Sony's Spider-Man: Now a Part of the MCU; And Now Not Again; And Now Is Again
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Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
Tears were shed. 
But anyway, I really don't want to write out everything that I did before, but I did think of a good way to sum up how I felt about the movie.
A year or two (or more?) ago I remember venturing into the comments on a YouTube video (scary, I know, but I like to live dangerously) where there was a debate between a bunch of Trigun fans on which was better, the anime or the manga? One poignant response that always stuck with me was, "The manga told a better story, but the anime told its story better."
That's essentially how I feel about these movies. I can't help but compare them to the Raimi trilogy, and I think I can apply that comment to this situation. I feel that the Marc Webb movies tell a far better story, however, the Raimi trilogy had a better presentation.
I do, however, still feel that Andrew Garfield is a far superior (har har) Spider-man to Tobey Maguire. I wonder what it would have been like if Garfield had been in the Raimi trilogy instead. Maybe those movies would have aged with me a lot better. I tried to rewatch Spider-man and Spider-man 2 recently and I didn't enjoy them as much as I remembered enjoying them when I was younger. I think it really is because, as much as I did like the movies back in the day, there was always something about Maguire that just seemed wrong to me. I never felt like this really was Peter/Spidey. I could suspend my disbelief when the mask was on, but when it came off, nope, it just wasn't Peter. Andrew, however, is a lot more on the mark.
And that is essentially all I can really think to say for the moment. My original post went more into detail about what I did and didn't like about individual plot elements, but I'm not writing all of that out again.
But anyway, I really don't want to write out everything that I did before, but I did think of a good way to sum up how I felt about the movie.
A year or two (or more?) ago I remember venturing into the comments on a YouTube video (scary, I know, but I like to live dangerously) where there was a debate between a bunch of Trigun fans on which was better, the anime or the manga? One poignant response that always stuck with me was, "The manga told a better story, but the anime told its story better."
That's essentially how I feel about these movies. I can't help but compare them to the Raimi trilogy, and I think I can apply that comment to this situation. I feel that the Marc Webb movies tell a far better story, however, the Raimi trilogy had a better presentation.
I do, however, still feel that Andrew Garfield is a far superior (har har) Spider-man to Tobey Maguire. I wonder what it would have been like if Garfield had been in the Raimi trilogy instead. Maybe those movies would have aged with me a lot better. I tried to rewatch Spider-man and Spider-man 2 recently and I didn't enjoy them as much as I remembered enjoying them when I was younger. I think it really is because, as much as I did like the movies back in the day, there was always something about Maguire that just seemed wrong to me. I never felt like this really was Peter/Spidey. I could suspend my disbelief when the mask was on, but when it came off, nope, it just wasn't Peter. Andrew, however, is a lot more on the mark.
And that is essentially all I can really think to say for the moment. My original post went more into detail about what I did and didn't like about individual plot elements, but I'm not writing all of that out again.
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Interslicery
.....
I'll agree that Garfield is a better Parker/Spider-Man, but I think that also comes down to the writing (no witty quips Raimi Spider-Man? come on). I think the reason the Raimi ones were good is because they were good movies in a world where the number of good super hero movies could be counted on one hand. These days there's so many good ones that they seem less special and more average.
As to ASM2.... sigh.
Ehh...
As to ASM2.... sigh.
Garfield's better than he was in 1, the stuff with him fighting random crime is great (not as much of an asshole in his quips and more playful). Thats really it that I enjoyed besides some random bits (that one min scene of Spidey talking to Electro in Times Square for example).
OKkkk.... I was bored. Alot. I dont find the Gwen+Peter relationship interesting in the slightest. The way they play it seems like we should care if they get back together, but, why? I never bought that one loved the other. Yeah they have a good repport, but if they just came off as good friends to me. Nothing about their relationship says star crossed lovers, or that they're madly in love. There was zero passion or wanting.
Electro: they played him too cartoonish. At least until he falls in a vat of electric eels. Then he became one note and boring. He looked pretty tho. EDIT: Oh right, he literally becomes a dubstep gun.
Goblin: ...OK? Whatever. I honestly dont really know what to say. One note. Grr Im mad cause my dad didn't like me and Im gonna die in like 50 yearrrss. That explains why I become homicidalll. Ooooo!
Rhino: He mocks a 6 yr old. Good contribution.
The parents subplot: The whole thing was just to say "Oscorp was gonna misuse my research so I left and they killed me." Which was HEAVILY IMPLIED in the first movie. So... not sure what the point was other than to have an airplane fight.
Gwen: Impact was brutal. Decent twist to her neck snapping. The web turning into a hand when going for her made me chuckle. No reason for her to be there other than to kill her. "You need me cause I know the system and how to reset the power grid!" You mean walk to the control room and flip the switch that reads "reset the power grid"? Yeah, ok.
And.. was there anything else in the movie? 2 1/2 hours to kill Gwen. But don't worry guys!! There's lots of stuff coming up!! Just pay to see the next movie and you'll get all the things!
OKkkk.... I was bored. Alot. I dont find the Gwen+Peter relationship interesting in the slightest. The way they play it seems like we should care if they get back together, but, why? I never bought that one loved the other. Yeah they have a good repport, but if they just came off as good friends to me. Nothing about their relationship says star crossed lovers, or that they're madly in love. There was zero passion or wanting.
Electro: they played him too cartoonish. At least until he falls in a vat of electric eels. Then he became one note and boring. He looked pretty tho. EDIT: Oh right, he literally becomes a dubstep gun.
Goblin: ...OK? Whatever. I honestly dont really know what to say. One note. Grr Im mad cause my dad didn't like me and Im gonna die in like 50 yearrrss. That explains why I become homicidalll. Ooooo!
Rhino: He mocks a 6 yr old. Good contribution.
The parents subplot: The whole thing was just to say "Oscorp was gonna misuse my research so I left and they killed me." Which was HEAVILY IMPLIED in the first movie. So... not sure what the point was other than to have an airplane fight.
Gwen: Impact was brutal. Decent twist to her neck snapping. The web turning into a hand when going for her made me chuckle. No reason for her to be there other than to kill her. "You need me cause I know the system and how to reset the power grid!" You mean walk to the control room and flip the switch that reads "reset the power grid"? Yeah, ok.
And.. was there anything else in the movie? 2 1/2 hours to kill Gwen. But don't worry guys!! There's lots of stuff coming up!! Just pay to see the next movie and you'll get all the things!
Ehh...
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X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
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- X
I probably think that the reason I enjoy these films as much as I do is because I really didn't enjoy the Raimi Trilogy (a lot of that comes down to cinematography choices that he makes and lots of me completely losing suspension of disbelief in all of the films).
X
X
Tetsujin
he/they
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- Tets
Interslicery
.....
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
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- TresDias
I can appreciate the gripe with the cinematography (the Webb films definitely fit the atmosphere of Spider-Man better in that respect), but I can't help but feel the first Raimi movie is a stronger film than the first Webb movie in telling its story and moving its plot along.
There are things each does that I like better. The first Raimi film does a much better job convincing me that its Peter Parker is an awkward nerd on the fringes while the first Webb film makes Spider-Man more witty like he should be. The Raimi film is more willing to have fun with and poke fun at its source material while the Webb film ties its Oscorp elements in better. Raimi's spider bite scene is less janky while Webb's Uncle Ben tragedy is more "modern" and relatable. Raimi's scenes of power discovery are more fun while Webb's transition to outright superheroics feels more organic. I could keep going.
Not sure what my point is, but I'm going to at least need to see AS2 (this weekend) before I can start to form an opinion on which is the stronger series.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
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- X
The Webb films have the issue that they ALWAYS film a metric shitton of stuff that's completely cut out by the time the film actually releases (there're lots of quotes & other stuff from the trailers that never happen in AMS2 - not to mention MJ being totally eliminated). That's why I think that they specifics of the story have a tendency to feel quite a bit less streamlined in their execution and storytelling than the Raimi films. I totally agree with you there.
I have no idea why these get to me as badly as they do, but in Raimi's films always have moments that kick me out of me "experiencing" mindset into a "I'm watching actors do things in a movie theater" moments that just utterly killed them for me. In the first Spider-man, it's where Goblin sleep gas KO's Spider-man... and just sits with him up on the roof chatting like a couple of drunks on Halloween costumes, the whole thing just irks me and looks soo terrible. In the second film it's the wavey water-like transition to Doc Oc's shanty base on the pier, because it's one of those, "Hey, guys! That was a transition to a new scene! You know - because you're watching a movie!" things that takes me out of the moment. And you know... like the entire third film.
Seriously though, I have no idea why but I have a ridiculously hard time trying to enjoy those films at all, but I really do which probably makes me really like the TASM films by comparison more than everyone else. Either that or I'm apparently the sort of person who is forgiving of slightly broken storytelling with good execution, rather than the opposite. ...probably both.
I do look forward to seeing what you think of it though, Tres.
X
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
@Gobby's sleep gas in the first Raimi film: OMG YES THANK YOU. That scene has always bugged the crap out of me. I hate stuff like that. If the villain catches the hero, the first thing they always need to do is take off their mask. End of. Why did he not do it?? 
But actually, there are a lot of things about the Raimi movies that I adore. But there are things that I do not. Same with the ASM movies.
I wish I could take all the things I love about both and smoosh them together into one movie.
But actually, there are a lot of things about the Raimi movies that I adore. But there are things that I do not. Same with the ASM movies.
I wish I could take all the things I love about both and smoosh them together into one movie.
The Twilight Mexican
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- TresDias
Ditto.
Regarding the gas thing, it never really bothered me. It felt like a scene from a comic book. I mean, Electro once let Spidey live because he begged.
Regarding the gas thing, it never really bothered me. It felt like a scene from a comic book. I mean, Electro once let Spidey live because he begged.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
I'm willing to let the being knocked out so easily by the gas part slide. It's just that the Goblin really should have removed Spider-Man's mask in that scene. I hate those types of scenes, whether comics, cartoons, etc. I remember this one time in the 90's cartoon where Doc Ock had Spider-Man under mind control for an entire episode and had a totally lame excuse for not having him take off his mask. I hated that then, and I was like, 12. I still highly dislike it now. 
If you're going to put the hero in that kind of situation, be prepared for the villain to find out their secret identity. Otherwise, don't put the hero in that situation at all.
It's one reasons why the Ultimate Spider-Man comics are so great. Early in his super hero career, Peter gets beat by the Kingpin's henchmen. What's the first thing they do? They freaking remove his mask.
If you're going to put the hero in that kind of situation, be prepared for the villain to find out their secret identity. Otherwise, don't put the hero in that situation at all.It's one reasons why the Ultimate Spider-Man comics are so great. Early in his super hero career, Peter gets beat by the Kingpin's henchmen. What's the first thing they do? They freaking remove his mask.
looneymoon
they/them
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- Rishi
I just saw this the other night!!!
loved it SO much more than the last one. i really enjoyed the raimi series, and i feel like this new one puts the reboot on par with them, if not surpass.
i'm still debating whether i fear or welcome webb going completely bonkers with the 3rd one like raimi did with his spider-man movies.
andrew garfield emo hairflips.
loved it SO much more than the last one. i really enjoyed the raimi series, and i feel like this new one puts the reboot on par with them, if not surpass.
i'm still debating whether i fear or welcome webb going completely bonkers with the 3rd one like raimi did with his spider-man movies.
andrew garfield emo hairflips.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
when i was watching that all i could think was "omg it's that icon ryu used to use all the time"
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
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- TresDias
Welp, I saw it. Despite concerns about Electro, I ended up really enjoying him in this.
The effects with him were pretty sweet, but not overdone, and the ways Spidey took him down were great, classic Spidey.
In fact, the whole movie was pretty classic Spidey. It felt very much like a story from the comics, perhaps more than any of the other Spider-Movies to date. I'm still not sure whether it's a stronger film than the second Raimi installment, but the storytelling and pacing for this were leaps and bounds above the first Webb movie.
It's also really hard for me to say which is making for a stronger series. Both have some obvious strengths, and both have some things I just personally prefer that they're working on. Obviously the Webb movies have sidelined the Bugle stuff pretty hard, but that's fine given how much time has (or hasn't) passed, while leaving the door open to doing more with it later.
I do prefer this focus being given to the days of "young Spidey" rather than pushing him on ahead into the daily grind of adulthood, but that worked for the Raimi movies and isn't a quality mark against them.
Obviously, this movie has done the best of any at capturing the wit and banter Spidey makes, which is part of that "classic Spidey" feel, but I'd be lying if I said I don't really care for all the focus on Pete's parents. I know that's part of the comics lore, too, but holy shit, any time it came up much in the comics it annoyed the crap out of me there as well. The whole spies-turned-traitors-but-not-really thing for the parents of Spider-Man of all people never worked in the comics. It does work for what they're doing with the Webb movies, and actually works better here than it ever did in the comics, so I have to give kudos for making me able to tolerate it and not find it hokey as fuck.
Still don't know what the hell they were so adamant about uploading that data to Roosevelt for, though. Didn't seem to affect anything other than Pete getting to learn the truth.
In other things I didn't understand, it wasn't at all clear to me whether Harry went a bent insane here after getting the spider venom or whether the guy who opposed human experimentation actually just became that much of an asshole because he was angry at Spider-Man. Not that I don't get why he's angry. I actually found myself wanting to hit Spidey myself when he refused to offer up his blood. Um, why, Pete?
He's your friend and he's dying. He's right that you can't make him die any worse, and if you're concerned about blood compatibility, I think the owner of the world's leading bioresearch company can afford to run some preliminary tests. Are you just that concerned about him finding out your identity? You sure didn't hesitate to give that up to a chick you wanted to bone whose dad wanted to arrest you. Oy.
Completely nonsensical. Sweet fuck.
Anyway, Harry was cast well (beautiful eyes on that guy, I swear) and I really liked his story up until the rushed closing act where I wasn't able to make heads or tails of his mental state. And, yeah, the closing act with Harry as the Goblin felt very rushed compared to the rest of the movie, which had clicked along at a great pace (a lot of reviews have said it felt dragged on, but I never felt that way; it could have stood to be a little longer, actually).
So, in the course of writing this, I actually think I've concluded that the second Raimi film is stronger, though this movie might succeed at feeling the most like what a Spider-Man movie should?
Oh, but please fix that fucking embarrassing thing you're calling the Rhino, Webb. That is not Rhino, and I smack you on the nose for acting like it is.
For that matter, why was he even in the trailers for being in this movie so little? Not that I have a problem with him being in the movie (in fact, I love the note this ended on), but the Goblin received less trailer attention and actually mattered way more to the plot.
And, uh, if we're assembling a team, Harry, why is Rhino already out on the streets making a mess and preparing to get his ass handed to him as he goes back to prison or dies in battle? Did the spider venom undo your common sense?
In fact, the whole movie was pretty classic Spidey. It felt very much like a story from the comics, perhaps more than any of the other Spider-Movies to date. I'm still not sure whether it's a stronger film than the second Raimi installment, but the storytelling and pacing for this were leaps and bounds above the first Webb movie.
It's also really hard for me to say which is making for a stronger series. Both have some obvious strengths, and both have some things I just personally prefer that they're working on. Obviously the Webb movies have sidelined the Bugle stuff pretty hard, but that's fine given how much time has (or hasn't) passed, while leaving the door open to doing more with it later.
I do prefer this focus being given to the days of "young Spidey" rather than pushing him on ahead into the daily grind of adulthood, but that worked for the Raimi movies and isn't a quality mark against them.
Obviously, this movie has done the best of any at capturing the wit and banter Spidey makes, which is part of that "classic Spidey" feel, but I'd be lying if I said I don't really care for all the focus on Pete's parents. I know that's part of the comics lore, too, but holy shit, any time it came up much in the comics it annoyed the crap out of me there as well. The whole spies-turned-traitors-but-not-really thing for the parents of Spider-Man of all people never worked in the comics. It does work for what they're doing with the Webb movies, and actually works better here than it ever did in the comics, so I have to give kudos for making me able to tolerate it and not find it hokey as fuck.
Still don't know what the hell they were so adamant about uploading that data to Roosevelt for, though. Didn't seem to affect anything other than Pete getting to learn the truth.
In other things I didn't understand, it wasn't at all clear to me whether Harry went a bent insane here after getting the spider venom or whether the guy who opposed human experimentation actually just became that much of an asshole because he was angry at Spider-Man. Not that I don't get why he's angry. I actually found myself wanting to hit Spidey myself when he refused to offer up his blood. Um, why, Pete?
He's your friend and he's dying. He's right that you can't make him die any worse, and if you're concerned about blood compatibility, I think the owner of the world's leading bioresearch company can afford to run some preliminary tests. Are you just that concerned about him finding out your identity? You sure didn't hesitate to give that up to a chick you wanted to bone whose dad wanted to arrest you. Oy.
Completely nonsensical. Sweet fuck.
Anyway, Harry was cast well (beautiful eyes on that guy, I swear) and I really liked his story up until the rushed closing act where I wasn't able to make heads or tails of his mental state. And, yeah, the closing act with Harry as the Goblin felt very rushed compared to the rest of the movie, which had clicked along at a great pace (a lot of reviews have said it felt dragged on, but I never felt that way; it could have stood to be a little longer, actually).
So, in the course of writing this, I actually think I've concluded that the second Raimi film is stronger, though this movie might succeed at feeling the most like what a Spider-Man movie should?
Oh, but please fix that fucking embarrassing thing you're calling the Rhino, Webb. That is not Rhino, and I smack you on the nose for acting like it is.
For that matter, why was he even in the trailers for being in this movie so little? Not that I have a problem with him being in the movie (in fact, I love the note this ended on), but the Goblin received less trailer attention and actually mattered way more to the plot.
And, uh, if we're assembling a team, Harry, why is Rhino already out on the streets making a mess and preparing to get his ass handed to him as he goes back to prison or dies in battle? Did the spider venom undo your common sense?
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Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Just once I'd like to see a movie where someone makes a 'we can't be together' promise and actually keeps it. No takebacks, no convenient plot turns, they just both stick to their guns and move on.
[/spoiler]
Gwen's death actually surprised me, even though I knew about the comics. I didn't think the directors would actually have the guts to go through with it.
I'm not going to compare Raimi and Webb, each has strengths and weaknesses. I remember being annoyed at TASM 1's 'those are the best kind' line, though- Dude, her Dad just died! Having a boyfriend does not negate grief!
I hear reviewers thought the valedictorian speech was too heavy handed in foreshadowing, but I thought it worked in light of the recent death of her Dad. How long has it been since movie one, do we know?
I'm not going to compare Raimi and Webb, each has strengths and weaknesses. I remember being annoyed at TASM 1's 'those are the best kind' line, though- Dude, her Dad just died! Having a boyfriend does not negate grief!
I hear reviewers thought the valedictorian speech was too heavy handed in foreshadowing, but I thought it worked in light of the recent death of her Dad. How long has it been since movie one, do we know?
[/spoiler]
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Touche. But it's still a rarity, especially in superhero movies.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
I've been meaning to reply since you posted this, but I kept getting interrupted by life.
Numbering my responses, not necessarily in the order which you laid them out:
1.) I think Peter didn't want to give his blood to Harry because he knew Harry would be reckless with it. Harry didn't run any preliminary tests on the spider venom, what makes you think he'd run a preliminary test on Peter's blood? Yeah, he can't make Harry die more, but he could potentially turn him into a giant spider or something (or I guess a creepy goblin with frazzled hair that magically regains its sleek shine when it wears off).
I got the impression from the film that the reason why Norman lived as long as he did was because he had subjected himself to a multitude of scientific experiments. Did anyone else notice how goblin-like he look when he was speaking with Harry in that one scene? I don't think Harry would last nearly as long unless he did the same. He was panicked and desperate. You just can't trust a guy like that to be smart.
2.) I hate the back story involving Peter's parents in the comic as well. Why couldn't they just be normal people who died normal deaths? Why do they have to be special? No thank you to that, and that supposed secret sister he apparently knew nothing about.
HOWEVER, I actually love what they have done with his parents in these movies. It's all connected, and nothing was coincidental. Peter got his powers because he went searching for clues to his parent's deaths. It fits. Itworks. I like it.
3.) I think the point of Roosevelt was to give Peter a secret lab to use as his very own. I bet we can expect to see him using it in future movies.
4.) I never liked the Rhino as a villain so it doesn't bother me what they did to him at all. I just don't think original comic Rhino as is would translate well to the big screen. That and there's some slight basis for the change given that he's somewhat mechanical in the Ultimate comics.
5.)I do agree with you about the ending. I actually really loved the ending, even though I guess a lot of people didn't. It ended on a hopeful note for the future. I just think that, if the Rhino is supposed to be a key figure in the Sinister Six in this franchise, then he probably shouldn't have been introduced here. It should have been a random robber or group of robbers, or maybe even a lesser-known villain from Spidey's rogue gallery that they don't plan on using in the future. But who knows? A friend of mine suggested maybe we'll get to see that fight in its entirety in the next film. Could be interesting.
6.) Lastly, yes yes yes on the Classic Spidey. I spent the entire film with a childish grin on my face because of how thrilled I was at how right they get his characterization. The script leaves room for lots of quipping, and Andrew Garfield is a fabulous actor that can deliver them flawlessly. There was one tiny moment where I could have sworn I heard his British accent showing, but it was very brief and didn't ruin anything.
I got the impression from the film that the reason why Norman lived as long as he did was because he had subjected himself to a multitude of scientific experiments. Did anyone else notice how goblin-like he look when he was speaking with Harry in that one scene? I don't think Harry would last nearly as long unless he did the same. He was panicked and desperate. You just can't trust a guy like that to be smart.
2.) I hate the back story involving Peter's parents in the comic as well. Why couldn't they just be normal people who died normal deaths? Why do they have to be special? No thank you to that, and that supposed secret sister he apparently knew nothing about.
HOWEVER, I actually love what they have done with his parents in these movies. It's all connected, and nothing was coincidental. Peter got his powers because he went searching for clues to his parent's deaths. It fits. Itworks. I like it.
3.) I think the point of Roosevelt was to give Peter a secret lab to use as his very own. I bet we can expect to see him using it in future movies.
4.) I never liked the Rhino as a villain so it doesn't bother me what they did to him at all. I just don't think original comic Rhino as is would translate well to the big screen. That and there's some slight basis for the change given that he's somewhat mechanical in the Ultimate comics.
5.)I do agree with you about the ending. I actually really loved the ending, even though I guess a lot of people didn't. It ended on a hopeful note for the future. I just think that, if the Rhino is supposed to be a key figure in the Sinister Six in this franchise, then he probably shouldn't have been introduced here. It should have been a random robber or group of robbers, or maybe even a lesser-known villain from Spidey's rogue gallery that they don't plan on using in the future. But who knows? A friend of mine suggested maybe we'll get to see that fight in its entirety in the next film. Could be interesting.
6.) Lastly, yes yes yes on the Classic Spidey. I spent the entire film with a childish grin on my face because of how thrilled I was at how right they get his characterization. The script leaves room for lots of quipping, and Andrew Garfield is a fabulous actor that can deliver them flawlessly. There was one tiny moment where I could have sworn I heard his British accent showing, but it was very brief and didn't ruin anything.
And to add one additional observation that I made in this franchise:
Has anyone else noticed that Andrew Garfield gives Peter a bit of a New York twang when he speaks? Especially when the mask is on and he's out superheroing. Most (more like all) actors to play him in the past I feel all gave him the standard regular American accent. In this franchise, he actually speaks more like he really is from New York. And why wouldn't he? I actually really like it. I feel it adds an extra layer to the character.
I mean, it isn't super thick, but I can hear it from time to time.
I mean, it isn't super thick, but I can hear it from time to time.
Or am I the only one who noticed?
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The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
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- TresDias
Nope, I noticed it too.
On to your points:
On a tangent, your post reaffirms why I really wish you didn't live so far away that I can't ask you out.
On to your points:
1) Harry didn't have a chance to run tests on the spider venom because of the circumstances with his ousting. His desperation got to the point it did because of a series of events beginning with Pete saying no. Also, none of that had happened yet and couldn't have factored into Peter's decision.
As far as trust goes, again, if Pete can trust a chick -- whose dad wants to arrest him, no less -- because he wants to get in her pants, then he should be able to trust Harry, whom he credits with helping him get through a hard time in his young life.
And ironically enough, had Pete given him the blood, Harry would have probably been just fine. The spider venom requires Pete's genetics to stabilize it. If he had just given it to him, he wouldn't have become the Goblin.
2) Yeah, it does work here, I agree. I still hate the idea itself, but if you're going to go that route, this is the only way to do it -- Pete becomes a superhero as a consequence of his parents' backstory.
3) But why were his parents so concerned with it?
4) I love the surprisingly complicated character of the Rhino, and while you're probably right that he wouldn't translate well directly, there was no reason to do him like this. The mechanical thing doesn't bother me much (the guns do, though). It's making him a complete moron who can't pronounce a single intelligible, discernible sentence I can't accept. Rhino was never outright stupid. He's actually extremely contemplative, even if not a genius.
As far as trust goes, again, if Pete can trust a chick -- whose dad wants to arrest him, no less -- because he wants to get in her pants, then he should be able to trust Harry, whom he credits with helping him get through a hard time in his young life.
And ironically enough, had Pete given him the blood, Harry would have probably been just fine. The spider venom requires Pete's genetics to stabilize it. If he had just given it to him, he wouldn't have become the Goblin.
2) Yeah, it does work here, I agree. I still hate the idea itself, but if you're going to go that route, this is the only way to do it -- Pete becomes a superhero as a consequence of his parents' backstory.
3) But why were his parents so concerned with it?
4) I love the surprisingly complicated character of the Rhino, and while you're probably right that he wouldn't translate well directly, there was no reason to do him like this. The mechanical thing doesn't bother me much (the guns do, though). It's making him a complete moron who can't pronounce a single intelligible, discernible sentence I can't accept. Rhino was never outright stupid. He's actually extremely contemplative, even if not a genius.
On a tangent, your post reaffirms why I really wish you didn't live so far away that I can't ask you out.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
1.) Good point. However, I feel that Peter still had cause for concern. I mean, remember what Harry said when Peter mentioned Dr. Conners? "Conners was weak, this is me, Peter." So, just being Harry Osborn is good enough for things not to go wrong? If I were Peter, I wouldn't give Harry my blood, either.
We also don't know if Peter's blood would have had the desired effect just because of his dad putting his own DNA into the spiders. As I said before, what if it had some other effect? Giant Spider?
2.) Indeed.
3.) Because just in case something happened to them the truth would be there for someone else to find. Oscorp is up to no good, and the world needs to know.
4.) I guess it's all down to a matter of personal preference.
We also don't know if Peter's blood would have had the desired effect just because of his dad putting his own DNA into the spiders. As I said before, what if it had some other effect? Giant Spider?
2.) Indeed.
3.) Because just in case something happened to them the truth would be there for someone else to find. Oscorp is up to no good, and the world needs to know.
4.) I guess it's all down to a matter of personal preference.
And wow, um, I guess you could always just move to Minnesota.