Because Genesis was in it? Compare the three versions and the one that makes the most sense and has the best coherency is CC's. It's the fullest account of what really happened, not watered down to what some Turk thinks she saw, or what some headcase thinks he experienced. Genesis being at the reactor and telling Sephiroth that he came from the Jenova Project makes sense. Sephiroth doesn't just flip his lid and decide to go hang out in the basement of Shinra Mansion, whereupon he stumbles some convinently placed records of his creation. No, Genesis told him he wasn't made naturally and then he goes to investigate.

The creative part isn't the chosen scene, it's how they 'fixed' the events in the scene while still working in the broundries of the continuity, and how they manged to tie it in with the "SOLDIER = monster?" theme of Crisis Core.

 

[Dashell]

Mako, just really really quick, food, buildings and whatever else you brought up are not games. You had to try to Coconut before you knew you hated it right? And if a building is slanted, you know it's not safe. That's common sense. You can't compare everything in the world to a game.

Anyways you said you'd try the game and I think that's good and if you still dislike it after that, well add it to the list with coconuts

As for reviewers, really you can't go by what they say alone. They bandwagon and they're bias. Sonic Unleashed was a really good game and it got slammed constantly. The fanbase however, loved it, so it really goes to show you what reviewers know. I usually listen to the actual fanbase myself.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Mako, just really really quick, food, buildings and whatever else you brought up are not games. You had to try to Coconut before you knew you hated it right? And if a building is slanted, you know it's not safe. That's common sense. You can't compare everything in the world to a game.

Good job missing the point of an analogy. Yeah, they are not games, but the same premise of judgment on fact remains. That was my entire point.

It's common sense that an RPG that has no RPG elements, simplistic, linear level design, and hand-holding combat is not going to be nearly as fun or engrossing as a game that allows true player interaction and input, true player interaction with the characters/NPCs, the ability to actually have a difficult fight, and not have the game stacking shit in your favor.

It's common sense that someone is going to be disappointed in a franchise, that three years ago, made a game that was one of the best RPGs on the PS2, and one of the best games on the PS2 period, and now made a game that can't even hope to contend with being at least in the top 10 games of 2009. It's not even funny how inferior this game is compared to others of its ilk on the same console.

Anyways you said you'd try the game and I think that's good and if you still dislike it after that, well add it to the list with coconuts

I'm only going to give it a shot because I still want to know what FFXIII's story has to tell. I doubt me playing it is going to suddenly make me like it better as a game. It's factually missing the integral elements that make an RPG enjoyable for me, and most people.

As for reviewers, really you can't go by what they say alone. They bandwagon and they're bias. Sonic Unleashed was a really good game and it got slammed constantly. The fanbase however, loved it, so it really goes to show you what reviewers know. I usually listen to the actual fanbase myself.

So you think the reviewers are lying? You really think that most of the maps aren't straight lines, and there are towns and people, and the gameplay is actually challenging? You really believe that?

And fuck the fans. Sadly they'll eat anything that's put in front of them, and if developers keep exclusively catering to what fans what, that's when the quality suffers. They'll realize they've been fed junk food and BOOM. Everyone walks away from the table.

 

[Dashell]

Good job missing the point of an analogy. Yeah, they are not games, but the same premise of judgment on fact remains. That was my entire point.

I understand that they're analogies, but they're just not doing it for me.

So you think the reviewers are lying? You really think that most of the maps aren't straight lines, and there are towns and people, and the gameplay is actually challenging? You really believe that?

Not lying but going into it thinking they're going to hate it and then they only look for flaws.

And fuck the fans. Sadly they'll eat anything that's put in front of them, and if developers keep exclusively catering to what fans what, that's when the quality suffers. They'll realize they've been fed junk food and BOOM. Everyone walks away from the table.

Dude you're a fan, are you not? Mog is a fan right? I'd listen to you two over some reviewer any day because I know what you guys like and we like a lot of the same things and chances are if you really can't find anything good about the game, it really is bad. Of course we have to take in account Tres and Hito who say they have found enjoyment in the game.

My point is, I prefer to listen to people I know over reviewers. Like I said cause I know what you guys like and so on.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I understand that they're analogies, but they're just not doing it for me.

What's not doing it for you? The fact someone can make an informed opinion based on the fact of something lacking in the first place? How the hell does that not make sense?

Not lying but going into it thinking they're going to hate it and then they only look for flaws.

Okay, now I have to ask. Did you read the reviews? Did you? Because it's not about subjective interpretation, mind-set, or only looking for flaws.

It's stating the obvious, and blatant facts of the game.

There are no towns. There are no NPCs. Everythings a straight line. There is no exploration. There are no side quests. Etc, etc, etc.

That has nothing to do with fault finding, going into it hating it, or whatever you're talking about. It's a statement of fact in the game's design. If I walk into your house and say to you "there's a dead cat spiked to a cross in your living room, this is scary, I wanna go home" I'm not fault finding your home! I'm stating a fact.

Dude you're a fan, are you not? Mog is a fan right? I'd listen to you two over some reviewer any day because I know what you guys like and we like a lot of the same things and chances are if you really can't find anything good about the game, it really is bad. Of course we have to take in account Tres and Hito who say they have found enjoyment in the game.

Well that's fair enough, and I'm glad you hold such weight to our opinions, but I also appreciate the opinions of those that are not fans and can look at a game with an unbiased lens. It helps give a look at what the skeleton and actual game is like, when stripped of its subjective bells and whistles to make us squeel with delight.

Tres and hito have said they enjoyed it, but they have acknowledged several gameplay features that have been stripped from this game. While they say they still enjoy it, that doesn't change the fact that they are missing. That is what I don't like. It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the actual story. I'm sure I will like it for what its worth. But that won't make it a good game to me.

My point is, I'd listen to people I know over reviewers any day. Like I said cause I know what you guys like and so on.

I've listened to Tres and hito. It was their confirmation that finally led me to realize this game is not what I was hoping for and disappointed me greatly.