Teams

[Cat Rage Room]

Whatever, the point is, taking an concept because it's a good idea in general isn't about 'HEY GUYS ITS COPYING', it's about taking something that's generally a good idea and applying it to ourselves. As business management is more my forte, should I bring up something business or advertisement related as a better example?

Theirs is about working on a specific goal from what you're saying, that's not the same as what we're discussing. We're talking about something for the people, not a project.

So basically we're talking about a pointless 'team' thing that contributes nothing to anyone anywhere? Has anyone ever wondered why ACF was more or less the only ones to have that idea? Because it sucked ass.

 

[Cookie Monster]

As long as we have a team moderator, and/or give the Administrators access to all teams, there won't be any drama. When the SW and spam incidents happened on ACF, it seemed most of the staff members joined RoA, and those that hated them joined SO. The drama stemmed from previous incidents involving Staff and regular members. And the drama from those incidents continued until ACF's demise. Poor leadership and piss poor management by the owner is the reason for all the drama that took place on ACF. We have none of that here, and we won't as long as Yop owns the place. Period.

And there is just as much of an opportunity for this "bad apple" to arise with or without teams. That's what staff is for. We deal with it and proceed. Problems are inevitable no matter what we do. What matters is how we deal with said problems, which won't be an issue here. There's no valid reason to refrain from adding something to the forum which will generate interest, friendships, and general entertainment.

Also, there are pros and cons when it comes to secrecy. The pro was that it allowed members to discuss matters they do not wish to share with the rest of the world. Hell, Dacon only posted a pic of himself in SO, iirc. After friendships are developed, people are more willing to express and talk about things they normally wouldn't in a thread on the main board. And allowing members to feel this comfortable keeps them coming back, which is an obvious plus.

The con is basically what occurred on ACF, which was then fixed by simply adding a team moderator before its demise. Problem solved, imho.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=194.msg4840#msg4840 date=1230685368]
Whatever, the point is, taking an concept because it's a good idea in general isn't about 'HEY GUYS ITS COPYING', it's about taking something that's generally a good idea and applying it to ourselves. As business management is more my forte, should I bring up something business or advertisement related as a better example?
[/quote]

I have not seen anything of the such from one site work the same as it has on other sites. Nothing works in general when it comes to a forum because the people vary from one to another.

Just because something works for other people, doesn't mean it'll work for us. What you're talking about is working on a dedicated project with a close nit group of people, and that's not going to work in a relatively lax environment that we have now.

Maybe further down the line, but not right now.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well apparently the point of a team is to foster closer relationships between forum goers. It's a social thing. Right now we don't need cause we're small and close knit as is.

But apparently the function of the "team" concept is socializing. What I'm trying to figure out is how can we make this work without

1.) Having this concept foster and breed bullshit drama.
2.) Having this concept detract from activity on the main part of the forum.
3.) Keep the concept all inclusive so that petty competition, paranoia, hate, and the like don't end up tarnishing it all.

I really think we can have this concept in the form of clubs, group circles and the like and thus we have a middle ground without it being the ACF team concept, but still get the same goals across.

@Road

While the Team Moderator made things better, it hardly fixed everything. By the time Ghost X was appointed the shit was so stank there was nothing that could be done. It all just was fucked by that time.

 

[Max Payne]

Well, it's the idea of teams Mako, not ACF teams.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Just because something works for other people, doesn't mean it'll work for us. What you're talking about is working on a dedicated project with a close nit group of people, and that's not going to work in a relatively lax environment that we have now.

I'm not saying we have to have that, but if we're going to have stupid little teams, it should definitely be for a purpose or something among those lines.

Just because something works for other people, doesn't mean it'll work for us.

No offense, but I disagree. There are such things as universal good and bad ideas.

Also, there are pros and cons when it comes to secrecy. The pro was that it allowed members to discuss matters they do not wish to share with the rest of the world. Hell, Dacon only posted a pic of himself in SO, iirc. After friendships are developed, people are more willing to express and talk about things they normally wouldn't in a thread on the main board. And allowing members to feel this comfortable keeps them coming back, which is an obvious plus.

But that's...dumb. I mean, if people can discuss personal things in huge forums such as SomethingAwful (with hundreds of thousands of users) without a problem, they should here. Don't feel comfortable doing that? Then go through PM or an IRC channel or something. Teams in general is a bad idea, but making them to cater to people's secret personal problems is even worse.

We don't need 'teams' to make close knit community and relationships with people considering that it's always being done without such a feature.

 

[Cookie Monster]

@Mako: Adding a team moderator now at the beginning will prevent teams from degenerating into what teams were on ACF.

 

[Max Payne]

I'm not saying we have to have that, but if we're going to have stupid little teams, it should definitely be for a purpose or something among those lines.

I don't see how you're not saying we have to when you've been arguing in favor of it. Even going so far as to say how far ahead of us other people are. Just because you don't like an idea doesn't make it stupid either.

No offense, but I disagree. There are such things as universal good and bad ideas.

Maybe there is, but that's not one of them.

But that's...dumb. I mean, if people can discuss personal things in huge forums such as SomethingAwful without a problem, they should here.

Maybe because this isn't somethingawful?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I don't see how you're not saying we have to when you've been arguing in favor of it. Even going so far as to say how far ahead of us other people are. Just because you don't like an idea doesn't make it stupid either.

I'm only arguing in favor of it because if we have to have that, that's the only type I'd support. I'm saying they're far ahead of us (well, in terms of the number of what the fans produce, they well, are), because at least their 'teams' actually do things.

And yeah I think the idea is pretty stupid.

Maybe there is, but that's not one of them.

Anything concrete to support your statement?

Maybe because this isn't somethingawful?

What makes this forum sooooooo special and soooooo different from all the other ones that we need something like teams to facilitate closer knit relationships and development with our forum peers?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Who said anything about problems? Private matters aren't necessarily negative. Everyone isn't the same MOG, some are more open than others. Just because another board has a certain amount of activity, doesn't mean its generating the most activity it can possibly receive.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Who said anything about problems? Private matters aren't necessarily negative. Everyone isn't the same MOG, some are more open than others.

Ahh cool by that logic let's just let everyone have their own special little board for their issues because we're all unique little butterflies.

 

[Max Payne]

I'm only arguing in favor of it because if we have to have that, that's the only type I'd support. I'm saying they're far ahead of us (well, in terms of the number of what the fans produce, they well, are), because at least their 'teams' actually do things.

Well, it's not about satisfying one person and their wants, it's about finding something at will work for everyone. Our teams can do things, we just have to decide what, and the teams don't have to be defined by those things.

And yeah I think the idea is pretty stupid.

Good thing person opinions are not facts.

Anything concrete to support your statement?

Are you asking me to prove whether or not one idea is generally applicable to a forum? Because that's an enormous undertaking that would hardly be worth the time.

What makes this forum sooooooo special and soooooo different from all the other ones that we need something like teams to facilitate closer knit relationships and development with our forum peers?

Well, many other forums have teams similar to what we're talking about, so it wouldn't be all the different. The simply fact is we're not all these other forums, and we should try and do something unique for ourselves, rather than be like everyone else.

What makes a place different is the people, and we're different people, the internet is far too full of diversity for everything to be the same everywhere. Unless a board has the same staff and members shit is going to be different from one to another.

That's common sense.

 

[Cookie Monster]

@Mog: Generalizing doesn't help your argument. If we can cater to certain group of people without hurting the rest of the board, it's perfectly valid and a rather smart thing to do.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

If we can cater to certain group of people without hurting the rest of the board, it's perfectly valid and a rather smart thing to do.

Ah cool pointless insular favoritism for no reason.

Well, it's not about satisfying one person and their wants, it's about finding something at will work for everyone. Our teams can do things, we just have to decide what, and the teams don't have to be defined by those things.

If anyone can decide what productive community things the teams can do, then so be it.

Good thing person opinions are not facts.

Good thing this entire topic is about our opinions (and supporting our opinions) on the matter of teams.

Are you asking me to prove whether or not one idea is generally applicable to a forum? Because that's an enormous undertaking that would hardly be worth the time.

No, I'm just asking you to support your argument.

Well, many other forums have teams similar to what we're talking about, so it wouldn't be all the different.

Ah cool name some.

What makes a place different is the people, and we're different people, the internet is far too full of diversity for everything to be the same everywhere. Unless a board has the same staff and members shit is going to be different from one to another.

That's common sense.

No, you didn't answer my question. What makes this forum as a whole so different and unique from other communities that we need this team thing?

 

[Cookie Monster]

As I said, "without hurting the rest of the board." It just provides more options to people. Nobody is preventing the other members from joining a team, and nobody is forcing them to. The idea favors nothing.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

[quote author=Cookie Monster link=topic=194.msg4857#msg4857 date=1230687180]
As I said, "without hurting the rest of the board." It just provides more options to people. Nobody is preventing the other members from joining a team, and nobody is forcing them to. The idea favors nothing.
[/quote]

So how about that peas and gravy forum section?

 

[Max Payne]

Ah cool pointless insular favoritism for no reason.

There's nothing pointless about keeping members satisfied if it's not detrimental to the overall state of the board.

If anyone can decide what productive community things the teams can do, then so be it.

That's up to the people of the board itself.

Good thing this entire topic is about our opinions (and supporting our opinions) on the matter of teams.

Well, duh.

No, I'm just asking you to support your argument.

And that's exactly what you're asking me to do by asking such.

Ah cool name some.

Use google. It's not difficult.

No, you didn't answer my question. What makes this forum as a whole so different and unique from other communities that we need this team thing?

Yes, I did. The member base is what makes it different. That's obvious, and this discussion isn't about necessity.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

There's nothing pointless about keeping members satisfied if it's not detrimental to the overall state of the board.

peas and gravy

And that's exactly what you're asking me to do by asking such.

So basically you're saying you can't/aren't willing to support your argument?

Use google. It's not difficult.

The biggest cop out answer of all time. You're telling me to scour google to search for forums that have a team based system similar to what ACF, because you can't think of one similar forum that had it? Do you think I'm retarded?

Yes, I did. The member base is what makes it different.

How? What's so different about our member base?

 

[Cookie Monster]

MOG, you have nothing to support your argument on that matter either. All you have are your opinions just as Dacon does.

This is going no where. We've clearly expressed our opinions on the matter, and continuing this discussion is pointless. I believe we've provided facts that teams were not the source of drama on ACF, which was the main argument that was proposed against the idea of teams.

I suggest we end this, and allow the rest of the members to offer their opinions on this issue.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

MOG, you have nothing to support your argument on that matter either. All you have are your opinions just as Dacon does.

All of us who are saying something other than AGREE/DISAGREE (An opinion based on something, anything factual) are at least somewhat supporting our arguments. That's not fair to say.

But yeah everyone else share your thoughts.

 

[Max Payne]

peas and gravy

weaksauce

So basically you're saying you can't/aren't willing to support your argument?

No, I'm just not stupid enough to attempt to prove that an idea is generally applicable to every forum on the goddamn internet.

The biggest cop out answer of all time. You're telling me to scour google to search for forums that have a team based system similar to what ACF, because you can't think of one similar forum that had it?

Cop out my ass. All you have to do is type in team and forum in google and you'll get forums with teams. I never said they would be similar to the ones ACF had. My whole argument has been that this shouldn't be similar to acf teams.

Stop talking down as if your opinion is superior in some way, that condescending attitude serves no purpose.

How? What's so different about our member base?

The fact that they're not the same people there.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Cop out my ass. All you have to do is type in team and forum in google and you'll get forums with teams. I never said they would be similar to the one ACF had. Stop talking down as if your opinion is similar in some way, that condescending attitude serves no purpose.

It is a dumb cop out statement. If I told you that 'Yeah there are totally other forums that worship 8 legged purple goats' and you asked "Oh yeah, which ones?" and I said 'LOL just search google dude' that is not any sort of rebuttal or argument.

That's like you asking me where to find blue apples and I go 'LOL GO OUTSIDE AND LOOK AROUND THEY'RE EVERYWHERE'

The fact that they're not the same people there.

Let me rephrase. What makes our community fundamentally different than the other ones out there? I love our community, but fundamentally, it's just some Final Fantasy fans at its core. What's so special about us?

 

[Max Payne]

It is a dumb cop out statement. If I told you that 'Yeah there are totally other forums that worship 8 legged purple goats' and you asked "Oh yeah, which ones?" and I said 'LOL just search google dude' that is not any sort of rebuttal or argument.

For one thing, I wouldn't do something so juvenile. The simple fact it's applicable, whether you think it's dumb or not.

That's like you asking me where to find blue apples and I go 'LOL GO OUTSIDE AND LOOK AROUND THEY'RE EVERYWHERE'

No, it's not.

Let me rephrase. What makes our community fundamentally different than the other ones out there? I love our community, but fundamentally, it's just some Final Fantasy fans at its core. What's so special about us?

The fact that people at their core are not the same, we don't act just like every other community out there, nor do we conduct ourselves the same.

It's nothing special, it's the way people are.

 

[Tetsujin]

To be honest, I don't even see why the idea of teams even came up. Right now, it just seems like doing everything ACF did. We don't really need all of that imo. Unless we gather translation teams fgj.
Since to me, the Ultimania translations are what it's all about (I would love Ultimania translations of other FF games too, imo =P)

And most importantly: There is no need for discussing it unless we get a couple hundred members or so with enough people that would warrant a couple of teams.
We might as well discuss this when the time is right and enough people are interested.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=194.msg4867#msg4867 date=1230688967]
To be honest, I don't even see why the idea of teams even came up. Right now, it just seems like doing everything ACF did. We don't really need all of that imo. Unless we gather translation teams fgj.
Since to me, the Ultimania translations are what it's all about (I would love Ultimania translations of other FF games too, imo =P)

And most importantly: There is no need for discussing it unless we get a couple hundred members or so with enough people that would warrant a couple of teams.
We might as well discuss this when the time is right and enough people are interested.
[/quote]

I can agree with that, but my whole point was we wouldn't have to do it the same way acf did.

It's just a way of adding more to the board, but it's not the only one.