Teams

[Makoeyes987]

LOL

@Gabriel

Actually, yes. It would.

Looking at the statistics, already the main's site's focus is around the 3rd and 4th position in terms of most active threads and posts. We don't need anything else to suck up activity and distract the forum from its main purpose and dedication. We especially don't need an added sub-forum when we have a system for social groups and stuff already in place. Use it, since it's there to be used.

Members can be brought together without the use of a separate sub-forum, dude. That is not the most expedient or only way to do so. Again, post more, get to know each other in General Chat, hit each other up on PM, or make a social group for your friends. There's no need to completely bypass and ignore the current means of socialization JUST to make a new subforum. There isn't.

There's no "harm" in a test drive, but there are such things as a waste of time and resources. It's another concept that can stay exclusive to ACF. We don't need it.

 

[Geostigma]

I think testing it out would merit the loss of say 1 day to make rules and 10 minutes to implement , its ridiculously simple to make a new usergroup and subforum.
i just dont see why your so aversed to such a simple little nick nack.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Because it isn't as simple as you think it is.

 

[Geostigma]

Because it isn't as simple as you think it is.

umm last i checked you werent me so stop assuming something for me

Secondly last i checked you werent even a part of any teams on ACF

And lastly , yes it is that simple

 

[Cat Rage Room]

umm last i checked you werent me so stop assuming something for me

Ummm last time I checked you weren't part of the Staff so you don't know the inner workings of the decision making etc of the site. I mean, I don't mean to be mean, but that's why Mako is saying what he's saying.

Secondly last i checked you werent even a part of any teams on ACF

Irrelevant to what you're asking. Irrelevant in general, actually. See, comments like this, this is the elitism stuff that people are saying.

And lastly , yes it is that simple

No, it isn't. It would require deliberation in the staff forum (with all the disagreements and such before it would even be done), a waste of the time to do it and see if it works (especially considering that we know we don't want it at this time), and nobody on Staff wants it anyway. Say it does succeed in the way you're talking about. Great, but that goes against what we feel is best for the site.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No dude, it isn't that simple. No one cba now to draft up rules, create new subforums for teams and shit, and then open it up and monitor it for appropriateness and shit for a few test days when everyone has other projects and content to do to improve the forum and frontpage that focus on the site's focus here and now. It's an unnecessary diversion of time and resources, especially when social implements such as social groups exist already for members to use.

We're not making a more elaborate and unnecessary function for a function that's already served and given right now. This is not ACF. We do not need to do what ACF does. This isn't ACF-2 and we're not interested in making it like ACF. We're doing our own thing so we can be our own unique FF community here.

 

[Geostigma]

Ummm last time I checked you weren't part of the Staff so you don't know the inner workings of the decision making etc of the site. I mean, I don't mean to be mean, but that's why Mako is saying what he's saying.

Fair enough , im not a part of the staff of this forum so i dont know how you guys run everything. How ever i am part of the staff of this forum
http://forum.dofus.com/en/
aka on a mmorpgs official site , i think i know how most staffs inner workings pan out.
Never the less that tidbit was in relevance to my know how of the vB control panels , i know my way in and out of this software so i do know just how simple setting something like this up is.

Irrelevant to what you're asking. Irrelevant in general, actually. See, comments like this, this is the elitism stuff that people are saying.

No elitism would be me telling you you cant partake in this conversation because you werent part of a team , im just stating that you really dont know what your talking about when it comes to the inner workings of how a team works. Just like how you stated i dont know how TLS's staff works
That said it is directly relevant , if i was sick i would want the opinion of a doctor not someone whos been to his doctor office before, get me?

No, it isn't. It would require deliberation in the staff forum (with all the disagreements and such before it would even be done), a waste of the time to do it and see if it works (especially considering that we know we don't want it at this time), and nobody on Staff wants it anyway. Say it does succeed in the way you're talking about. Great, but that goes against what we feel is best for the site.

Posting here is a waste of time , we could be out doing something more usefull but were not so that in itself is irrelevant due to the fact that the whole internet is a glorious waste of time.
Secondly have you ever heard of giving the people what they want?
I know you cant sit here and give us child porn but i feel that if a member base is fairly enthusiastic about a feature then the staff of said community should attleast make an attempt at it.

Lastly , yes it is simple.

edit: @mako
ACF isnt the only forum on the net with secret sections for certain usergroups , i dont see how adding this would make it ACF junior. This place is already fundamentally different just due to its epicness.
Seriously , new rules dont even need to be made just give it the same forum rules and send it on the way.

Making the new usergroup takes about 3 minutes , making the new subforum (remember it would be small not huge like ACF's) would take about another 5 , then giving the starter members permissions and what not would probably take another 5 minutes. 13 minutes per team , this can be done in an hour.

Dont sit there and tell me modding forums is difficult either , ive modding forums just as long as you guys.
Fuck i gotta log into a MMORPG and delete bots all fucking day, im sure you guys can handle one more section.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I direct you to Mako's post, because it put it better than I did.

 

[Geostigma]

i read it , now reply to mine
edit:

Btw i dont mean to come off as aggressive if it looks that way.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I still respectfully disagree.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Giving the member's what they want is all well and good, but in the end we're the facilitators and shit of what the forum and site is, and we have a focus and theme we want to stay on. It's our job to keep the site on focus for what it is, and not take away from it.

Teams would do nothing at all in regards to this forum, but distract it from its focus and suck the activity that we need to build up now at this time. ESPECIALLY considering we already implemented Social Groups for members who want to make teams and shit. Why are you not acknowledging their existence and using them? That's what they're there for. We do not need to waste resources, time, and moderating effort trying to add a whole new sub-forum when a much more convenient and accessible social function exists right here and now.

It seems more like some members want to make this forum into some replacement for ACF, and are trying to add it's various concepts and shit here that have no place here. I really don't see why.

 

[Max Payne]

I'm sorry, I'd have no problem with teams.

So that bit saying "no one on staff wants it" isn't really true. I think Highway wasn't entirely opposed to it either. We were just overruled, and I cba for so much pointless bickering and badgering about shit like kids.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I'm sorry, I'd have no problem with teams.

So that bit saying "no one on staff wants it" isn't really true. I think Highway wasn't entirely opposed to it either. We were just overruled, and I cba for so much pointless bickering and badgering about shit like kids.

My mistake.

 

[Geostigma]

Fair enough , how about some leverage.

If its implemented ill donate enough money to this forum to keep it going for atleast the next 5-10 years (i do have the means to do this btw)

Your fear of turning this into ACF 2 seems to be the real reason behind your oposal to this by the way.
if i wanted this place to be ACF the sequel i'd suggest you delete your staff and get darkbeat in there post haste.
I dont want that to happen obviously.

i just believe that one of the best features ACF even had going for it was the teams section, it really cant just be explained but its something nice when all else failed you had your team next to you. It really was like an E-Family im sure anyone whos been in a team on a forum or ACF for awhile will agree with me. Posting GC just doesnt have that same effect , theres something about teams that brings people together on a personal and private manner.

The social groups to me just arent the same thing , and honestly if the member base was given the ultimatum of teams or social groups i would personally vote to have a team.

I dont believe teams would bring the forums down, if the other sections of this forum are failing its not because of a certain section its because people dont want to talk about final fantasy all day long , they want to talk about themselves.
Hell i wouldnt mind telling my life story twice for both the team section chit chat and the GC chit chat , i know i would on ACF and i know others would to.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Fair enough , how about some leverage.

If its implemented ill donate enough money to this forum to keep it going for atleast the next 5-10 years (i do have the means to do this btw)

Oh man, a bribe! I never thought I'd see the day!

 

[Geostigma]

I was planning on donating eventually anyway

the question is how much

edit: and iirc only mako , mog and x were against it last time around with yop being on the fence

 

[Makoeyes987]

*Blinks*

Thank you for the generous offer but I don't think offering us donations to change our moderating decision and dedication to the site and forum focus is ethical, not to mention fair to other members who don't have money and want shit to go their way too.

And it's not just for fear out of this being ACF-2. That's just my observation. I'm not afraid of that happening at all because I'm certainly not going to let that happen.

Teams and shit aren't necessary because we have Social Groups, we have General Chat's Chit-Chat thread, we have PMs, people certainly have the ability to talk outside the forums, and we have a focus here that we need to keep up and adding a whole new sub-forum that will need moderating and rules and shit is not what we need to work on or focus on right now. Furthermore, we seriously don't need to take away anything else from our FF sections.

The social groups are the same if you use them and regulate them. They can have exclusive membership, discussions, and serve as a place to hang out with your buds and socialize. It's perfectly fine and useable. Make it work and it'll work.

You don't believe the teams will bring the forum down or distract its focus, but we have statistics on activity that say otherwise. Your opinion is not the definitive conclusion on the matter, especially when we've just explained how we're trying to NOT take emphasis on our main site's focus.

 

[Geostigma]

Fuuuuuu , i had a decent post going then my cat sat on my pc's power trip and shut it off ;_;

Thank you for the generous offer but I don't think offering us donations to change our moderating decision and dedication to the site and forum focus is ethical, not to mention fair to other members who don't have money and want shit to go their way too.

Is this your way of telling me not to tell the rest of the guys about those pm's i just got from you and asking me to pretend like your not gonna take the bribe?
Ok.

And it's not just for fear out of this being ACF-2. That's just my observation. I'm not afraid of that happening at all because I'm certainly not going to let that happen

Fair enough and im glad your going to keep this place from becoming some dreaded acf spin off.

Teams and shit aren't necessary because we have Social Groups, and adding a whole new sub-forum that will need moderating and rules and shit is not what we need to work on or focus on right now.

*sorry for chopping up your posts , i just added what was relevant to the matter into the quote


If you think about it , teams are alot easier to manage then social groups.
Anyone and everyone can make social groups, its infinetly more troublesome to govern then a few teams would.
Modding a team is like herding a group of cattle thats already fenced in , whilste keeping an eye on an active social group system would be like herding a group of cattle out on the range during a thunderstorm and there all seperated if you get my drift.
Not to mention it just seems like your trying to prevent getting more work handed onto your plate, help yourself out and choose teams imo

If social groups ever gets popular here (yeah right ) it would be infinetly more of a hastle then teams, just because its already there doesnt mean it should be used.
For my sentencing im going to get a lawyer not the shitty public defender, because superior shit is superior.

The social groups are the same if you use them and regulate them. They can have exclusive membership, discussions, and serve as a place to hang out with your buds and socialize. It's perfectly fine and useable. Make it work and it'll work.

Like i said a full social group network will be alot more trouble then teams would be.

You don't believe the teams will bring the forum down or distract its focus, but we have statistics on activity that say otherwise. Your opinion is not the definitive conclusion on the matter, especially when we've just explained how we're trying to NOT take emphasis on our main site's focus.

If anything teams may make this place more active and most likely even out the activity across all the boards.
But none the less its a rule of thumb that all FF boards FF sections are going to be lame as fuck , thats not your fault thats SE's.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Teams aren't going to distract from the sites focus, if anything it'll just generate more activity. We'll have competitions, etc. Also, I'm not exactly sure why you're surprised the Final Fantasy sections aren't receiving the same amount of activity as General Discussion. Practically on every board, General Discussion receives the most activity due to its broad intention. With or without teams, Final Fantasy sections will receive the same amount of activity.

And, compared to teams, Social Groups are quite shit.

I understand and supported why we did not create a Spam section, as it would have created subcultures, etc. But, this is honestly a feature we should let the members decide on. Put up a poll, imho.

Also, it does not take long to create teams. I've done it at other boards. And, I'd have no problem setting them up, and moderating them myself. And rules for teams aren't an issue, we simply use the ones we already have, it's not exactly rocket science.

 

[Makoeyes987]

...LOL what? I didn't send you an PMs about the bribe, stfu

It's true any number of social groups can exist at one time, but they're easier to read through and gleam for abuse than having to go through entirely separate sub forums that are private and privy to only their members. Plus, with the whole privacy shit going on, a lot of complications can arise regarding what can be seen as just being said in private and what should still be considered flaming even if the other person isn't there to read it.

So no, there would be no trouble, and the likelihood of hundreds of social groups simultaneously being consistently active is very small. That's not gonna happen and is a fringe possibility.

And no, that's now how it works. Look at the other sections. They don't boost activity across all the boards. They suck it away and continue to grow and be active. The only thing that brings more activity to the FF boards is more activity and new content regarding Final Fantasy. And FF boards aren't always going to be "lame as fuck" since now we're getting good activity there with ACC's release and we'd like to keep it that way.

Anyways, I don't know what else to say since this seems to just be going in circles. Use the Member Groups instead of asking for a completely new sub-forum add on when we have our hands full improving the current boards as is and getting front page FF content. We're really trying to focus on improving our front page and current forum and more additional sub-forums and shit that's gonna leech the focus and activity from the forum focus is not needed at this time.

If people actually used the Member Groups then we could at least talk about how they're faring and shit. But to complain about wanting a way to socialize when one's been already given and you haven't touched it, doesn't make sense.

@Cookie Monster

You don't think spam and shit would happen in the teams? That's pretty unrealistic. Furthermore, we'd still have more to moderate and adding new subforums and shit isn't something we need to do. The stats show that the most active section is general chat and clubs, and that was the case since we started the forum; only now are we getting consistent activity on our FF boards. We really don't need to be focusing on turning that stuff away from that. If anything activity needs to be brought there and on our site's focus. Just ignoring it and saying thats just how it happens isn't going to help.

Just like on ACF's teams, people are going to stay within the team and not post outside of it or contribute towards the site's focus. That's just a consequence and reality of what the team sub forum entailed through history. It almost becomes its own satellite forum and we really don't need that vacuum.

FFS, what do the Member Groups exist for then? No one has even used them, and I'd be a lot more inclined to see the relevance in teams if people actually used what's here instead of asking for a completely new add on who's function is served by the current existing software.

 

[Munatik]

A team is a group of members part of a usergroup that has access to a private sub forum here.
most of the time the teams compete in competitions like signature making , story telling ect.

Teams ultimate feature is that they bring members closer together though

Thank you muchly!

Based on that description, I can see their benefit. I like the possibility of there being a fun and productive way to encourage members to interact more with one another.

Having said that, I also don't think it is a good idea. I am probably still too much a noob right now to really weigh in on this with any credibility. I apologize for the presumption, but as a member I think it's alright if I express my concern.

In a nutshell, I think teams would not only encourage cliquish behavior, but to me would clash with the theme of this forum, i.e. ACC and the FFVII universe. My biggest problem is this: if teams are given a private subforum like you say, or even just a different label, then it becomes exclusive. To me, that is the most alarming thing about the idea--it is inherently divisive. Exclusion always always always breeds disunity and resentment, and that inevitably causes drama, no matter how many rules or mods you put toward regulating it.

Don't get me wrong--there are members here who I can see are mature and responsible and would probably be very professional about their teamwork. But I can't for certain say that about everyone absolutely, either presently or in the future. Can you?

In addition to exclusivity, I think private forums would discourage participation in the main sections, much like a spam section would. I know that the point of a forum is to socialize and make friends over a shared interest. That's a wonderful thing, but the powers that be have to square that with the fact that this is a community based on FFVII and the latest news about the Compilation. That's why people join this community in the first place. If I were a brand new visitor to this site, and had come here because I like FFVII and the Compilation, what would I like to see when I go to the forum? When I think about it that way, my mind is closed on the matter.

tl;dr: Exclusivity is bad, thus teams are a bad idea.

 

[Geostigma]

It's true any number of social groups can exist at one time, but they're easier to read through and gleam for abuse than having to go through entirely separate sub forums that are private and privy to only their members. Plus, with the whole privacy shit going on, a lot of complications can arise regarding what can be seen as just being said in private and what should still be considered flaming even if the other person isn't there to read it.

IIRC , if your talking shit your still talking shit whether they can see it or not and is warnable.Teams are for socialising , not acting like high school teenage girls , and thus should be a warnable offence.

Not to mention these team sub forums , if to plan wont be huge at all like i said just the bare essentials will suffice especially for a test drive. GC , hello/goodbyes, feed back.

And no, that's now how it works. Look at the other sections. They don't boost activity across all the boards. They suck it away and continue to grow and be active. The only thing that brings more activity to the FF boards is more activity and new content regarding Final Fantasy. And FF boards aren't always going to be "lame as fuck" since now we're getting good activity there with ACC's release and we'd like to keep it that way.

if your so adament on saving your glorigous FF7 section close the rest of the sections
What do you plan on doing after people get tired of ACC's new content?
I doubt you can stop this place from turning into ACF in terms of FF section activity at that point.

Anyways, I don't know what else to say since this seems to just be going in circles. Use the Member Groups instead of asking for a completely new sub-forum add on when we have our hands full improving the current boards as is and getting front page FF content. We're really trying to focus on improving our front page and current forum and more additional sub-forums and shit that's gonna leech the focus and activity from the forum focus is not needed at this time.

When i say this i dont mean to say it in an aggressive tone but...

Last i checked your not the final say , More of the staff is for this or willing to give it a shot then just you and mog so no i will not just give up like you are and use the social groups im going to keep on asking for this well after you have given up.
Seriously , your a team stop bringing up this more work shit you accepted the staff job to do a job dont be surprised when you get handed more work.
If you work as a team then it wont be that much of a problem, i spend all day on a forum regulating 3 servers worth of players (each server can hold up to 5 million players iirc), mentoring new players and deleting bots across all 3 of those servers whilst playing on my real character as well.
I knew full well what the job entailed thus why i dont complain when my community manager asks me to get on bot detail (which is the most tedious shit you can ever do) , i would reckon i do far more then you do alone on this forum every day for that game , so im sure you guys can handle 3 or so more sections.

If people actually used the Member Groups then we could at least talk about how they're faring and shit. But to complain about wanting a way to socialize when one's been already given and you haven't touched it, doesn't make sense.

its not the same thing

Anyway Like i said more staff favors this then staff that isnt in favor of it why dont we get a poll going?

edit:

am probably still too much a noob right now to really weigh in on this with any credibility.

We are not elitist here , everyone has there 2 cents and there all allowed to share it , never say that again newb or vet everyone has there say so dont worry

 

[Munatik]

We are not elitist here , everyone has there 2 cents and there all allowed to share it , never say that again newb or vet everyone has there say so dont worry

Aww, I am so very glad to hear that!

 

[Cookie Monster]

You don't think spam and shit would happen in the teams?

That's why we moderate, duh. Even one moderator can moderate all the teams, and I'm willing to do so. It's not that hard.

The stats show that the most active section is general chat

Yeah, as I said, because of its broad intention. There's so much to talk about in GD, where as each FF section has one primary focus. GD is not sucking away activity from those sections, there's just not as much to talk about within them. FF sections are only receiving more activity because ACC was just released, it has nothing to do with General Discussion.

Just like on ACF's teams, people are going to stay within the team and not post outside of it.

I have to call bullshits. Within FC and SO, there was only one person that didn't post outside of teams, and that was Meteo. And, Fated Children had FCF anyway. RoA and CI kept within their teams because of past drama, which isn't going to happen here.

FFS, what do the Member Groups exist for then? No one has even used them, and I'd be a lot more inclined to see the relevance in teams if people actually used what's here instead of asking for a completely new add on who's function is served by the current existing software.

I've used them, as have a few other members. They received some activity the first two days and then they'd die off. Why? Because they're incredibly shitty. Just because "it's there" doesn't make it useful or practical for that matter.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Why are the Member Groups shitty?

I'm not understanding the resistance to actually using them and stuff