The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Zee]

Hey, she's the one who posted it and put herself out there, not me. But I'm droppin' it in any case.

 

[Joker]

Let fandom discuss what it wants.

O that wacky Mako. You and your crazy ideas.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ryu, why don't you go there?

http://www.thefinalfantasy.com/foru...ngle-debate-cloud-destined-tifa-aerith-5.html

I'm tired of dealing with him.

EDIT
see Ryu? You didn't come quick enough and I went off on him again.

Believe it or not, I am not online 24/7. If I was, I'd demand some sort of GITS style cyberbrain and do IRL and internet side by side.

Let's be nice.

Some people like to discuss whether or not Han shot first. Others, argue whether or not Sephiroth was really trying. And some people debate whether Picard or Kirk were the better topics.

Let fandom discuss what it wants.

He did, or if he didn't, his shot wasn't a reaction, it was just a little slow, but he was still trying on killing Greedo before Greedo killed him. Sephiroth was being serious, but he failed to take advantage of a possible kill to achieve his intentional goal, leading to his downfall. And the last question is entirely subjective and misses the point that either man will be superior to the other in his given specialty.

Anyways, Quex, I don't feel like popping back in over there right now. See if Rufus will transition.

 

[null]

Let's be nice.

Some people like to discuss whether or not Han shot first. Others, argue whether or not Sephiroth was really trying. And some people debate whether Picard or Kirk were the better topics.

Let fandom discuss what it wants.

I can agree with that.

Not the being nice part, but the freedom to discuss and enjoy complete bullshit in our spare time. Glad you're back bro.

Also, Kirk >>>>>>>>>>> Picard. PEACE OUT.

 

[Dashell]

Que your obsession for arguing this bullshit one three different forums is scary

and also you kinda come off like a dick

yeah I knew this post would get thanked a bajillion times.

I started a debate over there. My first post is very clear. I want people to present why they feel that way. When they don't, or when they try to tell me I'm wrong, I expect them to present some evidence as to why, and not just make up rules and ignore what I say. That's all.

At any rate, I've always been a dick about this so I'm not sure why some people are just noticing it now.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I can agree with that.

Not the being nice part, but the freedom to discuss and enjoy complete bullshit in our spare time. Glad you're back bro.

Also, Kirk >>>>>>>>>>> Picard. PEACE OUT.

At least everyone can agree both are better than Janeway and Archer. And that Sisko is a badass mother.

yeah I knew this post would get thanked a bajillion times.

I started a debate over there. My first post is very clear. I want people to present why they feel that way. When they don't, or when they try to tell me I'm wrong, I expect them to present some evidence as to why, and not just make up rules and ignore what I say. That's all.

At any rate, I've always been a dick about this so I'm not sure why some people are just noticing it now.

You shouldn't have phrased it as 'destined,' that's just a terrible way to bring the debate about. The question is and always should be phrased as 'Who was Cloud's choice' which strips the discussion of its fantastic elements and grounds it where it should be, the very simple discussion of an awkward man's preference between two hot women he may or may not deserve.

 

[Tennyo]

yeah I knew this post would get thanked a bajillion times.

I started a debate over there. My first post is very clear. I want people to present why they feel that way. When they don't, or when they try to tell me I'm wrong, I expect them to present some evidence as to why, and not just make up rules and ignore what I say. That's all.

At any rate, I've always been a dick about this so I'm not sure why some people are just noticing it now.

When I said let what happens on other forums remain on other forums, I mean you, too. No more discussion on this, please.

 

[Vendel]

EDIT
see Ryu? You didn't come quick enough and I went off on him again.

Somehow I imagine Q beating someone over the head going "Why do you make me do this?"

 

[Dashell]

When I said let what happens on other forums remain on other forums, I mean you, too. No more discussion on this, please.

Yes mam

Somehow I imagine Q beating someone over the head going "Why do you make me do this?"

I always blame everything on Ryu, he's used to it. IN fact, it's his fault I'm posting this

 

[Max Caulfield]

At least everyone can agree both are better than Janeway and Archer. And that Sisko is a badass mother.

Anyone is better than Archer. Good Lord, I hated that character. And the rest of them. And the show. I couldn't even stand the Vulcan chick despite the amount of almost nude shots we got of her throughout the seasons.

Janeway was awesome. She didn't take shit. Granted, her hair in the first couple of seasons was weird, but I liked her after she got it cut.

 

[Dashell]

I finally compiled what I believe to be all the Cloti quotes from the various sources. If anyone sees any missing (or any Clerith ones for that matter), let me know (but check the in the middle page first)

http://killthemongoose.com/ltd/?page_id=4

(will probably work on layout next)

 

[Tifabelle]

That in the middle quote is funny. When is that from?

There seems to be complicated feelings that exceed mere childhood friends toward Cloud.

Interesting. And when it says "the event in the Forgotten City", I assume it means

Spoiler

Aerith's death

her tone becomes more feminine.

Hmm. Is that a Japanese phrasing? How does a tone become more feminine? It's more demure?

Cloud's memories were different from reality. No matter what, I believe in him. He must be Cloud of Nibelheim. I'm sure of it because he still holds tender memories from our childhood...

Well that's just frackin' cute. I like that.

her prudent personality has no luck*

wut up wit the asterisk? XD There's no explanation. I realize the sentence is odd, so there must be a reason you put an asterisk.


That's just the Dismantled stuff I looked at. I too sleepy for more. I'll look more tomorrow.

 

[Dashell]

That in the middle quote is funny. When is that from?

Err which one? There's a few.

Hmm. Is that a Japanese phrasing? How does a tone become more feminine? It's more demure?

I think maybe it means her speech, I'll have to look at it again.

wut up wit the asterisk? XD There's no explanation. I realize the sentence is odd, so there must be a reason you put an asterisk.

I c/ped this from Chibica on the Clerith forums... I think she explained something there but... I guess it's not needed.

 

[Tifabelle]

Err which one? There's a few.

Oh crap. I swear there was only one when I first clicked on the link, lol. The first one; Nomura interview. I didn't even see the other ones.

I think maybe it means her speech, I'll have to look at it again.

I don't think your translation is wrong or anything. I just don't understand it. It's not really something we'd say in English. At least not where I'm from. So like, her style of speaking? What would make it feminine? Or more so?

 

[Dashell]

Oh crap. I swear there was only one when I first clicked on the link, lol. The first one; Nomura interview. I didn't even see the other ones.

Some really old magazine, like before AC even came out. Maybe... 2002? 2005 at the latest.

I don't think your translation is wrong or anything. I just don't understand it. It's not really something we'd say in English. At least not where I'm from. So like, her style of speaking? What would make it feminine? Or more so?

Hmm this is what I have:

物語の後半から口調が女らしくなっていくのは

物語 - story
後半- second half
から - after
口調 - tone (subject)
女らしく - more like a woman
なって - becomes/twists?

So her tone becomes more like a woman where as before it was more harsh I believe. Then again we don't really HEAR her so I'm not sure where they got that from

 

[Ryushikaze]

Anyone is better than Archer. Good Lord, I hated that character. And the rest of them. And the show. I couldn't even stand the Vulcan chick despite the amount of almost nude shots we got of her throughout the seasons.

Janeway was awesome. She didn't take shit. Granted, her hair in the first couple of seasons was weird, but I liked her after she got it cut.

Janeway took a lot of shit. She took Torres- who can't identify shit WITH a Tricorder, and Neelix. Say what you will of Jar Jar Binks, he's not NEELIX. She's also a despot.

Some really old magazine, like before AC even came out. Maybe... 2002? 2005 at the latest.

I always found this a suspiciously specific denial. It's 'I was asked about their relationship in the two years after FF7,' not 'I was asked for two years about their relationship.'

Hmm this is what I have:

物語の後半から口調が女らしくなっていくのは

物語 - story
後半- second half
から - after
口調 - tone (subject)
女らしく - more like a woman
なって - becomes/twists?

So her tone becomes more like a woman where as before it was more harsh I believe. Then again we don't really HEAR her so I'm not sure where they got that from

Whereas before it was the tone of a childhood friend rather than an intererested woman being honest with herself.

"Cloud is boldly called out for a date, and everything is spur of the moment. In the end, the romantic love is not conveyed. Things constantly proceed quickly; in contract with Aerith, she is unable to convey her feelings clearly because of her timidity."

Contrast.

BTW, What's the original on 'Despite Cloud's good will?' Because that sounds a bit mangled on my end, and makes me wonder if it's not referring to a good will towards Cloud.

At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke... his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.
But Cloud is clueless.

How is THIS pro Clerith? It's pro 'Aerith loves Chocobutt' which is assumed and irrelevant.
This is actually anti Clerith-in-actuality, as a Clueless Cloud cannot be in a relationship with Aerith.

You may want to subdivide things a smidge further into 'Evidence that Girl loves Cloud' and more importantly 'Evidence Cloud romantically loves the girl,' since Cloud loving Aerith is utterly beside the point of demonstrating the affection flows the other way.

Tifa's UO profile alone rather firmly cements the 'Cloti-in-Actuality', what with noting her initial difficulty of expressing romantic love, then her later ease at sharing them, Cloud sharing back, etc.

Oh, and Gondola. Not Gondora.

 

[Tifabelle]

Whereas before it was the tone of a childhood friend rather than an intererested woman being honest with herself.

I see. I can understand that.

How is THIS pro Clerith? It's pro 'Aerith loves Chocobutt' which is assumed and irrelevant.
This is actually anti Clerith-in-actuality, as a Clueless Cloud cannot be in a relationship with Aerith.

You may want to subdivide things a smidge further into 'Evidence that Girl loves Cloud' and more importantly 'Evidence Cloud romantically loves the girl,' since Cloud loving Aerith is utterly beside the point of demonstrating the affection flows the other way.

Unless her idea is gathering quotes of both nature. That Aerith loves Cloud, and that Cloud loves Aerith. Why not have them in the same place? Unless you mean subdivide the actual Clerith/Cloti Quotes pages by having headers of "Aerith loves Cloud" "Cloud loves Aerith" and [cloti equivalent] in which case I support. That might be a good idea.

EDIT: Or you can put that as an "in the middle" quote.

Oh, and Gondola. Not Gondora.

Q is truly immersing herself in the Japanese language.


EDIT: Ok, ok. This seems a bit random, but remember a few days ago we somehow were talking about Cloud's fame or some crap?

There has to be a certain degree of fame. People in WRO recognized Vincent. So it would stand to reason that people would know Cloud as well. Reeve also referred to himself as a hero of the "Jenova War" too.

I happen to come across this: "In 「FFVII」, the purpose of the fighting was to stop Meteor from destroying the planet. Word spread of Cloud’s group protecting the planet against Sephiroth and his Jenova-kind. After Sephiroth’s defeat they became known as the 「Heroes of the Jenova War」."

That's from the 10th anniversary ultimania: http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/220/final-fantasy-vii-series-terms-and-definitions/

It doesn't need discussion or anything, just wanted to mention it, lol.

 

[Dashell]

I always found this a suspiciously specific denial. It's 'I was asked about their relationship in the two years after FF7,' not 'I was asked for two years about their relationship.'

I always thought it said that too TBH

"Cloud is boldly called out for a date, and everything is spur of the moment. In the end, the romantic love is not conveyed. Things constantly proceed quickly; in contract with Aerith, she is unable to convey her feelings clearly because of her timidity."

Contrast.

Oh pfft... Tres pointed that out too and I forgot to fix it.

BTW, What's the original on 'Despite Cloud's good will?' Because that sounds a bit mangled on my end, and makes me wonder if it's not referring to a good will towards Cloud.

クラウドが前からティファに好意を抱いていたのに対し、 ティファのほうはクラウドに関心がなく、 約束を交わした時点から彼を意讖しはじめる。 周囲の仲良しがつぎつぎと自分のそばから去ってしまった寂しきもあっただろうが、それ以上に、 自分のヒーローになってくれると約束してくれたことが大きかったのだろう

It's on page 25 of the UO in the margin if you wanna double check the Japanese.

EDIT:
okay I had a bad kanji in there. I had 苅 instead of 対 so that might have thrown off this person's translation. Go ahead and take a look. But really look at these two 苅 vs 対 can you blame me?

How is THIS pro Clerith? It's pro 'Aerith loves Chocobutt' which is assumed and irrelevant.
This is actually anti Clerith-in-actuality, as a Clueless Cloud cannot be in a relationship with Aerith.

Neither can a Cloud that doesn't know Tifa's feelings but I put those quotes up as well

You may want to subdivide things a smidge further into 'Evidence that Girl loves Cloud' and more importantly 'Evidence Cloud romantically loves the girl,' since Cloud loving Aerith is utterly beside the point of demonstrating the affection flows the other way.

Tifa's UO profile alone rather firmly cements the 'Cloti-in-Actuality', what with noting her initial difficulty of expressing romantic love, then her later ease at sharing them, Cloud sharing back, etc.

That's not a bad idea actually. I'll think about something like this.

Oh, and Gondola. Not Gondora.

I c/ped that from Clerith.com, don't look at me

 

[Ryushikaze]

I see. I can understand that.

It fits with the basic progression.

Unless her idea is gathering quotes of both nature. That Aerith loves Cloud, and that Cloud loves Aerith. Why not have them in the same place? Unless you mean subdivide the actual Clerith/Cloti Quotes pages by having headers of "Aerith loves Cloud" "Cloud loves Aerith" and [cloti equivalent] in which case I support. That might be a good idea.

Yes, subdividing them into evidence that shows A likes B, B likes A, and A and B like each other, and generic.

EDIT: Or you can put that as an "in the middle" quote.

Some of the ones on that page don't make much sense to be there, either.

Q is truly immersing herself in the Japanese language.

Tlury.

I happen to come across this: "In 「FFVII」, the purpose of the fighting was to stop Meteor from destroying the planet. Word spread of Cloud’s group protecting the planet against Sephiroth and his Jenova-kind. After Sephiroth’s defeat they became known as the 「Heroes of the Jenova War」."

That's from the 10th anniversary ultimania: http://thelifestream.net/final-fanta...d-definitions/

It doesn't need discussion or anything, just wanted to mention it, lol.

They became known as it, but are their faces known? I really do think a story where Cloud and Tifa began dealing with sudden fame after someone makes the connection would be interesting, because apart from Red, they'd be the least interested in it.

I always thought it said that too TBH

I've always looked at it and went 'Why the hell did you say two years...' in much the same way a detective might mention 'I never said how he was killed, Mr. Smythe.'

クラウドが前からティファに好意を抱いていたのに対し、 ティファのほうはクラウドに関心がなく、 約束を交わした時点から彼を意讖しはじめる。 周囲の仲良しがつぎつぎと自分のそばから去ってしまった寂しきもあっただろうが、それ以上に、 自分のヒーローになってくれると約束してくれたことが大きかったのだろう

It's on page 25 of the UO in the margin if you wanna double check the Japanese.

EDIT:
okay I had a bad kanji in there. I had 苅 instead of 対 so that might have thrown off this person's translation. Go ahead and take a look. But really look at these two 苅 vs 対 can you blame me?

YES. I CAN.
Will I?
Maybe.

Neither can a Cloud that doesn't know Tifa's feelings but I put those quotes up as well

Cloud not knowing their feelings is relevant, in its own way, but they become irrelevant without other quotes which give us greater context, like Tifa's romantic feelings and the matched/ mutual feelings, and especially the matched romantic feelings without words.

That's not a bad idea actually. I'll think about something like this.

Strive always for clarity and truth.

I c/ped that from Clerith.com, don't look at me

Bad CPer. Bad.
Definitely get to work on that.
Oh! And put up page numbers where you have them. It helps.

 

[Dashell]

Some of the ones on that page don't make much sense to be there, either.

I should probably explain why they're there.

Strive always for clarity and truth.

Just remember I'm trying to keep my own views out of this as much as possible.

Bad CPer. Bad.
Definitely get to work on that.
Oh! And put up page numbers where you have them. It helps.

Will do... so is it that Cloud has good will toward Tifa then?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm finally getting caught up on this thread and replying to peeps!

If that's the case, then the construction of the thought is terrible, and really just confirms Maiden needs a major rewrite, and Benny needs a better editor for long writing.

He could definitely use one, no doubt.

Hence my suggestion to move the evac to a later, interim date after the placidity has ended for good.

I would agree if the original game hadn't shown a storm beginning that night and abating by sometime the next day.

Oh, you...
The thing is though, while terrible compared to now, the graphics here are detailed enough to show Sephy's frownyface.
Benny going 'He was smiling there' is much like going 'And so Warrior or Light shot Garland with his Desert Eagle.'

In fairness, it's not any more awkward than "Palmer getting hit by a truck means he got away."

No, but holy is the opposite of meteor, good and evil, light and dark, i mean nomura's lovechild is kingdom hearts, you know he loves this shit

I'm surprised no one pointed out during that longwinded argument over the FFVII logo that Nomura didn't draw it. Amano did.

And more surprised still that after the argument was over and hito mentioned that it was drawn by Amano and then OWD did too that nobody seemed to reconsider their prior statements about Nomura ambiguiting it up.

Not saying that it couldn't have still been intended to be ambiguous, but it's not really like Amano to do that. His stuff might look like he just kicked over a few jars of paint and allowed it to puddle and settle where it would, but it's still usually obvious at the end of the day what he was going for.

On a related note, it seems like "Nomura" is used in this fandom the same way "Hajime Yatate" is -- except only one of them really is a collective psuedonym for the contributions of an entire staff.

I never finished X so I don't really know, but I recall a few people saying it was Jecht's sphere, not Yuna's. I don't know about all the other characters, but for the ones I am familiar with the crystals don't seem random -- Zidane has the crystal from the ending of IX (again, the logo of his game), Squall has the feather represented by Rinoa (because VIII had jack shit of a plot outside of shitty romance) and Tidus has the sphere.

First, I need to say that I literally jumped out of my seat and clapped my hands when I read this, because I visualized Que bashing her head against her monitor when she saw you say that Squall's crystal was a feather.

So, thank you for that.

Second, though, I want to point out that in addition to Squall's crystal not being a feather, Zidane's isn't necessarily the crystal from the end of the game either. The master crystal isn't the only one with that design -- the crystals within planets all look like that too if the diagrams in FFIX's Ultimania are anything to go by.

Which they probably are. There's a crystal in Bran Bal you can walk right up to, and it looks like that.

also can someone explain to me how what he's holding is not a feather

And when you posted this, I expected someone to respond with stuff like, "So, what, Terra's crystal is a snowflake and Bartz's is a stick?" But no one did. =(

You people disappoint me.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

The WM was supposed to be insignificant at first glance. Aeris wears it in her hair in plain view and no one ever comments on her wearing a materia on her head. That's because the size and color are off and it is considerably smaller. It's literally the size of a tiny marble.

LOOK AT HOW SMALL THE FUCKING THING IS! (0:51)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6BY-rGrYa0

So no, Ryu is not fucking nitpicking at all.

No skin off my back if you think it's WM, but people are making it seem like it'd be the viewer's first thought and anyone else is just reaching/nitpicking when in actuality, ALL magic materia in FFVII is green and materia system is pretty much what the gameplay's based on.

 

[Zee]

i tried to log in as "nomura"



wat


but wait I had a post.

Yes, my bad, the logo was done by Amano not Nomura. My confusion stemmed from the fact that I knew Amano stepped down from a ton of responsibilities in the art/graphic department, but I couldn't remember the specifics. I think it's just that usually his logo style is...idk, more distinctive? Like, X, XII, and XIII you can tell are his artwork. FFVII's just looked different to me.

But, my bad, was totally wrong on that.

However--even if Amano is not into symborism as much as Nomura, that doesn't mean the logo still wasn't purposely ambiguous. FFVII was never supposed to have a compliation; the ending was purposely a mindfuck that people argued over. Did they all die? Did Lifestream save everyone? What the fuck is that "Let's go to the promised land!" all about? What really was the promised land? ETC ETC

The same kind of feeling is invoked in the logo--obviously, it's Meteor and a materia, but is it representing Holy coming to save everyone or is it the Black Materia and we're all fucked? It's up to you!

Obviously, we can't really go all out with our interpretations about the ending anymore, which is why I'm inclined to believe it's Holy. But it could really be either. In any case, there's a little materia next to the meteor, was all I was getting at, before a round of selective blindness happened.

First, I need to say that I literally jumped out of my seat and clapped my hands when I read this, because I visualized Que bashing her head against her monitor when she saw you say that Squall's crystal was a feather.

I find it hilarious that it's far more upsetting that Squall's crystal be tied to Rinoa than Cloud's having something to do with Aeris.

I mean granted, it's an awful romance in an awful game, but you gotta just learn to laugh at it.

Seriously though, everyone was so quick to say what it wasn't, but no one that I've seen actually said what it was. Does the Ultimania say what it is? Because I keep looking at it and between Splintered and I, I think we compromised saying it looks like a gunblade with some feathers attached to it. Or spikes. It looks like a gunblade with some crap attached to it.

Which they probably are. There's a crystal in Bran Bal you can walk right up to, and it looks like that.

Considering that's

Spoiler

where he was created

, it would work either way.

All I was trying to get across was that the crystals seem to have some attachment to the hero's specific world/story.

Zidane's isn't necessarily the crystal from the end of the game either. The master crystal isn't the only one with that design -- the crystals within planets all look like that too if the diagrams in FFIX's Ultimania are anything to go by.

In terms of recognition, though, people are far more likely to see the clear similarities between that crystal and the logo of his game rather than in the Ultimania diagrams, a book which not everyone has read.

 

[Dashell]

First, I need to say that I literally jumped out of my seat and clapped my hands when I read this, because I visualized Que bashing her head against her monitor when she saw you say that Squall's crystal was a feather.

So, thank you for that.

Nope, wall, I wouldn't hurt my computer like that.

What really was the promised land?

According to the AC Playbook, when Cloud woke up in Aerith's church.

I find it hilarious that it's far more upsetting that Squall's crystal be tied to Rinoa than Cloud's having something to do with Aeris.

Not sure what you're referring to here but if it was me, my uproar was because you said it was a feather which it isn't. It was the wrong information that upset me. Information that I've corrected several times on this very forum. I realize the feather was tied to Riona, that's a no brainer but his crystal isn't a feather.

All I was trying to get across was that the crystals seem to have some attachment to the hero's specific world/story.

Well yeah I mean Cloud's is materia, whats his face has the thingamabob Squall has a... whatsitcalled and uh... yeah... I'm bad at this But they are clearly all sources of power from their original world, that's true.

However--even if Amano is not into symborism as much as Nomura, that doesn't mean the logo still wasn't purposely ambiguous.

....

The same kind of feeling is invoked in the logo--obviously, it's Meteor and a materia, but is it representing Holy coming to save everyone or is it the Black Materia and we're all fucked? It's up to you!

Well before you seemed pretty adamant about it could only be Holy/White Materia so it's good to see you say it's ambiguous. I guess you mean you admit that holy or White Materia may, in fact, NOT be in the logo?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

However--even if Amano is not into symborism as much as Nomura, that doesn't mean the logo still wasn't purposely ambiguous.

Of course not. I'm just making the point that there's not a lot of reason to think so given that Amano's other logos aren't intended to be.

In any case, because of the monument in Edge, we know that the main part of the logo is intended to be Meteor. The monument even has that little sphere that's caused so much ruckus suspended above the depiction of Meteor:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ozkai/3358905248/
http://www.midgar-rock.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=4042

That brings us no closer to figuring out what the little sphere is, of course, but at least there's no question of what the larger object in the logo is (not that I think there ever really was, but -- as this discussion showed us -- disagreement can and will happen wherever even the most peripherally related to the LTD).

I'm not saying the little sphere's identity isn't ambiguous, by the way. It is. We don't know what it's supposed to be. I just think that if Amano were directly asked this question, he would probably have an answer.

Obviously, we can't really go all out with our interpretations about the ending anymore, which is why I'm inclined to believe it's Holy. But it could really be either. In any case, there's a little materia next to the meteor, was all I was getting at, before a round of selective blindness happened.

I don't really think it's any more likely to be one or the other myself. Given that the picture doesn't make a lot of sense either way (it's not like Meteor had either materia actually following it), it's altogether Amano being stylish. Hell, Meteor doesn't even move fast enough to produce a vapor trail like the one in the logo.

I find it hilarious that it's far more upsetting that Squall's crystal be tied to Rinoa than Cloud's having something to do with Aeris.

For clarification, like Que said, it's that this misconception about his crystal keeps cropping up despite how many times it's been clarified, not that it could have in some way been related to Rinoa. The feather was obviously a reference to Rinoa. The Ultimania for Dissidia even pointed that out.

I mean granted, it's an awful romance in an awful game, but you gotta just learn to laugh at it.

I loved both. =)

Seriously though, everyone was so quick to say what it wasn't, but no one that I've seen actually said what it was.

That's because no one knows. It's damn near impossible to even guess.

Much like the little sphere in the FFVII logo, we can say pretty definitively that it isn't a chocobo, Sephiroth or Cloud's mom, but we don't really know what it actually is. "Probably a materia" is the best we can do.

Whether it's even a specific one is reading more into it than we have reason to.

Does the Ultimania say what it is? Because I keep looking at it and between Splintered and I, I think we compromised saying it looks like a gunblade with some feathers attached to it. Or spikes. It looks like a gunblade with some crap attached to it.

The Ultimania does not say what it is, no. I agree, though, that it looks vaguely like a gunblade, but with some crap attached.

Considering that's

Spoiler

where he was created

, it would work either way.

Yes, but it also works with the prevailing explanation that the crystals more or less represent sources of power associated with their worlds -- WoL's is a mini-Water Crystal, Firion's is a ... thing (we don't know what this one is either), OK's is a mini-Wind Crystal, Cecil's is one of the eight crystals from FFIV, Bart'z is one of many, many crystal shards from FFV, Terra's is a magicite, Cloud's is a materia, Squall's is ... also a thing, Zidane's looks like the crystals that reside at the heart of worlds, and Tidus's is a sphere (same thing as a materia).

All I was trying to get across was that the crystals seem to have some attachment to the hero's specific world/story.

Before you were saying that they represent something personal to the characters, though, rather than something generally related to the worlds they hail from.

In terms of recognition, though, people are far more likely to see the clear similarities between that crystal and the logo of his game rather than in the Ultimania diagrams, a book which not everyone has read.

True enough, but if they played the game they're at least aware that there's more than one crystal that looks like that. And though the Ultimanias are Japan-only, so is BC, so I wouldn't put too much stock into considerations that they may be going with what's most recognizable.

Obviously, recognition wasn't a consideration for Firion and Squall's crystals at any rate.

According to the AC Playbook, when Cloud woke up in Aerith's church.

That's the AC Playback section of FFVII's 10th Anniversary Ultimania, actually.

And that was just Cloud's Promised Land. Everybody has their own.