[Spoilers] Material Ultimania Plus discussion

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
You know I just realized, in Intermission, if you try to enter Seventh Heaven, the whispers will push you away. Yet even after being touched by them, Yuffie can't see them. If we take Toriyama's response about who can see the whispers to its logical conclusion, then it would appear Yuffie isn't essential to the fate of the planet. :lol:
Well she was an optional character before...

Until she joins the party, she ain't part of the destiny club. :monster:
 

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
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Ultimasamune
Is that what was said? "Anyone not essential to the fate of the planet, cannot see the Whispers."
It essentially said the two prerequisites for being able to see them are a) touching them and b) being important to the flow of the planet's destiny. Toriyama says Cloud is able to see them when he touches the whispers themselves, not when he touches Aerith, although the cinematic focus in that scene certainly makes it look otherwise. It's up to you how much stock you want to put in a secondary source like the Ultimania.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
See, I take that translation to mean that because Cloud touched Aerith, who had the Whispers "clinging to her," he was able to then see said Whispers.

Not from actually touching the Whispers themselves. That's how it reads to me, at least.

So basically, it's "our characters can see the time ghosts when we need them to see the time ghosts".
I mean, it is a story, so that's how it always boils down to. It's not like these things exist or act independently of a writer's intent. These magical things are crafted this way for the sake of a story, and we're just learning what the in-narrative function and mechanism is.
 
"Cloud is only able to see the Whispers once he comes in contact with them as they were clinging to Aerith."

So if Cloud had touched Aerith when the Whispers were not around, he would not have automatically been given the sight. On one hand this moderately diminishes the joke of Aerith as a spreader of Spiritually Transmitted Diseases (:awesome:) as now she is merely a temporary conduit, on the other hand it makes it easier to imagine that Aerith wouldn't have accidentally given hundreds of people the sight over the course of her lifetime.

Yes, only select main characters are able to get the sight in the first place, but I think it's more elegant to imagine that touching Aerith does not automatically make you see the Whispers.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
In a sense, the metatextual reason some characters (i.e. the Turks) can't see the Whispers while the main characters can is basically the same as the in-universe explanation: they're not that important in the grand scheme of things (destiny/the plot) so there's no reason for them to see them, it wouldn't change anything.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
So if Cloud had touched Aerith when the Whispers were not around, he would not have automatically been given the sight. On one hand this moderately diminishes the joke of Aerith as a spreader of Spiritually Transmitted Diseases (:awesome:) as now she is merely a temporary conduit, on the other hand it makes it easier to imagine that Aerith wouldn't have accidentally given hundreds of people the sight over the course of her lifetime.

Yes, only select main characters are able to get the sight in the first place, but I think it's more elegant to imagine that touching Aerith does not automatically make you see the Whispers.
I mean, that's kinda how I understood it anyways, but I see the confusion or need for clarification now.

The ability to see the Whispers aren't an inherent trait (or syndrome) spread passed on because of Aerith alone.

It's because she's a conduit of sorts. I thought that was the reason as is, not seriously because Aerith had some strange thing that was communicable by her :monster:

Could Biggs, Wedge and Jessie see them?
Yes, remember Jessie and them were shooting at the Arbiters of Fate when they were "attacking" Seventh Heaven and the slums?
 
But she touches the whispers, which according to the most recent Ultimania interview is enough to let *important* characters see them.
Maybe simply touching the "wall" the Whispers generate is not enough. Maybe the wall is like some Windaja spell and so touching that one isn't to strictly speaking get in contact with a Whisper? I dunno. Maybe Yuffie just isn't important. Or it doesn't count because that scene of Yuffie "touching" the Whispers-wall at the entrance to 7th Heaven is optional.
 
Only Jessie is shooting. I don't know if Biggs and Wedge ever see them. I'm not 100% sure Jessie can see them. Is Jessie crucial to destiny/the plot in a way that Reno and Rude aren't? I mean, if Reno and Rude don't drop the plate, where's the plot?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Jessie saw them because she was asking and confused about what they were. She was aiming at them.

Wedge apparently saw them because he was swatting his hands at them both times they were trying to make him stick to his destiny and die.

The Whispers probably considered them important enough to be seen because they had to die to align with fate. In a dark way, because of the way the OG is, their deaths were part of the fate of the Planet. I don't think the Whispers decide who gets to see them, I think it's like a side effect.
 
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Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
The commonality is them coming into contact with someone being monitored by the whispers, not just the whispers in general. Not sure how big a difference that makes but whatever. Anyway,
Obviously she is as important as Biggs, Jessie, and Wedge to the story.... right?
If we infer "destiny" to mean "the plot of the original ff7," then no, she really isn't actually. You never have to recruit her, so her presence is immaterial to the original progression of events. Also see: My horrified reaction to the fact that everything the turks do after Midgar is totally optional or pointless in the overall story.
I mean, if Reno and Rude don't drop the plate, where's the plot?
Literally nothing they do after that matters, and they would have done that regardless of if they saw ghosts or not. It's kind of hilarious actually.
Is Jessie crucial to destiny/the plot in a way that Reno and Rude aren't?
If she hadn't been injured, Cloud wouldn't have gone on the mission to reactor 5. I guess that's why she became someone "important." Similar to why Wedge had to be shoved out a window. His survival was an issue.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I have to imagine each and every party member will have an integral part to play in Remake. I highly doubt they'll let Yuffie and Vincent blend into the background this time around, nor the Turks, for that matter.
Yeah but that's the remake's version of events, which evidently aren't going to strictly be in-line with """DESTINY""" so any newfound relevance these characters have there doesn't matter to the whispers and their plot STD.
 
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