Sony's... Surprisingly Well-Conceived VENOM Films

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Interesting, because I feel completely the opposite, though I'd guess you and I have fundamentally different views on Venom's character, probably BECAUSE of how we see Spider-Man's role in his story. I've honestly found Venom significantly more interesting than Spider-Man ever since playing Maximum Carnage back in '94 since that was really my exposure to the character since I didn't properly read comics until way later in my life. (That's exacerbated now because I've continually grown largely disinterested in Peter Parker, and vastly more interested in the derivative incarnations he lead to: case in point, I'm currently only reading Miles Morales, Gwen, & Venom's ongoing series from the Spider-fam).


I'd be more than willing to venture that most folk who're interested in seeing a Venom film are most interested in seeing something actually about Venom being the main focus. Venom already being the extant Anti-Hero and digging into more about the Symbiotes rather than retreading the Black Suit relationship with Spider-Man where Venom only really exists in the later half and basically just gets to exist as the villain placed directly in Spider-Man's shadow is the best way to do that.

It's worth remembering that Spider-Man Homecoming didn't even cover Peter's origin story (because it's been done to death), and Marvel even did the same thing with The Incredible Hulk by showing the origin in the opening credit montage. Those both show that no matter how pivotal something in an origin is (like Spidey being the first Symbiote host), it's clear that if the most bare basics of a superhero is known well enough by the audience, you can make a successful first film for a new incarnation of a character that ISN'T an origin film. It's not a surprise that Sony's going for the same thing here with Venom, given that he's a massively popular character AND (like it or not) Spider-Man 3 still has the highest worldwide gross of ANY Spider-Man film and Venom was in it. That helps get his story on his feet, since it's a mess it is to get from the origin of the Black Suit, through the interactions Peter has with it, and then into making the Symbiote pair with Eddie to a point where he could take center stage as the main character. So long as the audience has even the most loose basic awareness of Venom, that's totally sufficient for what's needed here, especially insofar as the start of Lethal Protector is concerned.

There's a reason Venom is still one of the most popular characters in things like Marvel Vs. Capcom — and it's not because he used to be a costume for Spider-Man. The draw is all about Eddie's relationship with his fluid extraterrestrial Symbiote, monstrous muscle-bound appearance paired with being an anti-hero. If they want Venom to stand on his own, it makes sense to focus on the origin of who he is as his own hero APART from the connection to Spider-Man — which is really what Lethal Protector and Planet of the Symbiotes are all about, and why the former is how they started Venom's first solo comic series. The story gives him a purpose and development of his own focused on Eddie and the Symbiote where Spider-Man's involvement is entirely tertiary. It gave Eddie a fresh start in a new city and focused on that like a new origin story for him there. On top of that, Planet of the Symbiotes gives the other side of the development to their pair, so that we understand the Symbiote's point of view, and what makes it unique, and ultimately how their relationship together solidifies itself in the very last panel:

"We are content. We've reconciled our ambivalence, accepted what we are. Saving an entire world brought that home once and for all. Now we know it is our immutable destiny to protect innocents, no matter the cost. Which of us decided how to reach that goes is irrelevant; its achievement is all that truly matters. And for that reason, we are… and will always remain… Venom!"



tl;dr — Venom is always better the less you focus on Spider-Man and the more give him room to breathe and be his own hero, and that's exactly what the stories they're using do, because it can be a successful without being an origin story.





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JechtShotMK9

The Sublimely Magnificent One
AKA
Kamiccolo9
I dunno, I think it's pretty much all about the badass costume. Nobody gives a shit about Eddie "It's your fault my life was ruined because I lied about the work I did for my job" Brock.

That being said, I freely admit my long-held bias to my Octopi and Goblins, and consider it undisputable that Venom contributed greatly to the complete and utter shit that was Spider-Man comics in the 90s.

He was great until he got the stupid tongue, though. McFarlane!Venom was fantastic :P
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Well, I at least agree with your first paragraph and last sentence, JSMK9. :monster:

tl;dr — Venom is always better the less you focus on Spider-Man and the more give him room to breathe and be his own hero, and that's exactly what the stories they're using do, because it can be a successful without being an origin story.

I think we're using "successful" and "work" differently. I'm saying this movie will surprise the hell out of me if it's successful in the way that sees it get a sequel. It could be great; I just don't think it's going to have the draw they want, especially if that trailer is the best they can do to market the thing.

We'll see, though, and hopefully I'm wrong. :monster:
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I think if they SKIP THE FUCKING BACKSTORY except in brief, they could do something interesting with this. Keep the timeline vague, just have Eddie mention he did some bad things in his past, made a friend, did some worse things, now he's trying to turn things around in San Fran. Have him be actively investigating the company making the symbiotes, maybe have him feel responsible for their creation and escape. The film doesn't need to be shakespeare. Just needs to give us a decent antihero and a redeption story.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
tl;dr — Venom is always better the less you focus on Spider-Man and the more give him room to breathe and be his own hero, and that's exactly what the stories they're using do, because it can be a successful without being an origin story.

I think we're using "successful" and "work" differently. I'm saying this movie will surprise the hell out of me if it's successful in the way that sees it get a sequel. It could be great; I just don't think it's going to have the draw they want, especially if that trailer is the best they can do to market the thing.

We'll see, though, and hopefully I'm wrong. :monster:

This makes a lot of sense. :awesomonster:

I'm still gonna hold out for the proper trailer when we see the content along with the VFX shots to see how it REALLY lands with people. (Until then we've just got the stand in physical prop for his partial transformation)

I like the BASIC premise that they both feel a bit jaded by Spider-Man at first, but everything's better once it moves past all that. The current Venom comic about Eddie & the Symbiote's relationship has been REALLY fucking awesome.
They treat the two reuniting like a toxic relationship where they both really love each other, and slowly dig into the specifics of it, and what both of them have done since their "breakup" especially because the Symbiote got briefly bonded with someone who used it to murder a bunch of people after it got separated from Flash, and had it in a bad way. They've been managing a delicate balance of how they shape one another for good and worse, and it's been super solid.





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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Looks like Marvel might be setting up some things to help attempt to tie in their comic sales with the movie release. Apart from the "Venomized" event that's currently going on (which I'm gonna be thoroughly enjoying), the Venom comic #164 just started off a brand new arc called, "The Nativity". In the first issue, we get flashbacks to the other Symbiotes from Lethal Protector, as well as Carnage, a paramilitary organization capturing Eddie Brock, and foreshadowing about the Venom Symbiote spawning.

From what we know of the film, that all seems to be close to in-line with the general plot points it's drawing from. If that IS the case, it'll be neat to treat this as a loose preview of the film, but also interesting to see a move like this, since Marvel doesn't own the Venom film, but it looks like they're doing their part to get some comic and film cross-pollination going on, which is really good for fans looking to dive in on comics after seeing a film, which the rest of the MCU titles have had a bit of a rough time with, since the films and comics are so different.

Either way, Venom is still in my regular reading schedule, and given that we'll have probably 6-7 issues of this arc by the time the film releases, I'd bet that these things are related, but I'll keep posting about it here if that's the case. I can also spoiler tag if necessary.





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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X


I am excite.

Also, the trailer says, "In assocation with Marvel Entertainment" which makes me feel like this has the potential to be MCU-adjacent. It isn't Marvel Studios like Spider-Man Homecoming, but it feels like this is where the R-rated land sits.

New poster: https://twitter.com/VenomMovie/status/988627612229558272

It feels like they made this trailer to push back the naysayers, and likely drop with Infinity War, while still holding some developments back.





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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I really love the voice, and was surprised that Tom Hardy does Venom's as well. I think that we're still likely to see some polish on the effects between now and the final film, but they've REALLY got down the bigger things I was hoping for. The way the suit folds over his face is RIGHT out of the comics.

The way that the presence of the Symbiote is functionally invisible until it lashes out is really neat, if a little bit Prototype-y. They're doing a pretty solid job of giving him webbing without JUST making it a Spider-Man emulation, and the tendrils make the ultra-long tongue feel more like something that works than just an odd aesthetic choice. It'll be interesting to see if they end up using the suit to make him invisible and bullet resistance at points, but it feels like we're just getting a small hint of the big picture.

Insofar as what the trailer has, the shots that we see all still feel pretty introductory, and that they're not giving away big moments of the film. Like in Lethal Protector – we've got the lab experimenting on people with Symbiotes, Eddie escaping, and the questioning of the nature of their relationship with one another. Yup. Totally pleased with where this looks to be taking things.





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Mage

She/They
AKA
Mage
I had a sex wee and I'm not a fan of Tom Hardy. Good actor but I can't see why so many lasses get moist over him.
 

Carlie

CltrAltDelicious
AKA
Chloe Frazer
I'm now meh about this which I guess is a lot better than thinking it was going to be a disaster when it was first announced.
 
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