[Spoilers] Material Ultimania Plus discussion

[Eerie]

Ody that's what I've thought for the longest time, that he's the last thing "living" on the Planet and it's about to end and he doesn't want to give up on his life.

 

[Odysseus]

Existential-Crisis

It's all comin' together now.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Mako is conflating "vision" with "illusion," which aren't necessarily the same.

Audrey's translation of Toriyama's commentary says Cloud and Sephiroth are in the Edge of Creation. That seems like an important distinction, like it's not just a vision or illusion. Their conversation and battle happened in a place known to us as the Edge of Creation, I dunno it just seems like it'd be weird for them to show Cloud being pulled somewhere else with Sephiroth waiting for him if it was all just like a vision or other sensory trick.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Audrey's translation of Toriyama's commentary says Cloud and Sephiroth are in the Edge of Creation. That seems like an important distinction, like it's not just a vision or illusion. Their conversation and battle happened in a place known to us as the Edge of Creation, I dunno it just seems like it'd be weird for them to show Cloud being pulled somewhere else with Sephiroth waiting for him if it was all just like a vision or other sensory trick.

Cloud's journey there is visually identical to their showdown at the end of the original game, though, and his body didn't move for that.

Also, the localization team seemed to understand the situation as a vision, as that's what the in-game summary of that portion of Chapter 18 calls it.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I'm not going to argue with you, just going to say that it doesn't seem like a big deal, reality or vision, it comes to the same thing in the end: something awful is bearing down on them, and whether or not it's turned aside is all on Cloud and the choices he makes.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cloud's journey there is visually identical to their showdown at the end of the original game, though, and his body didn't move for that.

Also, the localization team seemed to understand the situation as a vision, as that's what the in-game summary of that portion of Chapter 18 calls it.

Well that's a fair point.

Maybe his spirit was transported there, sorta like how his consciousness was transported to the Lifestream in the final battle of FFVII..

Either way I guess @LicoriceAllsorts raises an accurate point. Either way, the result is the same. It is the future, and a future where its fate lies on some indeterminate choice that Cloud will have to make.

 

[looneymoon]

you guys: discussion

my brain: Cloud, Tifa, Sephiroth, Aerith are all pool-pee-ers

 

[ultima786]

remembers Sephiroth and there's a connection to remind him of himself and connect to that point in the past, Sephiroth can use that to connect.

I think this is true but with one important addition: Jenova cells. Sephiroth can manifest not simply because Cloud has a strong memory of him, but because they share the genetic legacy of Jenova. Similar to the other black robes, except Cloud is more special because of their shared history. The bond is powerful between them and allows Sephiroth to forever be whole.

 

[ForceStealer]

Can't wait till part 3 has Sephiroth whisking Cloud's spirit off to Ivalice and then you have to play through Chapter 4 of FF Tactics before moving on.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And that's when we discover the true identity of the Sephiroth from Chapter 18.

Marquis Elmdore.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

They're one another's Variants.

 

[Theozilla]

This isn't quite true. The FFXIV expansions are about as contained to themselves as Remake is contained to itself. There is a "conclusion" to the expansions... just like getting out of Midgar was a "conclusion" to Remake. Everyone knows the story isn't over and the story never presents itself as being over at the end of an expansion.

Endwalker Expansion will be the closest thing to an "ending" FFXIV has ever gotten as it's the end of the Zodiark vs Hydaelyn conflict. To say it's similar to the ending Part of the Remake series (whenever that comes) isn't too far off.

FFXIV is what I keep comparing Remake Series to because the way they release stories is incredibly similar. FFXIV just has quite a few more "story dlc/patches" than Remake Series does which does effect how long fans feel they have to wait to get answers about certain things.

Remake ends up with longer dry spells than FFXIV does... and YMMV what has more to do in it. A game like Remake vs an MMO Expansion.

I have to disagree, the FFXIV expansions are designed from the start to stand on their own as their own stories, while also having overarching connections.
The Remake parts being relatively self-contained is the result of splitting up an original preexisting story, the Remake installments are only being relatively self contained out of necessity/compromise.

The FFXIV expansions are designed from the beginning to stand apart from each other, with different head writers sometimes even changing between each expansion.

Maybe that difference doesn’t seem that significant to you, but for myself, I see that as a pretty big difference in how a narrative is being unfolded/constructed. Which is why I think my painting/mural analogy is an apt comparison.

Or to make another analogy, as this is always useful, the FFXIV Expansions are like the Lord of the Rings books/trilogy, while the FFVII Remake is like the The Hobbit films. The former were inherently made to stand as their own distinct chapters of an overarching story, while the latter were split up and stand-alone stuff had to be added in because of the choice of splitting stuff up, it’s a more obvious addition/add-on.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Either way, I maintain that XIV's cast and character moments don't go largely ignored beside J.J. Abrams-esque "Mystery Box" shenanigans.

 

[Theozilla]

Neither does FFVII’s characters either though, like the popularity of the characters is the major part of why FFVII got a Remake.

Also I don’t really see FFXIV having any Mystery Box shenanigans (at least not intentional ones, plot lines from older material being dropped/not followed up on is a different matter).

 

[looneymoon]

I am making fun of the novel/new material privately so as to not shit on the party but I just had to share this little take on the Ultimanias in general lmfao.

 

[Odysseus]

During sex, Cloud insists Tifa call him "her little piss piss boy," because shame makes him horny. This makes her mildly uncomfortable.

 

[Shademp]

And just like that, the "Highwind scene" became way less romantic.

 

[Odysseus]

Also their dip into the lifestream made them both infertile. This is the real reason they adopted Denzel.

 

[Maidenofwar]

The novel so far makes me think Zack's reunion with Cloud, Aerith and Tifa hasn't happened yet.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I am making fun of the novel/new material privately so as to not shit on the party but I just had to share this little take on the Ultimanias in general lmfao.

View attachment 10774

Neither does FFVII’s characters either though, like the popularity of the characters is the major part of why FFVII got a Remake.

I specified that I'm talking about how the remake gets discussed.

 

[Theozilla]

I specified that I'm talking about how the remake gets discussed.

I know, and I am also saying I don’t think the Remake’s characters are being ignored anymore in discussion than FFXIV’s characters do.

 

[waw]

Not in the Material Files, but very cool world-building info...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415882135789920258

And the International War from the Early material Files is being brought back and we *finally* get the name of the country Shinra took over! Hum... wonder who they were fighitng against...

*looks at Wutai*

Republic of Junon that strethed to at least Nibelheim? Well... so we have a big reason, now, for why Rufus does his inauguration in Junon. However, if I'm not mistaken, before Shinra, Junon was just a teeny, tiny little town and they built the fortress over it.

I wonder if Junon was built over fishing village before Shinra took over.... something doesn't add up here.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Republic of Junon that strethed to at least Nibelheim? Well... so we have a big reason, now, for why Rufus does his inauguration in Junon. However, if I'm not mistaken, before Shinra, Junon was just a teeny, tiny little town and they built the fortress over it.

I wonder if Junon was built over fishing village before Shinra took over.... something doesn't add up here.

After the Roman Empire dwindled, there didn't cease to still be a place called "Rome."

Over in the Ivalice games, that name goes from belonging to a region encompassing several countries to a single kingdom to a single town.

It's just a thing that happens.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Just f.y.i., there have been real cities in history that have been regional powers before declining, sometimes quite rapidly, to become small local centres, not much more than villages. The one I can think of off the top of my head is Amalfi. This relatively unimportant little tourist town has got a HUGE cathedral that dwarves the entire place, built back in the day when Amalfi ruled the Neopolitan coast. It built its fortune on trade and was brought low by a combination of the Norman dukes of Sicily and its trade rivals Pisa.

Or, who knows, Junon was the name for the whole republic, and when it collapses this little no-name fishing village decided to adopt the name for itself.

Maybe it was The People's Republic of Junon....

@ Tres: Rome was my first thought, but Rome continued to be a power of the first rank all through the Middle Ages. It wasn't reduced to the status of a one-horse town. Sparta, on the other hand, very rapidly became a shadow of its former self after winning the Pelopponesian War. Pella, the capital of Macedonia, was briefly the centre of the Greek world, but after Alexander died it went back to being a Nibelheim-ish kind of backwater, the kind of place where, if you came from there, you got laughed at by proper Greeks.

 

[waw]

After the Roman Empire dwindled, there didn't cease to still be a place called "Rome."

Over in the Ivalice games, that name goes from belonging to a region encompassing several countries to a single kingdom to a single town.

It's just a thing that happens.

Possibly, but a capital being reduced to a tiny fishing village? That's not at all what happened to Rome in any sense after the fall of the Roman Empire. It was never really reduced to a nothing-town, and there's no evidence of old, remaining structures that were abandoned.

OG FF7 (from my memory here) made it sound like Shirna built Junon during the Wutai War, and it was a cleaner, more precise build than the rushed job of Midgar.

I realy hope they just give us a little more.