Square Enix trademarks Ever Crisis, The First Soldier, and Shinra logo in Japan

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Like, they could legit make a knock-off Genesis to continue him on but... Why?

The whole novelty and identity of his character is his resemblance to Gackt. He's already essentially a knock-off prototype Sephiroth.

... So do we really want a knock-off of a knock-off that's stripped of his main novelty identity????

That's some straight knock-off inception and unlike the movie, that's garbage. :monster:
 
AKA
Mr. Ite
Like, they could legit make a knock-off Genesis to continue him on but... Why?

The whole novelty and identity of his character is his resemblance to Gackt. He's already essentially a knock-off prototype Sephiroth.

... So do we really want a knock-off of a knock-off that's stripped of his main novelty identity????

That's some straight knock-off inception and unlike the movie, that's garbage. :monster:
I dunno, sounds like they’re already making a compilation for the remake for the compilation, so... :monster:
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
Even if the Avengers game resembles the movies visually, I don’t see the point in getting the MCU actors for a game that does not actually take place in the MCU like some of the old movie tie-in games...these characters have existed long before they were ever associated with any actors and have been portrayed by numerous VAs before, unlike Genesis who I think was made specifically for Gackt?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Then they shouldn't have made the Avengers game inspired by the movies in every way except the faces of the characters lol. It's a textbook case of "identity crisis." They could have styled it any other way but Square clearly tried to lean into the Marvel cinematic universe hype by announcing it around that time and using it's iconography. Then they shy away from it all the way upon full reveal. It's contradictory and almost like a bait-and-switch.

They got mocked for it, and the game subsequently bombed. I mean, there was clearly a "point" because it hurt the brand of the game and looked ridiculous.

I dunno, sounds like they’re already making a compilation for the remake for the compilation, so... :monster:
But that doesn't mean repeating things that obviously wouldn't work or be relevant from over 10 years ago. It literally makes no sense. Gackt was big in the early 2000s. Why would Square not tie into someone that's actually a big deal now? It'd be like trying to make a tie in with Yoko Takahashi when it's 2021 and Korean Pop is the big deal now. Square would want to get their money's worth not date themselves, lol
 
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Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
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Tets
This also was an issue with the Silent Hill 2 HD Remaster too, because Konami tried to reuse the original voices for the PS3 port but James' VA and others balked and demanded residuals because the characters used their motion captures and voice talent and they demanded residuals. Making a full on port for a higher definition console usually entitles voice talent to some compensation. And rather than deal with that legal grey area, Konami made a new cast.
Residuals are not a thing in voice acting, that's been a huge point of contention and part of why VAs striked some time back. That's also why they recorded new voices because Cihi raised a stink over something he wasn't entitled to and Konami was being petty, I think :monster:
The original dub was implemented in SH2 HD after all though so idk, the whole thing was weird
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
They did get it back for SH2? I thought they only got it for SH3.

Anyways, I think the case for voice actors however is different when it's actual talent in the sense of performers, stars, and the like. They certainly can raise a stink about it, I know specifically Yami Yugi's voice actor raised hell because he was not okay with Konami reusing his lines in numerous other media and video games, and until they negotiated a contract for it, he wasn't budging and they wanted him to come back for the YGO movie. So vocal talent can demand and cause those types of incidents to happen, if they're big enough.
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
They could have styled it any other way but Square clearly tried to lean into the Marvel cinematic universe hype by announcing it around that time and using it's iconography.
I mean they were going for “Marvel Comics but in real life”, it’s inevitable that it’ll have similarities to the movies. Unless they make it in a cartoon style, there’s only so much that can be done to avoid those comparisons. It was never meant to be an MCU game much like many other Marvel games before it so it was pretty ridiculous for some to want them to look like the actors. It’d be almost as silly as wanting Peter and MJ to look like Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst in the Insomniac Spider-Man game.
 

JBedford

Pro Adventurer
AKA
JBed
Genesis is Gackt, but Genesis is also an important character in the world of FFVII, being CC's villain and being set up in DC to do something.

I don't know about his western popularity, but he is the most popular Compilation-introduced character in Japan (though I'm basing that on a vote so he could be equally controversial).
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
That's misleading. Genesis coming in 100th place when compared to the relative popularity of the actual main characters the Compilation of FFVII follows, definitely does not make him the most popular Compilation character. Lile... If him as an original Compilation character being 100th place means something, it means very little. Of course he'd be the highest since he gets the most screen time and has a rock star's face.

And Genesis doesn't really set up much aside from the fact he and Weiss are alive. However they wish to use that fact is up to them but it's clearly not that important, given their priorities and what they're doing now. Hell, the creators certainly don't really think so, given they just say the scene sets up the fact that Genesis isn't malevolent anymore and he regained his honor, which sorta juxtaposes the first interpretation of the secret ending with the actual resolution in CC. They never said it set up some super secret thing in the future. It's been over 10 years, that pretty much explains everything.
 

looneymoon

hedgehog pandacat
AKA
Rishi
I think all Mako is trying to say is that Gackt is in the Aldous Snow phase of his career, and the character Genesis isn't exactly something that would incite a young and impassioned Jonah Hill to get him to the Greek theater.

Genesis is Square Enix's African Child.

...That reference is as dated as Gackt's relevance to pop culture.
 
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Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
Honestly, I have zero interest in this Gackt person. I didn't even know Genesis was based on someone until years after I played CC. I can easily see them just changing his face if it's a problem.

Whether we like it or not, Crisis Core established Genesis as a significant figure in the VII world. Apparently Dirge even ends by showing him emerging from something into the world, as if setting something up? So either there was something planned and it was cancelled, or Nojima and co still have something in mind for him. Now that we have something coming up that might actually be related to Crisis Core, who knows? But the following is established:

- Genesis has a significant connection to both Sephiroth and Zack.
- Zack might be back in the remake.
- Kunsel, a much less important figure from Crisis Core, was specifically mentioned in the remake.
- Nothing shall forestall his return.
 

Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
He pushed Sephiroth into discovering the truth about himself in CC, he was one of his closest companions (along with Angeal), and he also has a connection to Zack due to the way his fight with him changed his moral perspective. Basically, he's significant in relation to character material due to the background of his relationship dynamics with those two. In terms of the plot, I have no idea, but there is also that bizarre ending to Dirge...
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Sephiroth is not alive or connected to Genesis now. All of that's in the past and for the Remake. Nothing renders Genesis an important character now in narrative and outside the narrative. His significance is in Crisis Core which is resolved. The secret ending of Dirge of Cerberus was essentially a teaser for Crisis Core, which they then made a wraparound to Crisis Core's ending. They never promised anything else with it.
 

abigail

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Abbie
if Remake Sephiroth has anything to do with ACC Sephiroth. my read of lifestream Black is that the impact Genesis had on Sephiroth is moot now.

lets say Genesis does come back and goes to face off ???Roth. Sephrioth has a very strong likihood of being: "Who are you? no it doesnt matter. where is cloud?"
 

Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
Oh, the remake is what I was talking about! As for the end of Dirge, it's set after CC, I thought? If so, it seems to leave Genesis's aims and actions hanging for a potential continuation, but eh, I dunno. If time travel is indeed involved in the remake, though, then (as someone said on the server) I wouldn't be surprised to see Genesis pop up.
 
AKA
The Engineer
Maybe not in the games... but the CC Scenario Q and A definetly makes it sound like the devs had something planned for Genesis after DoC at the time CC was made. And surprise, surprise... Nomura says after Remake comes out that the idea of what would become the Remake was come up with while he was working on CC.
From DC’s hidden movie you can interpret that Genesis has been laid to rest in the cave under Midgar up until he awakens, but…?

To someone who has only played DC, when they watch the secret movie in that game they will take it as “an ominous being sealed in a water-filled chamber has been release onto the world”, but if you watch the movie again after having completed CC then one could go 180 degrees and interpret it in a completely different way.
The Remake itself does an aweful job at making a bunch of things connected to Crisis Core not seem... at the very least like they're there... if not might be important for later. Loveless is still a thing (as is it having a new ending no one has seen before). Banora is a thing. G-Type SOLDIERs are a thing... there's more in the Material Ultimania and tucked away in parts of Remake that indicate the stuff from Crisis Core is around and might still be relevant.

Then there's the entire problem of getting Sephrioth to be an issue after ACC so he (and maybe Aerith?) can be sent back in time. And we have some kind of new Compilaiton entry coming. Given that Sephiroth is nowhere to be found in DoC... it's highly likely whatever led to him being sent back happens after DoC. Which... just so happens to line up to when Genesis wakes up. There's worse ways to kill two birds with one stone.

Personally, I don't think it would be the worst idea to explore however Sephrioth became what he is in Remake in a game that isn't part of the "Remake" series, as that would let the Remake plot breath some and not have to answer as many questions. And if they settle the quesiton of "what Genesis did after DoC?" at the same time... well... at least we'll know if he has the potential to be used in later Remake games or not instead of being in this werid "will they/won't they?" situation we're currently in.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
"Had" being the keyword.

That's been over a decade ago. 14 years since Crisis Core, and 16 since Dirge of Cerberus. That statement in the Scenario Q&A about the secret ending clearly summates what the secret movie was. It's a movie that juxtaposes the initial impressions of Genesis from that secret ending introduction of the character for Crisis Core, with his actual resolution in Crisis Core's final chapter. No big hint, or tell about anything else past that. There's literally nothing there and hasn't been for approaching 20 years. They specifically avoid promising anything else with his character there.

And we don't know if that Sephiroth is even connected to ACC, let alone if it's time travel in the direct sense or indirect sense. And nothing is really implying Aerith is a time traveler. That's a huge assumption right there that doesn't even require Genesis whatsoever. In the end, there's nothing weird about Genesis resolution; he's been resolved and left alone for a decade. Just because his choice of actions post-awakening are ambiguous doesn't mean it has to be answered, his arc within Zack's story is what mattered and it's done. Anything else is like actually waiting for FF Haeresis to be a thing at this point.


Genesis Sephiroth.png

People on this forum actually wanting this shit to happen and I just am like lol really???

Really?!?!?

THIS!?
 
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AKA
The Engineer
I mean... it wouldn't be the first time SE has hauled old ideas out of the FFVII vault to use them later. Reeve's Inspire is hated by a lot of people because it has no "precedence" in the OG and yet it's right there in the Early Material Files. Cloud and Tifa's parents use their old names that they only have in the Early Material Files. Lots of idea from the Early Material Files are getting tweaked to work with the OG ideas...

A character that is 10 years older than the Early Material files and from an actual game that had... a lot of narrative work put into it to make them into a contrast with Sephroth... no way they're not going to be used somewhere. And they're for sure confirmed alive to boot.

There just seems to be a lot of bias towards "I think this character/plot was stupid and so therefore the devs think it's stupid" going around. The devs are making decisions a lot of people don't like left and right in Remake. That you guys don't like Genesis... doesn't mean a whole lot from where I'm sitting for the Compilation.

Goodness knows these devs know how not to to talk about stuff they don't feel like sharing until they want to. Them not talking about a topic doesn't mean anything in the long run. For all we know, they're laughing behind their hands at how everyone hates Genesis as they put him in where they want him. I wouldn't put it past them given how much the devs look like they like trolling/shocking their audience from where I'm sitting.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
There's using old ideas and then there's shoehorning a dated unnecessary publicity stunt that only fit the contemporary decade into something that not only doesn't need it, but would actually be nothing but noise to the story and a distraction from what people legit want.

It's a 17 years old abortion. Everything relevant to the Compilation has had some hint thrown to it, that's kept it relevant in various media. Things that have been forgotten and never touched have been given lip service to some degree, to Before Crisis and it maybe one day being revisited with a remake, to the actual Remake of FFVII itself.

Hell, Mobius Final Fantasy's Eclipse Contact and Fatal Crossing events were love songs to the Compilation done by Kitase and Nojima themselves and you know who they didn't have meet up with Sephiroth?

His shittier one-winged prototype. :awesome:

Like, Genesis is the least likely to make a return. Is the likelihood zero? No. Is it the closest to zero? Given the circumstances, yes. Its not a null value but if we've been waiting close to 20 years for something and it's never manifested while pop culture has moved on from him, what's the cut off? They don't troll. They may get creative and obviously withold spoilers... But that's not trollin'.
 
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