Suicide Squad (film)

Channy

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
This kinda sucks because Harley's standalone movie probably won't get the greenlight now. :sadpanda:
 
C

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Huh. I am honestly surprised this is getting such a bad reception, it didn't exactly break the mould, but there wasn't anything massively wrong. I mean, while I thought BVS was okay, I understood that it had flaws.

Responses:

Katana is there as backup for Flag in the event of sudden but inevitable betrayal. Someone with the mantra "Criminals deserve no mercy" is useful to have around. He needs another way to keep them in check apart from the explosives, because that's an all or nothing solution.

Why WAS this the mission that they decided to use the Suicide Squad? Their "throw them under the bus" niche doesn't really make sense here, and as an idea for a debut for the no-accountability team of government non-involvement, a Metahuman (building a gigantic 3D CGI Fractal... machine to destroy humanity for reasons utterly obscure?) dealing catestrophic damage to a major city seems like very much the kind of thing NOT within their skillset (especially since most of their team seems to just have the ability to fire a gun semi-decently). In fact, that incident just mysteriously clearing itself up is even MORE problematic.
Click to expand...

The mission was to pull out Woller, not to take on Enchantress, the final bossfight just happened. She has to use her own black team because if anyone else finds out how badly she fucked up, the US military and quite a few other people will want her head on a spike. The plan to deal with Enchantress was probably just to carpet bomb the city after the team was gone, which probably would have actually worked, considering how her brother went down.

Not keen or indifferent to most of the suggestions in your link, by the way. Strongly disagree on more Batman/Joker.

Now, my own response to the movie:

Originally, this movie was never meant to be the flagship of the DCU, it was meant as the 'fun little brother'. After the backlash to BvS, I think some of the rougher edges were sanded off for broader appeal. Which had an effect, but didn't kill the film for me.

This is Joker we've never seen before on the big screen. He doesn't have a grand plan, he's just ruling his empire and moping in a ball of knives. It doesn't quite work, but it has potential for expansion. But we do get a sense of how implacable he can be in getting what he wants, his unpredictability and danger. Joker had to be in a Harley Quinn movie, because everyone would just be wondering where he was otherwise, but this wasn't a Joker movie, nor should it have been. He was worked into the plot well and did what was needed.

The characters and personality bounced off each other well early on, even in their very lack of interaction. These people are not friends.

Pacifist gang member was an interesting take, Croc made the most of what he was given, not everyone was in the spotlight but nobody on the team had major missteps. Katana, Boomerang et al did what was expected of them. Amanda Woller was as ruthless as you expect.

The bad:

Some of the girls' costumes.
6000 year old sorceress god enchantress suddenly acquiring an English accent in the final confrontation.

The bar scene doesn't work. Their motivations need to be a little more villainous, or even be explained less. Harley would be equally plausible with 'Fuck it, why not?" or suicidal revenge, most of the rest could be pulled along out of 'I live in the world, it would inconvenience me if it was destroyed.' The bond at the end was overplayed, although it was in character for pacifist self hating guy to be the sacrifice. Final bossfight conventional but not massively flawed.
 
X-SOLDIER

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Clement Rage said:
Why WAS this the mission that they decided to use the Suicide Squad? Their "throw them under the bus" niche doesn't really make sense here, and as an idea for a debut for the no-accountability team of government non-involvement, a Metahuman (building a gigantic 3D CGI Fractal... machine to destroy humanity for reasons utterly obscure?) dealing catestrophic damage to a major city seems like very much the kind of thing NOT within their skillset (especially since most of their team seems to just have the ability to fire a gun semi-decently). In fact, that incident just mysteriously clearing itself up is even MORE problematic.
Click to expand...

The mission was to pull out Woller, not to take on Enchantress, the final bossfight just happened. She has to use her own black team because if anyone else finds out how badly she fucked up, the US military and quite a few other people will want her head on a spike. The plan to deal with Enchantress was probably just to carpet bomb the city after the team was gone, which probably would have actually worked, considering how her brother went down.
Click to expand...

I meant more of, "Why use that as a mission in the film instead of something that better paints the picture of what the Suicide Squad was meant to be?" There're plenty of better potential plots that they could've used to give it the feel of the covert expendable unit of utterly terrible individuals with zero accountability.




X :neo:
 
C

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Hmm. What kind of mission would you prefer, then? (Not snarky or a trick question, genuinely interested because I don't know the comics) Hard to strike that balance of being threatening but still weak enough to be defeated with someone like Deadshot on the team.
 
X-SOLDIER

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Make a situation with some utterly despicable entity, but give a reason that the military CAN'T take them out, like a diplomatic immunity or something that makes it clear that this is something that tanks and helicopters can't do because they're not allowed to, not because they're incapable. That's why you have a squad like this that's completely expendable from a political/military standpoint with no ties back to who sent them. (The first thing Enchantress does in the film is about the only thing that meets that qualification really, REALLY well).

You can have your key villain as someone who's a figurehead with a big taskforce protecting them like Lex Luthor or Ra's Al Ghul who the government can't directly attack over issues of diplomatic immunity or public international relations, who's still going to need crazy force to take down, and still get the "use bad to defeat evil" angle. While the Suicide Squad are a team of very powerful freaks and metahumans – they're not there to do a job because they're a superior force to using the military, because they're not supposed to be that whatsoever. They're there to kill someone as ordered by the government/military, but in a way that's completely off the books.


tl;dr — The film's villain needed to be someone far too dangerous for the government/military to leave alive, but simultaneously someone they had ZERO ways of dealing with eliminating them legally. They're there to use them like Navy SEALS that, if the mission goes tits up, you can just say, "Welp, looks like all these terrible people just went at each other over a bad deal." — which is also the same thing you say if the mission goes as planned. They never get to be heroes.

The situation in the film is DEFINITELY not that.




X :neo:
 
The Twilight Mexican

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Right on the money there, X. That's always been the purpose of the squad in the comics. Sometimes the matter was something any schmoe with a gun could have solved, but it had to be off the books, so the squad (or individual members of it) got to play the Boss's role in "Snake Eater."
 
X-SOLDIER

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Here's to hoping some of the negatives of Joker & Harley's relationship shows up in it.




X :neo:
 
lithiumkatana17

lithiumkatana17

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lith
Still haven't seen the movie yet, but I think I may wait for the extended cut now. It seems like that was the one of the main complaints of the film, that it felt choppy and rushed, with a lot of footage from the trailers noticeably absent.

That, and Harley and Joker's relationship was warped into a twisted little love story. I wasn't too happy about that.
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Interesting to see if the EE does this well. I'm a bit doubtful that more Joker will be a good thing. But BVS really came together for me on a rewatch.

One thing they really needed in the movie, don't know if I've said this before:
If Amanda Woller dies, the bombs go off. That one detail would solve so many problems and make so much of the plot so much more credible.
 
C

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Rewatch. And it's... not bad? Not ever going to be a favourite, but it held together surprisingly well this time.

Still don't like this Joker, he seems like he's trying to be scary, where some of Mr. J's best moments come from outwardly being polite and friendly because his rep precedes him. But he did what was necessary here, and I'm glad they didn't try to make him the end boss, that would be silly.

Stressing 'we're the bad guys' too much and the tight bond between the crew still pushed things a bit, but if there was one thing I wish they changed, it would be to scale things down. There's the bones of a good story here, just have it happen in a town of thousands instead of a city of millions. Instead of fifty SEAL escorts, have five.
 
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