Geostigma and Stagnant Lifestream are different. They aren't naturally occuring substances at all, but creations made by Sephiroth utilizing Jenova cells and the spirit energy of those who died of Geostigma. Those who die with Geostigma are trapped in the despair and pain from the disease and it taints their spirit energy into something corrupted and toxic to the planet. That's what the Negative Lifestream is.
Stagnant Lifestream is naturally stagnated and darkness elemental spirit energy. It occurs naturally on the Planet and its purpose is to birth Chaos. Stagnant Lifestream is darkness that's natural and Negative Lifestream is Sephiroth created corruption and darkness.
That makes sense to me. I remember there was some speculation that the corrupted Lifestream that caused the Protomateria to crystallize in Lucrecia's Cave was the result of geostigma inflicted by Jenova when it arrived 2000+ years ago, and that it sort of slowly built up over time as part of a cycle of planetary renewal. This would throw a wrench in that, certainly.
Yeah, that's contradicted by the Omega Reports of Dirge of Cerberus. This one describes it specifically.
Impurities
The spring that Dr. Valentine discovered is amazing! I am certain that
it is some sort of reservoir for the "terra corrupt" mentioned on the
Cetra tablet.
The doctor believes the crystalline spring contains contaminated
deposits of bioplasma that have overflown from the pure Lifestream. In
fact, all of our readings indicate a strange type of energy radiating
from the site. Could this grotto be the location where the legendary
Chaos is destined to be born?
They are two *very* different things. Geostigma/Negative Lifestream have Sephiroth's consciousness at the helm and it is combating the "Positive" Lifestream. They're essentially the enemy of the other.
Stagnant Lifestream is *part* of the "Positive" Lifestream that is... essentially "reserved" for whenever it needs to unleash Chaos. It's still a part of the Planet rather than being separate from it.
A member of the elite Tsviet unit of Deepground soldiers.
Also known as Nero the Sable.
Wields power over darkness formed by the condensation of stagnated life, which he uses to engulf anything in his path.
It looks like 《淀みの力》/ "Stagnant Force" isn't one of his in-game abilities, so I'm guessing it's a cool RPG-flavored name for his powers in general.
Localization:
A member of an elite unit within Deepground known as the Tsviets. Also referred to as Nero the Sable. He is capable of manipulating darkness--a power born of corrupted energy--and uses it to consume anything that stands in his way.
I think the linguistic difference is pretty interesting. Corruption implies an outside agent that is responsible for tainting the Lifestream somehow, whereas stagnation is more of an incidental process that results when the Lifestream gets cut off or diverted by natural changes to like, the cosmic landscape through which it flows. The former sounds a lot more like the Negative Lifestream or at least the corrupting influence of Jenova that precedes it.
It garners an interesting way to look at it for sure—in this case, the terms aren't necessarily mutually exclusive and can be different descriptors for the same thing. "Corrupt" as a term can be a bit more flexible, in that it could be more in reference to what a stagnant part of the Lifestream can be considered as once it enters that unnatural state of being. The emphasis of the stagnant terminology (especially in the context for a baddie) says how much it's really not meant to be something that doesn't flow at all as it's supposed to. Almost like it's a disingenuous representation of the Lifestream at that point or something.
I will say, the English localization of FFVII has been all over the place and I've learned that you *really* cannot trust it. Especially when it comes to how the Lifestream and Jenova and just about anything metaphysical is described. It's just... very, very lose when it comes to how the English terms come across in English vs what the JP terms actually mean. It definetly feels like whoever is doing the localization comes at a lot of metaphysical terms sideways rather than directly and as a result you get words and adjectives that give a different meaning than what is actually described as going on. Which just makes a confusing concept even more confusing.
"Terra corrupt", corrupted lifestrem, and corrupted energy, *are not* "corrupt" in the way English uses the word "corrupt". Which nine time out of ten has to do with an outside entity changing something about another entity that isn't supposed to happen. "Corrupt" and "corruption" aren't what you call something when an entity is... organizing a part of itself so it doesn't get in the way of other parts of itself. Neither is "stagnation" for that matter, but at least that gets across the idea that part of the Lifestream isn't "flowing" anymore and always stays in one place. Which is what is going on with the part of the Lifestream that Chaos occupies....
Just... I'm at the point that if anything metaphysical in FFVII is described, my gut reaction is "what is the actual JP term used here and what kind of process is actually being described?" because over half the time, that ends up *un-complicating* FFVII's metaphysics/sci-fi terminology. Because the localization team chose a word that means something... *very* different then the actual concept they are trying to convey in English.
It's just... abundantly clear that whoever is doing localization doesn't have a good grasp on what the *idea* behind the terminology they are using is supposed to convey in English. So they wind up using/describing a similar, but wrong idea instead.
The use of "bioplasma" in that Omega Report labeled "Impurities" is probably a good example of potentially losing clarity for the sake of trying to make things sound "properly sci-fi." That was 命の欠片 ("splinters of life force"), which would probably be less confusing for some players.
(Here's that whole sentence, for posterity: それは、清き命の流れから溢れた命の欠片が集まる所だと博士は言っていた)
I really think that's all the problem is, though: trying to sound "properly sci-fi." I doubt whoever did the localization didn't get what the concept here was.
Well it's kind of a blast from the past, really, because apparently you guys have talked about it before years ago. lol Even back then, most seemed to put it in the perspective that a part of the Lifestream that becomes stagnant is considered "impure", "malicious", "corrupt", etc. Either way, conceptually, it's very possible it's a way we're supposed to think about it.
Well it's kind of a blast from the past, really, because apparently you guys have talked about it before years ago. lol Even back then, most seemed to put it in the perspective that a part of the Lifestream that becomes stagnant is considered "impure", "malicious", "corrupt", etc. Either way, conceptually, it's very possible it's a way we're supposed to think about it.
Corruption implies an outside agent that is responsible for tainting the Lifestream somehow, whereas stagnation is more of an incidental process that results when the Lifestream gets cut off or diverted by natural changes to like, the cosmic landscape through which it flows. The former sounds a lot more like the Negative Lifestream or at least the corrupting influence of Jenova that precedes it.
This is an excellent point. They've essentially flipped around the two titles the different "types" of Lifestream probably should have been called in English. Actually...
Jenova
『FFVII』 『AC』 『CC』 『DC』 『LO』
A life form from another planet that arrived on a meteorite about 2000 years ago. Its true nature has yet to be fully explained, but it is extremely intelligent and has the ability to mimic any living creature. It has an instinctive will to destroy the Planet, and was sealed away by the Ancients as the "Calamity From the Sky" because it was such a dangerous being. After being excavated by the Shinra Company, it was used as a precious resource for biological experiments. Now, together with the resulting Sephiroth, it is once again working to destroy the Planet. Although most of its body was lost during the Jenova War, its malevolent thoughts remain lurking in the Lifestream.
Geostigma
『АС』
A strange disease that has spread throughout the world since the Meteor Disaster, causing black discoloration of the skin. There is no cure, and those who develop the disease gradually become weakened by the pain they experience periodically, eventually leading to death. This is a symptom of an overactive immune system that is trying to reject the presence of Jenova in the body. Horribly, the spiritual energy of the dead who have Geostigma deviates from the normal circulation of life, and is incorporated into the Negative Lifestream - Jenova's inherited thoughts lurking in the Lifestream - to become part of the power that is eroding the Planet.
Jenova by all conventional use of the term *has* corrupted the Lifestream. She's (or rather, her thoughts) are described as "lurking in" the Lifestream itself. While trying to "erode" the Planet with the aim of destroying it. That's... more or less what something that corrupts something else very often does (metaphorically).
Well it's kind of a blast from the past, really, because apparently you guys have talked about it before years ago. lol Even back then, most seemed to put it in the perspective that a part of the Lifestream that becomes stagnant is considered "impure", "malicious", "corrupt", etc. Either way, conceptually, it's very possible it's a way we're supposed to think about it.
The trouble with this is how Chaos, the thing that is formed out of Stagnant Lifestream is described as being... part of the normal operation of the Lifestream in the Ultimania. Very dangerous, and not something the Lifestream wants getting woken up "too early", but not something that *shouldn't* be there. It's part of the "normal" lifecycle of the Lifestream and actually... something *good* in a way. It's there to help the Lifestream escape from the Planet (rock) should it ever have a need to do so. Without Chaos, the Lifestream would have to leave a part of itself behind when it did that. To the point it sounds like the Lifestream made part of itself "stagnent" *on purpose* to set Chaos up for when it needed it in the future.
The trouble with this is how Chaos, the thing that is formed out of Stagnant Lifestream is described as being... part of the normal operation of the Lifestream in the Ultimania. Very dangerous, and not something the Lifestream wants getting woken up "too early", but not something that *shouldn't* be there. It's part of the "normal" lifecycle of the Lifestream and actually... something *good* in a way. It's there to help the Lifestream escape from the Planet (rock) should it ever have a need to do so. Without Chaos, the Lifestream would have to leave a part of itself behind when it did that. To the point it sounds like the Lifestream made part of itself "stagnent" *on purpose* to set Chaos up for when it needed it in the future.
Admittedly it's been over a decade since I last looked at anything Dirge related lol But I'll agree it depends on truly the connotations that surround the nature of the Lifestream that is stagnant—whether it means something more than just the literal in descriptor of being "unmoving" unlike the way the normal part of the Lifestream is. It is kind of funny though that in my attempt at looking it up on Google, that old thread was the first thing to pop up. XD Though if there are negative implications in its functionality, then it being viewed as "corrupt" (if not being more susceptible to, perhaps?) in a certain perspective isn't too bad.
Need to be careful with the context here. The first Ultimania tells us those are the historical Jenova and Sephiroth calling out to each other in the past, not their present versions. Cloud is getting flashes of what he saw at the Nibelheim reactor.
Edit: I was wrong. Jenova is also calling to Cloud in the present-day scene.
Got it, so its in reference to the past during the Nibelheim Incident, that Jenova called to Sephiroth.
That's still extremely significant. It had always been ambiguous if Jenova was calling Sephiroth and mentally reaching out to him given his bizarre and erratic behavior while in its presence.
This confirms it. Jenova was telepathically speaking/calling to its "son." Jesus, that's pretty deep.
....lmao why am I imagining this as of some sort of twisted version of a Dive into the Heart sequence of Kingdom Hearts where Sephiroth falls onto a stain glass representation of his heart with all the people he's known and then it just fades to black and is replaced with Jenova as it speaks to him and tells him to choose his path forward? lol that'd actually look really fucking cool.
That's still extremely significant. It had always been ambiguous if Jenova was calling Sephiroth and mentally reaching out to him given his bizarre and erratic behavior while in its presence.
This confirms it. Jenova was telepathically speaking/calling to its "son." Jesus, that's pretty deep.
You're right, it would have been wonderful evidence to have around the last 20 years while we've all been trying to figure out whether Jenova still has a will or if it's just a corpse whose cells still exert a unique unifying power. I guess you could even still interpret this as Jenova's cells calling out to Sephiroth's Jenova cells, though....
You know the creepy thing? @odekopeko told me that it’s exactly the same line in Japanese when Cloud is talking to Elmyra and says he feels called. I’m questioning this scene, if he hears Jenova calling but thinks it’s Aerith because of his dream. Is this scene described in the Ultimania?
