SPOILERS Split from "Hopes for the remake (story/content)"

[Makoeyes987]

I wish I could say that it does for me. The Fabula Nova Crystallis concepts were based on a baseline something before meandering into nonsense they couldn't even bother to explain with consistent rules or terminology -- before ultimately giving up and just deciding "Eh, you know what, let's do another Lifestream."

I think they've learned a lot from that project, especially with their desire to scrap that overarching framework entirely with XV, and doing their level best to keep the relevant fantasy lore apparent and explained within the story. I doubt we're getting something nearly as convoluted or lore-deep like that now in VII. I personally loved that mythology myself, but it was a perfect example of the super-lore-Lore-LORE heavy storyline trends of early 2000s JRPGs. I think Square's moved away from that vein of storytelling now.

....Except Kingdom Hearts, because they still love doing that shit. That's kind of it's thing now.

If anything, you can see how Kingdom Hearts is a franchise still stuck in the 2002-2005 trappings of it's creation. It has not moved past that era of expression at all. It has in fact, it's baked them into its core identity. The awkward early 2000 esque character animations and methods of emoting Kingdom Hearts characters still do to this day, is a perfect example. But that's apparently it's charm now.

Suffice to say, I don't think that's at work here. The fact we didn't have to hunt every corner of the game for Hojo Reports that explain random shit that should've been said earlier and that hint at things in a sequel to come is proof of that, right there. We're not hearing Somnus play as Noctis Yozora walks out of the Shinra Building, sword in hand, and then face off against Cloud while crystal fragments rise up from the ground. Although that would look pretty badass, admittedly.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Suffice to say, I don't think that's at work here. The fact we didn't have to hunt every corner of the game for Hojo Reports that explain random shit that should've been said earlier and that hint at things in a sequel to come is proof of that, right there.

Give it time.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Give it time.

LOL while that's true and always remains a possibility, I think we should take the small victories and proofs of positive storytelling growth as they come.

Of course they could shit the bed. However, I personally feel they are doing their level best to not be stupid. It's ambitious, it's weird but I can see the potential. And I like and respect wierdness when it means something. Even if it comes off wholly bizarre as fuck.

It's not "Kitase shaking hands with a cosplaying Gackt" levels of brain-melting madness and narm. Maybe I'm setting the bar low but the fact we've gone beyond that and they care this much about making the Remake good and true, fills me with hope.

 

[KindOfBlue]

The Singularity and time travel does somewhat require dipping one's toes into at least FFIX to explain at the moment.

Haven’t played that one, though I’d rather just wait for future installments of FF7R to explain itself and I think we’re all better off doing the same

 

[Clement Rage]

I don't think you need any other story to explain FF7R, it's just a convenient illustrative example. It's not evidence of a storytelling failing. I keep using Legacy of Kain because it's an instance of an awesome time traveling story, not because I think LOK and FF are linked by the cosmos.

So far, I don't see a thematic clash in the whispers. Defying fate slots right into the existing theme of refuting the 'you are a puppet' thing.

I was bothered playing by the fact that AVALANCHE couldn't achieve anything Shinra didn't allow them to, because I thought that was a thematic clash. Maybe we're all jumping to conclusions too soon.

 

[Odysseus]

I think it helps that FF7R has a pre-existing framework to draw from. The way the story is actually conveyed to the player is still more or less the same as it was in the original game, with all the relevant information coming in the form of exposition from cutscenes, with NPC dialogue there to flesh things out a little more. Had this been an original concept there's a higher chance we'd see some of square's shittier tendencies towards conveying information crop up, data files, in game glossaries, etc. That's not to say they haven't learned their lesson somewhat, all new information is still explained in the same way as the old stuff, even the infamous whispers get a rough explanation, though it's definitely left vague and confusing on purpose. I don't think they want you to really understand what happened a the end of the game yet. I guess time will tell if this trend tracks across all the entries.

I was bothered playing by the fact that AVALANCHE couldn't achieve anything Shinra didn't allow them to, because I thought that was a thematic clash. Maybe we're all jumping to conclusions too soon.

I think this works thematically because it plays into the "puppet" element of the story as well. Avalanche thinks they're making a difference, but in reality they're just playing right into Shinra's plan. It's similar to Cloud and Sephiroth's relationship in the later part of the story. In the end all they do is allow Shinra to spread their propaganda and make them look better.

It's not "Kitase shaking hands with a cosplaying Gackt" levels of brain-melting madness and narm.

Is this a picture that exists? I need to see it.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I think this works thematically because it plays into the "puppet" element of the story as well. Avalanche thinks they're making a difference, but in reality they're just playing right into Shinra's plan.

In a similar way, I guess by choosing to “defy fate” we’re also playing into Sephiroth’s plan

 

[Makoeyes987]

Is this a picture that exists? I need to see it.

I misremembered this.

It's Nomura shaking hands with Gackt.

.... But that doesn't make it any less ridiculous.



Imagine being CEO and being asked to greenlight this.

But it's okay... Every franchise gets one stupid publicity stunt. It was the early 2000s, it was a wild ride. We've moved past this and I'm glad FFVII is out of this phase. Never tie your legit main character to a real life celebrity, because then you do not fully own them, stupid.

But it's okay now. They got it out of their system so it'll never ever happen again. Never. Fucking. Again.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Kitase was on hand for the occasion, though, and probably shook hands with Gackt for a picture that has been lost to the sands of time.

So far, I don't see a thematic clash in the whispers. Defying fate slots right into the existing theme of refuting the 'you are a puppet' thing.

Defying fate could potentially be shaped into a case of asserting self-identity, but that on its own strikes me as a very different theme from FFVII's examples of self-actualization in defiance of self-imposed limitations or others' expectations and manipulations.

What @Odysseus and @KindOfBlue highlight -- how defying fate played into Sephiroth's hands -- does fit quite well within the existing puppetry conceit, though. I'm reminded of these lines from Cloud: "I wasn't pursuing Sephiroth. I was being summoned by Sephiroth."

 

[Odysseus]

Remind me to frame that picture and hang it on my wall

 

[Makoeyes987]

I look at that picture of the FFVII team announcing "Project G," which they unironically named their Gackt Collaboration, and can only see this image in response.



I mean, I get everyone at the time had Gackt fever. Gackt was popular and he can make some fire ass music. Hell, I loved Redemption. But Jesus... You're FFVII. You don't have to do this... Ever again.

 

[looneymoon]

should have gone with Miyavi instead

 

[Odysseus]

You're FFVII. You don't have to do this... Ever again.

Justin Beiber stars in FF7 Remake part 2 as "Super Nintendo," Sephiroth's long lost brother.

 

[Rydeen]

There really isn’t an excuse for such a stupid publicity stunt in such a cherished universe. It was stupid and disrespectful to everyone, period.

 

[Odysseus]

It's pretty funny though

 

[Tetsujin]

I loved it, it made me a Gackt fan






Still hate Genesis though

 

[Clement Rage]

I think having no clue who Gackt was may have benefited my perspectives on CC.

 

[Ite]

Am I the only one who sees no difference between Project G and the rest of the Compilation/Remake? As in, it’s the passion brainchild of some very ambitious and dedicated creatives who are interested primarily in being hip and aesthetic and otherwise lacking in maturity or restraint. The XIII trilogy is the same thing. So is X-2. So is KH. It’s all the same.

 

[KindOfBlue]

"I wasn't pursuing Sephiroth. I was being summoned by Sephiroth."

I remember feeling chills when I first read that line, that and when Cloud begs Hojo to give him a number

As in, it’s the passion brainchild of some very ambitious and dedicated creatives who are interested primarily in being hip and aesthetic and otherwise lacking in maturity or restraint.

I think it’s a consequence of how exceptionally well the OG is to point of it being almost accidentally brilliant. Some creatives don’t live long enough to ever surpass their magnum opus because being able to harness that power to hit most, if not all, the right notes that resonate with the most people is something few can do at will and very few can do multiple times. It’s probably one of the saddest side effects of being a successful artist (not that I would know, but still ).

 

[Makoeyes987]

Am I the only one who sees no difference between Project G and the rest of the Compilation/Remake? As in, it’s the passion brainchild of some very ambitious and dedicated creatives who are interested primarily in being hip and aesthetic and otherwise lacking in maturity or restraint. The XIII trilogy is the same thing. So is X-2. So is KH. It’s all the same.

Like. Come on, man.

That's like comparing the prequel-sequel movies of Star Wars to the infamous Star Wars Holiday Special.

Like... There's nuance to this, sir.

There's having wild creative fun and then there's clown shit.

Gackt cosplaying and owning the rights of a fictional character's face because S-E used his face, is clown shit. Pure and simple. Nothing compares to that.

JRPGs are not all....

This. This is Clown Time. Starring Gackt.

 

[looneymoon]

I'm sorry but...

his fucking cornrows

 

[Makoeyes987]

Gackt Genesis deserves to stay sealed in that water prison under Midgar forever for that fashion crime, alone.

No wonder the goddamn planet rejected him. Minerva saw that clown photo and was not impressed.

Like I said, 2006 to 2010 were some wild ass times.

 

[Odysseus]

I'm just glad Gackt was limited to two songs and a cheesy post credits scene in dirge, it would hamper my dumb enjoyment of that game if he was in it more.

 

[Rydeen]

At the risk of getting even more off topic, I actually feel like 2007-2013 was a really bad era in gaming in general.

 

[Makoeyes987]

At the risk of getting even more off topic, I actually feel like 2007-2013 was a really bad era in gaming in general.

I think it's more mixed. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

Gackt being a publicity stunt character was the darkness.

However, there were a lot of games and other anime stuff that I came to love and a lot of those things were more experimental. It was the beginning of the HD age of gaming and media so creative forces were finding their groove.

Overall, I feel nostalgic for the non-clown shit that came from it.