Square Enix trademarks Ever Crisis, The First Soldier, and Shinra logo in Japan
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KindOfBlue
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Now, now...we can bring Zack back to life, we can have Aerith not die, hell, we can even kill Tifa instead, but diminishing any of Genesis’ twattery would be blasphemousDid it also make him less of a twat?
Makoeyes987
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Genesis is for all intents and purposes dead. There's literally zero real world reason for Square-Enix to reach out to a washed out scandal-ridden sundown'ing rockstar, to promote a video game series that's now arguably more popular and culturally relevant than he is. It's the epitome reaching down.
If Square wanted a musician tie-in they'd go to Korea and make a new group of SOLDIERs modeled after BTS. I cannot overstate how there are dozens of bigger music stars even in Japan that would be a bigger draw than Gackt in 2021. Fixating on Genesis is like trying to make Birth By Sleep 2 for the PSP Go a thing. He may get a reference. He may get a shadowed cameo but he is not the center or "draw" anymore. That ship sailed over a decade ago.
If Square wanted a musician tie-in they'd go to Korea and make a new group of SOLDIERs modeled after BTS. I cannot overstate how there are dozens of bigger music stars even in Japan that would be a bigger draw than Gackt in 2021. Fixating on Genesis is like trying to make Birth By Sleep 2 for the PSP Go a thing. He may get a reference. He may get a shadowed cameo but he is not the center or "draw" anymore. That ship sailed over a decade ago.
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
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Also he's a daft cunt 
Only using awesome Mon because I can't remember how to Count Von Count.
Only using awesome Mon because I can't remember how to Count Von Count.
KindOfBlue
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My original point anyways was that the only CC character I want to see in the future of the remake is Cissnei, Genesis aside, the other characters who are dead could be brought back through flashbacks or time shenanigans and not that I think they will do that, but I’d much prefer they don’t
KindOfBlue
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Okay I’ll be fine with an appearance from Kunsel if and only if it involves him being thirsty over Zack
LicoriceAllsorts
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They could just give him a new face like they did with Rude, Reno, Tseng and Rufus. It might still look a little bit like Gackt, but it would mostly not look like him.
KindOfBlue
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Come to think of it, even the main characters have different faces albeit only slightly different...Tifa’s face in particular threw me off a bit when I rewatched AC after playing the remake, I definitely like the remake faces more
cold_spirit
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- Alex T
I've always found it a groundless theory that Genesis's resemblance to Gackt prevents SE from using the character. Since Crisis Core, Genesis has appeared in Pictlogica Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade, and Final Fantasy Record Keeper. His CGI render is used in the Final Fantasy Trading Card Game. Like, a bunch of other characters appear less often than Genesis (Angeal for example), so I find it odd why he's perceived as a footnote in history.
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Makoeyes987
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It's not a theory. Those aren't new depictions of Genesis. Square can use Genesis in sprite form and recycle his voice and visual assets already recorded and utilized for Crisis Core. That's not the same thing at all.
If Square tried to use Gackt's face for actual new material in another video game, then they would run afoul of Gackt's copyright given how it works in Japan. This is literally what happened with Shunsuke Kazama and Konami when they couldn't use Yami Yugi's actual voice for YGO's duel terminal and new video games for several years because they couldn't negotiate or use his voice work anywhere else because it wasn't contracted. He wanted more money.
If Square wants to use his likeness for new material. They have to pay him. They can recycle assets, artworks, renders and already created work from the past but they cannot recycle his face for new IP work and then not pay him for using it. This happens all the time in Japan which is why either companies contract the use long term, or you never see it again.
This also was an issue with the Silent Hill 2 HD Remaster too, because Konami tried to reuse the original voices for the PS3 port but James' VA and others balked and demanded residuals because the characters used their motion captures and voice talent and they demanded residuals. Making a full on port for a higher definition console usually entitles voice talent to some compensation. And rather than deal with that legal grey area, Konami made a new cast.
This has happened several times in video games and companies simply opt to either throw out the voices or avoid it all together. You can't just take someone's face, likeness and mo-cap unless specifically contracted. And Gackt, a musical talent who's stage presence and professional work relies on his face, wouldn't give that for free. Square can't take his face and reuse it for an HD Remaster or new story without paying him and Square isn't going to just do that again for no profit.
If Square tried to use Gackt's face for actual new material in another video game, then they would run afoul of Gackt's copyright given how it works in Japan. This is literally what happened with Shunsuke Kazama and Konami when they couldn't use Yami Yugi's actual voice for YGO's duel terminal and new video games for several years because they couldn't negotiate or use his voice work anywhere else because it wasn't contracted. He wanted more money.
If Square wants to use his likeness for new material. They have to pay him. They can recycle assets, artworks, renders and already created work from the past but they cannot recycle his face for new IP work and then not pay him for using it. This happens all the time in Japan which is why either companies contract the use long term, or you never see it again.
This also was an issue with the Silent Hill 2 HD Remaster too, because Konami tried to reuse the original voices for the PS3 port but James' VA and others balked and demanded residuals because the characters used their motion captures and voice talent and they demanded residuals. Making a full on port for a higher definition console usually entitles voice talent to some compensation. And rather than deal with that legal grey area, Konami made a new cast.
This has happened several times in video games and companies simply opt to either throw out the voices or avoid it all together. You can't just take someone's face, likeness and mo-cap unless specifically contracted. And Gackt, a musical talent who's stage presence and professional work relies on his face, wouldn't give that for free. Square can't take his face and reuse it for an HD Remaster or new story without paying him and Square isn't going to just do that again for no profit.
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cold_spirit
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I'm really gonna need to see the Japanese law that states "sprite/chibi forms are ok" to take you seriously haha.
KindOfBlue
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I assume changing his face would be the way to get around this issue, I say make him look like Keanu Reeves and call it a day
Makoeyes987
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It's common sense. Does a sprite actually look like Gackt or a real life person? That's not the same thing as reusing someone's real life likeness. A sprite isn't motion cap work, either. It's a 16 bit sprite that moves.... Like a sprite.
Voice actors lend not just their voice but usually their motion capture work and if you actually research the subject, you'd know this. This has happened numerous times in the industry and if companies hesitate to reuse work from just vocal talent, they would definitely hesitate reusing it from a million dollar/yen musician who uses their likeness and is known to be litigious. Gackt lended his talents and likeness for the character for Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus. Square doesn't have a blank check for his face and likeness forever. That's not how it works, because then you'd never pay anyone ever again.
Voice actors lend not just their voice but usually their motion capture work and if you actually research the subject, you'd know this. This has happened numerous times in the industry and if companies hesitate to reuse work from just vocal talent, they would definitely hesitate reusing it from a million dollar/yen musician who uses their likeness and is known to be litigious. Gackt lended his talents and likeness for the character for Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus. Square doesn't have a blank check for his face and likeness forever. That's not how it works, because then you'd never pay anyone ever again.
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looneymoon
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Just wanted to drop this in here for a laugh.
Makoeyes987
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OMFG. LMAO YES.
And that's a perfect contemporary example right there from Square. There you can plainly see Square Enix's budget and dedication to reusing vocal and face talent from celebrities for continuity. They did not want to even attempt to negotiate the use of the voice and faces of the actual Marvel Avengers actors, so they made Great Value (tm) Avengers instead.
That was for a group of main characters central to an entire game. They're not going to do that for a character unrelated to the Remake. However, if they were? That's how they would do it. Genesis would have a random ass face and voice and it would look stupid.
And that's a perfect contemporary example right there from Square. There you can plainly see Square Enix's budget and dedication to reusing vocal and face talent from celebrities for continuity. They did not want to even attempt to negotiate the use of the voice and faces of the actual Marvel Avengers actors, so they made Great Value (tm) Avengers instead.
That was for a group of main characters central to an entire game. They're not going to do that for a character unrelated to the Remake. However, if they were? That's how they would do it.
Genesis would have a random ass face and voice and it would look stupid.
eleamaya
Pro Adventurer
So, are you saying that Square don't wanna put Genesis into the story anymore because of bad character popularity that doesn't cover the money they would pay for Gackt? What I know is Gackt just being happy if they called him for collab again in next FF7 project.
cold_spirit
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A million dollar/yen musician would also argue a sprite made in their appearance is benefitting from their likeness. Yet SE is happy to risk that.
Neither you or I have any clue of the details in the partnership between Gackt and SE. Not in 2007 or in 2021. We don't know the terms of agreement. What we do know is that SE hasn't had the opportunity to feature Genesis in a big way since CC, the same goes for many others characters.
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eleamaya
Pro Adventurer
Idk who spreads the rumor that Gackt don't wanna collab again because he does. He said it on his Livestream last year.
If Genesis doesn't make an appearance outside CC and DC, it has nothing to do with Gackt, but the story itself.
Makoeyes987
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A sprite isn't a visual that utilizes real life motion capture, dude. What are you talking about? That's nothing akin to a real life person. That's the creative equivalent of changing a face.
If Square wanted to make a game that's only sprites and uses no voice talent from Gackt at all, that's fine. That would be allowed because it sidesteps the issue. It would not use his visuals and voice. How do you not see the difference?
It's simply common sense and you literally have an example from S-E with the Avengers game from last year. Visual and vocal talent requires compensation. If you can't extrapolate and understand how the copyright works that's your choice. It's not ambiguous. Gackt isn't free and Square would have to pay him to use it for new material.
It's not about them thinking he's bad per se it just requires paying Gackt a lot of money again for his talent and that's simply a cost. Why would they want to pay it again especially when he's not the draw he was over a decade ago? Why is he necessary? FFVII doesn't need it and they can make more money not doing it.
JBedford
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I don't think the Marvel Avengers game is really comparable. It's its own universe so getting the MCU cast involved would be a waste. Although I guess they still wanted to bank on their familiarity.
I reckon if they really wanted Genesis in something they'd just try to get Gackt unless there's some other reasons we don't know about. But unless they have a specific role in mind for Genesis they're probably going to avoid the issue and just not have him appear.
I reckon if they really wanted Genesis in something they'd just try to get Gackt unless there's some other reasons we don't know about. But unless they have a specific role in mind for Genesis they're probably going to avoid the issue and just not have him appear.
Makoeyes987
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I think it's wholly comparable because the most recent and well known Avengers depiction right now is from Disney Marvel movies which this game clearly is inspired from in terms of visual style. Look at their costumes, and the marketing.
Square however, created this strange schism in depiction by going photo realistic while giving them random faces. The Avengers appearances in recent comics (which are separate from the movies) are even based on their movie design. So the reason why they don't have the same appearance and voices in a photo realistic video game is obvious.
Square didn't want to pay for it.
Keveh Kins
Pun Enthusiast
^Reminds me of those knock-off wrestling action figures you'd find in supermarkets back in the day.
"Bulk Brogan", "The Penultimate Warrior", "Ice Cold Steve Astin"
Square could bootleg Genesis with a less Gackty appearance and call him "Commencement"
"Bulk Brogan", "The Penultimate Warrior", "Ice Cold Steve Astin"
Square could bootleg Genesis with a less Gackty appearance and call him "Commencement"
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Maybge Nomura just doesn't have a pash on Gackt any more.