Teams

[Max Payne]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=194.msg4794#msg4794 date=1230680924]
Even considering that (and I'm still with Mako on this one), why bother having something that's insular, not constructive for the site and community, and ultimately pointless?
[/quote]

That's sort of an odd point to make considering this entire board is all pretty pointless.

The teams could be a source of entertainment as everything else is, such as setting up competitions in different fields, or setting games between teams, or just to accomplish certain goals we could set.

It's all for entertainment in the end.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

But why? Yeah, it's all LOL POINTLESS ENTERTAINMENT in the end but that's not really an argument. What purpose do the teams have towards the betterment of the established community, generating overall forum activity, and promoting overall fellowship without being divided, especially considering their track record (cons outweigh the pros)

Do you really think that all of the drama that occurred with the teams before was really a unique, freak accident? It's going to happen again, and it would happen repeatedly, anywhere simply because of the nature of the idea. Also, Mako has excellent points which nobody really has tried to refute so far. The whole thing to me just seems a dumb and pointless idea. What benefit would it have besides for being a stupid insular circle jerk?

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=194.msg4798#msg4798 date=1230681795]
But why? Yeah, it's all LOL POINTLESS ENTERTAINMENT in the end but that's not really an argument. [/quote]

Neither is IT'S ULTIMATELY POINTLESS.

What purpose do the teams have towards the betterment of the established community, generating overall forum activity, and promoting overall fellowship without being divided, especially considering their track record (cons outweigh the pros)

They encourage activity and overall fellowship through competition, and working together, just like real life. Yes, their track record on acf, where the most active leaders of the team had bad blood between each other, and some who got their kicks simply from trolling people.

Do you really think that all of the drama that occurred with the teams before was really a unique, freak accident?

No one said anything of the sort.

It's going to happen again, and it would happen repeatedly, anywhere simply because of the nature of the idea.

No, it wouldn't happen again if properly handled. Nature of the idea? That's absurd. Do people on teams in real life form hate and such for each other through competition universally?

Also, Mako has excellent points which nobody really has tried to refute so far. The whole thing to me just seems a dumb and pointless idea. What benefit would it have besides for being a stupid insular circle jerk?

I already addressed Mako's points by the fact that this simply would not be the same, not the same people, not the same staff, and not the same structure.

It does not have to be the same clusterfuck, and that's what you guys seem to not realise.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah but competition doing what? What would be different about the teams that would actually make them worth having? Like I said, I wouldn't mind if there were teams around actually doing constructive things, like creating things, translating material, making games, or some other big project. The 'teams' I remember ACF having were just stupid special forums with names and nobody really did anything.

 

[Ⓐaron]

There really wasn't any drama related to teams for the last three months or so that ACF was open - pretty much after Ghost X was instated as teams moderator. As far as I remember, the only drama at all relating to teams came from people who were habitual drama whores - e.g., Biff McNasty and Ice Prince.

Making them private is a shitty idea, but apart from that I think the concept is rather harmless, as long as you don't allow dramafags like Darkbeat and Felix Xelon to control them.

 

[Max Payne]

Art competitions, writing, site development, hell even coming up with games that could be hosted on the site for entertainment.

It's all up to what you can think of that would make it worth having.

ACF's teams were just little secret hideouts for people to feel good about each other and talk shit.

The people here are not like the ones that populated those teams, and they never will be as long as certain things are enforced.

1. No spam section
2. All rules are enforced with no favoritism.

Most of the people here are the ones who were always interested in FF, and are generally nice people.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Art competitions, writing, site development, hell even coming up with games that could be hosted on the site for entertainment.

It's all up to what you can think of that would make it worth having.

ACF's teams were just little secret hideouts for people to feel good about each other and talk shit.

The people here are not like the ones that populated those teams, and they never will be as long as certain things are enforced.

1. No spam section
2. All rules are enforced with no favoritism.

Most of the people here are the ones who were always interested in FF, and are generally nice people.

That's fine! But that would have to be only after something like that has undergone serious consideration and development, I am against making teams just to fill a niche. If a group of people come to us interested in say, retransmitting Final Fantasy 7's game file, or say, scanning a translated version of the Ultimania, fine, but I'm against just making teams waiting for slots to fill up.

On that note, the Chrono series fanbase is so far ahead of us it isn't even funny.

There really wasn't any drama related to teams for the last three months or so that ACF was open - pretty much after Ghost X was instated as teams moderator. As far as I remember, the only drama at all relating to teams came from people who were habitual drama whores - e.g., Biff McNasty and Ice Prince.

Making them private is a shitty idea, but apart from that I think the concept is rather harmless, as long as you don't allow dramafags like Darkbeat and Felix Xelon to control them.

But does it have any benefit? Doing something and adding something to the site just because its harmless isn't a wise policy. I prefer a simple, clean, and necessitated based style of running things, not just adding things because 'hey, it can't hurt!' I mean what's the point of that?

 

[Max Payne]

Well no one wants to do shit just for the hell of it.

Nor do we want to half ass it either.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If something generates activity without providing drama, that's fine.

One thing which I think should be avoided is forcing members to join one team at maximum. Doing so encouraged factionalism and perpetuated an us-against-them mentality on ACF. Honestly, I think that was the single biggest flaw of the way the system was set up.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Let me reiterate; if there would be teams at all, it would be for a specific purpose, for example, to translate something, to make a game or program, to make a cool FF edit, etc. To do some sort of project to benefit the community. That's why we couldn't just CREATE any team until there was actually a call to do so.

 

[Max Payne]

A team doesn't have to serve just one specific purpose because then people wouldn't be compelled to join any if they didn't have that specific talent.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Then what would be the point of having them if they didn't have at least some specialized purpose?

 

[Max Payne]

What's the point of having sections where people discuss things when the discussion serves no real purpose past personal entertainment?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Consistent rule enforcement definitely is necessary, as is a strong set of rules to keep order, respect, and civility.

And yes, drama does start that way. As long as rules are enforced consistently and fairly, the order of things and stuff shouldn't be a problem.

However, I really do think the whole team thing isn't necessary, especially now, when we NEED more activity in the main, public sections accessible to all. It wouldn't contribute anything at all. And if implemented on a later date, I don't see much value being brought here anyways because bad shit will just happen. Even with proper rules, enforcement, and the like, a bad apple IS going to come.

Why even open the door for it? I mean, what is it that is lacking that must be filled with the whole ACF Team concept? I mean, yeah, people want it, but what is it that teams fulfill that couldn't be fulfilled just as adequately or better, by a concept that won't potentially breed such wank?

EDIT: Holy shit a lot of replies were posted since I first posted this

@V
That would be one way of stablizing and making the concept of teams better. I agree.

But I too must ask, what hole does Teams fill that can't be filled by another concept?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

What's the point of having sections where people discuss things when the discussion serves no real purpose past personal entertainment?

Hey, by that logic, while we're at it, why not just add every possible feature and forum under the sun?

Why not a peas and gravy forum? It wouldn't hurt!

Consistent rule enforcement definitely is necessary, as is a strong set of rules to keep order, respect, and civility.

And yes, drama does start that way. As long as rules are enforced consistently and fairly, the order of things and stuff shouldn't be a problem.

However, I really do think the whole team thing isn't necessary, especially now, when we NEED more activity in the main, public sections accessible to all. It wouldn't contribute anything at all. And if implemented on a later date, I don't see much value being brought here anyways because bad shit will just happen. Even with proper rules, enforcement, and the like, a bad apple IS going to come.

Why even open the door for it? I mean, what is it that is lacking that must be filled with the whole ACF Team concept? I mean, yeah, people want it, but what is it that teams fulfill that couldn't be fulfilled just as adequately or better, by a concept that won't potentially breed such wank?

This.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Why even open the door for it? I mean, what is it that is lacking that must be filled with the whole ACF Team concept? I mean, yeah, people want it, but what is it that teams fulfill that couldn't be fulfilled just as adequately or better, by a concept that won't potentially breed such wank?

They enabled people to get to know each other on a more personal level. After a forum gets too large, the discussion becomes more impersonal and people end up not really knowing each other. Creating teams allows for the feeling of a close-knit community while still providing the level of activity of a much larger site.

That said, I'm not sure it'd be strictly necessary to start them up now, but sometime down the road as TLS grows, they won't hurt anything as long as they're implemented well (i.e., not as they were on ACF in the beginning).

 

[Cat Rage Room]

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php

Like I said, the Chrono fanbase is really light years ahead of us, they translate their Ultimanias, artbooks, and interviews, but in addition to that, they have stuff like retranslations of the original Chrono Trigger, making new (and good, as in, professional good), edits and retellings of the Chrono Universe by editing the original CT ROM (and in one case, the Chrono Cross ROM), and even making their own completely original projects.

They enabled people to get to know each other on a more personal level. After a forum gets too large, the discussion becomes more impersonal and people end up not really knowing each other. Creating teams allows for the feeling of a close-knit community while still providing the level of activity of a much larger site.

Not really smart logic considering that forums far, far, far larger than ours and ACF ever was are able to achieve people getting to know each other and personal relationships and such without this team nonsense.

 

[Max Payne]

No one said it was absolutely necessary makofart.

We're also not looking to have a repeat of acf teams either. The whole idea is developing our own form of the concept without the bullshit acf had.

Like I said, the Chrono fanbase is really light years ahead of us, they translate their Ultimanias, artbooks, and interviews, but in addition to that, they have stuff like retranslations of the original Chrono Trigger, making new (and good, as in, professional good), edits and retellings of the Chrono Universe by editing the original CT ROM (and in one case, the Chrono Cross ROM), and even making their own completely original projects.

That's not relevant to this at all. We're not any other site, and we're not trying to be any other site.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Okay, I see what you're saying V, and you're right, right now with our small size, we definitely are pretty close knit as it is

But why do we have to make teams private? If it's about having forum members know each other better and become close-knit, wouldn't shutting them off from the rest of the forum defeat said purpose?

The things I do not like about teams is:

1.) The secrecy
2.) Their removal from the general community of the forum and its focus
3.) The lack of contribution, because posts made there, aren't really being made to the main site. They go to the *team* forum, which is thus removed from the main forum.

It's like creating a satellite forum for the main forum.

How about we make teams more like clubs, or groups instead? Wouldn't that serve the same purpose?

@Bacon

LOL well when I mean "necessary" I mean it as in, people want them to come back, so obviously they want them to for some reason. I'm just trying to figure out.

 

[Max Payne]

I think it's obvious to everyone that hiding them would be a fucking bitch move.

1.) The secrecy
2.) Their removal from the general community of the forum and its focus
3.) The lack of contribution, because posts made there, aren't really being made to the main site. They go to the *team* forum, which is thus removed from the main forum.

All remnants of ACF that we don't need.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So we agree then that teams wouldn't be hidden from the main forum?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

That's not relevant to this at all. We're not any other site, and we're not trying to be any other site.

You missed my point entirely. It's not trying to be like any other site. It's about an idea that works. They have a similar concept that works. I'm not saying we have to do that exactly, but if they're doing a concept that works, and we're doing a concept, that in theory, is pretty pointless, do you see the issue here?

And I am still against teams whether they are private or not as long as they serve no specific purpose.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=194.msg4835#msg4835 date=1230684959]
So we agree then that teams wouldn't be hidden from the main forum?
[/quote]

Yes.

If anything were to be hidden, it would have to be something like a self help section for personal problems people have, but wouldn't want the entirety of the forum to be privy to, but need an outside opinion to help deal with.

You missed my point entirely. It's not trying to be like any other site. It's about an idea that works. They have a similar concept that works. I'm not saying we have to do that exactly, but if they're doing a concept that works, and we're doing a concept, that in theory, is pretty pointless, do you see the issue here?

No, we're not trying to copy what someone else is doing. I don't care what works for them, it's about what works for us.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No, we're not trying to copy what someone else is doing.I don't care what works for them, it's about what works for us.

Wrong, it's not about copying what someone else is doing. It works in general. CT is hardly the first fandom to do this. If I start shitting in the toilet instead of the floor because I heard about it from my friend, it's called doing something that's obviously a good idea, not copying what someone else is doing.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=194.msg4838#msg4838 date=1230685206]

No, we're not trying to copy what someone else is doing.

Wrong, it's not about copying what someone else is doing. If I start shitting in the toilet instead of the floor because I heard about it from my friend, it's called doing something that's obviously a good idea, not copying what someone else is doing.
[/quote]

That is not even comparable. You're comparing a necessary bodily function with a concept that applies to one forum that might not work as well with another.

Theirs is about working on a specific goal from what you're saying, that's not the same as what we're discussing. We're talking about something for the people, not a project.