The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Dashell]

I'm supposed to read that and think Cleriths are the weird ones?

 

[Celes Chere]

She's still a romantic interest in game, so I don't see why that other stuff matters, other than that her destiny as a Cetra > her destiny to bang more soldiers.

Cloud and Tifa never date either, but that has nothing to do with her being a romantic interest.

The difference between Cloud and Tifa not dating and Cloud and Aerith not dating, is that Cloud and Tifa shared mutual feelings, live together, and raise a family together, lol. Tifa is also described as the woman that knows him all too well, and was also the only person who could return Cloud back to his original self. Cloud and Aerith more formed a friendship, so I see nothing hinting at love when it is stated that their destinies collide.

My major point is, there is a difference between Zack and Aerith's being TOGETHER as "destiny" and Cloud and Aerith's "destiny colliding" which sets the events of FFVII in motion. That's... not romantic.

 

[Dashell]

But they never said them being together was destiny. Their encounter was destined, which IMO, is saying the same thing as destinies colliding (or am I thinking of the wrong quote here?)... which COULD just be setting more of the plot in motion as you said. That's honestly how I see it in both cases.

And because I know it'll be brought up again. I want to point out AGAIN that I'm not saying they weren't a couple, I'm not saying they aren't special to one another, I'm NOT saying they didn't love each other or what they had was pointless. I'm saying Aerith loves Cloud as well and given the choice, she'd prefer him to Zack.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Then suddenly, Nomura stood up to unzip his pants. He unzipped several layers of pockets until he zipped open an actual pocket. Inside the pocket were three belts. After he undid each one, he slowly reached inside and took out a swiss army knife.

I just saw this. Its my favorite part

 

[Madame Mayor]

I'm saying Aerith loves Cloud as well and given the choice, she'd prefer him to Zack.

She loves someone she admits she doesn't know and wants to get to know and wants to stop projecting her dead boyfriend onto... more than the dead boyfriend she's said to not be over and still have feelings for?

 

[Dashell]

more than the dead boyfriend she's said to not be over and still have feelings for?

When was it said she wasn't over him O_o

EDIT
or do you mean because she fell for Cloud because of Zack?

 

[Madame Mayor]

How about her feelings for Zack being why she acts the way she does around Cloud. The feelings kind of need to still be there to affect how she acts.

 

[Dashell]

Aerith likes Cloud at first because he reminded her of Zack. I got that, I never denied that. But then she grew to love him for more than that. By the time she died, she was ready to move on. That's what I'm getting at here.

A couple quotes to back that:

Even though Aerith perceived that Cloud had lost sight of his true self, she still has great affection for him.
(FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Aerith's profile)

Although in the beginning, Aerith felt close to Cloud because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud
himself grows and is attracted to him. (FFVII Ultimania Omega, p. 31)

 

[Madame Mayor]

By the time she died, she was ready to move on.

She was ready to start trying to move on. During the game she wasn't trying to move on, she was actively chasing Zack's ghost, and admits to this. She wants to stop that, and start the process of getting to know the real Cloud, then she dies.

Also, slight nitpick, but the quote about her feelings for Zack making her act the way she does around Cloud doesn't have a 'at first'. It has a 'in FFVII'.

 

[Dashell]

Trying to move on or moving on would indicate to me that her feelings for Cloud were greater or else when she realized Cloud was different, she would have stopped chasing him IMO.

Just what I think anyway.

 

[crack]

I don't see a problem with Aerith legitimately having feelings for Cloud. If she 'loved' Cloud more than she loved Zack, I suppose that's how she truly feels about Cloud; but then again, meeting the actual Cloud is something she had yet to do, so I don't think she's necessarily in love with the Cloud she wants to be in love with. She may have been ready to move on, but in the end, her feelings don't override the fact that she fell in love with someone who wasn't himself.

 

[ShuShu]

I don't see a problem with Aerith legitimately having feelings for Cloud. If she 'loved' Cloud more than she loved Zack, I suppose that's how she truly feels about Cloud; but then again, meeting the actual Cloud is something she had yet to do, so I don't think she's necessarily in love with the Cloud she wants to be in love with. She may have been ready to move on, but in the end, her feelings don't override the fact that she fell in love with someone who wasn't himself.

I largely agree with most of this. I think it was a major part of Aeriths character that she gained the strength to move on and love someone again. I don't think that takes away from what she had and felt with Zack... But it should be at least acknowledged. =3

 

[Dashell]

I don't see a problem with Aerith legitimately having feelings for Cloud. If she 'loved' Cloud more than she loved Zack, I suppose that's how she truly feels about Cloud; but then again, meeting the actual Cloud is something she had yet to do, so I don't think she's necessarily in love with the Cloud she wants to be in love with. She may have been ready to move on, but in the end, her feelings don't override the fact that she fell in love with someone who wasn't himself.

That's perfect, I can completely agree with this. Thanks Crack

 

[Celes Chere]

But they never said them being together was destiny. Their encounter was destined, which IMO, is saying the same thing as destinies colliding (or am I thinking of the wrong quote here?)... which COULD just be setting more of the plot in motion as you said. That's honestly how I see it in both cases.

LOL, okay. Yes they have. They have pointed out in MANY different quotes that Zack and Aerith were destined to meet and immediately as Zack fell into the church it was like falling quickly into a crush. You see nothing like that when Cloud and Aerith meet, just about Aerith being able to make Cloud laugh while Jenova is in control of his mind. That doesn't scream 'love is in the air' to me. The CC Ultimania talks all about how "a girl as lovely as flowers blooms in his mind" and how Aerith's attitude towards Zack is sweet, because she falls for him more and more as time goes on. Aerith also makes Zack's heart skip a beat. Please, show me where ANY quotes like that are presented between Cloud and Aerith. =/ I feel like you aren't reading what I am typing.

Zack & Aerith meet = Destiny, the chosen day, in love with a soldier that fell from the sky, irreplaceable, sincere love, inseparable relationship, sudden crush.

Cloud & Aerith meet = Accident. Destinies Collide. Cloud is not himself. Aerith copies something Zack used to say to her, and sees Zack within Cloud. Jenova is in control of Cloud.

This is a thinker! This is how their destinies between two different sets of people... are NOT the same.

I doubt given the choice Aerith would chose Cloud over Zack, lmao. Let's say Zack NEVER died but Aerith just thought that he did, everything happened the same way it did until oh say, up until the date scene where Aerith says she wants to meet the real Cloud. I highly doubt if Zack waltzed right in she'd be going: "Hey, I love this guy I saw YOU in, and I don't even know him really but I want to. So uh, can we put a hold on our inseparable relationship? Lol, by the way I'm wearing your ribbon and the dress you asked me to wear for no reason. Is that thilly? :B"

Now there is nothing wrong with Aerith loving Cloud. I don't think it's moreso than Zack.

 

[Vendel]

My thoughts on this whole love interest stuff can be summed up with a couple of quotes.

[FFVII] Both Aerith, who is forthright, and Tifa, who is demure, have feelings for Cloud but he is none the wiser to them.
.............
She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding.

Cloud is a love interest of both Aerith and Tifa. Cloud's only love interest is Tifa.

Simple as that.

Oh and given the choice Aerith would choose Zack.

 

[Dashell]

Cloud & Aerith meet = Accident. Destinies Collide

I'm not even sure that's possible :lmao:

 

[Max Caulfield]

I'm not even sure that's possible :lmao:

It depends on what you believe involving fate and free will and how much of life is pre-destined.

 

[Celes Chere]

Ask the Ultimania. It is what says Cloud and Aerith meet by accident, but the wheels of fate start turning because of their meeting. AKA, destiny.

 

[Dashell]

I know it says that it just seems like an oxymoron

 

[Dashell]

Oh I didn't see Vendel's post

My thoughts on this whole love interest stuff can be summed up with a couple of quotes.

Cloud is a love interest of both Aerith and Tifa. Cloud's only love interest is Tifa.

I guess you missed this:

Kitase: When I first read Nojima’s scenario, I felt strongly that his image of a heroine was fresh. The hero didn’t have a typical personality, single-minded or righteous, and Aerith lived in the slums. Those things were really fresh. And having 2 heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new. And Sephiroth too, who appears from the start and is the final enemy, and is sort of a rival. For me personally, I think those things which weren’t in past FFs might be the secret to its popularity.

So yeah that pretty much shoots down any "CLOUD NEVER HAD ROMANTIC INTEREST IN TIFA/AERITH!" at least for FFVII

 

[Vendel]

So yeah that pretty much shoots down any "CLOUD NEVER HAD ROMANTIC INTEREST IN TIFA/AERITH!" at least for FFVII

What exactly does it shoot down Q? What wavering does Cloud do? Who does Cloud actually show interest in?

Do the date mechanics which are based on the gals reactions show Cloud wavering? Or how about the date itself? Which Cloud doesn't initiate. Nor does he really respond to in any case.

Please enlighten me how Cloud can be holding onto his feelings for Tifa (Which she became aware of during the LS sequence) show Cloud wavering? What about Cloud on the first disk being completely unaware shows him wavering?

If in development they meant to actually have Cloud respond to your (the players) input more directly it was never implemented.

As it is we have Clouds actual love interest and the red herring. Who if you play the game a certain way on the first disk could be thought of as a possible love interest. But after the LS sequence this notion should have been put to bed.

My post above explained it quite simply. Aerith was never a love interest of Clouds. Ever.

 

[Dashell]

When does he do the wavering? I guess maybe he DID accept Aerith's date sorta kinda (well he didn't object anyway)... and there are times he can flirt with her and flirt with Tifa... things like that... but there was some or else Kitase wouldn't have said that. Unless... you're saying you never saw any wavering, therefore it's not there?

 

[Vendel]

When does he do the wavering? I guess maybe he DID accept Aerith's date sorta kinda (well he didn't object anyway)... and there are times he can flirt with her and flirt with Tifa... things like that... but there was some or else Kitase wouldn't have said that. Unless... you're saying you never saw any wavering, therefore it's not there?

Funny how whenever Aerith's status as a "love interest" is brought up it is always hypothetical. Lot's of 'could be', 'possible', 'maybe' and question marks galore.

It's almost like they are telling us something. Something that happens on the first disk that isn't exactly what it seems.

Almost like...almost like she is not really a love rival nor a love interest.

 

[Dashell]

And having 2 heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them

Nope, no maybes there.

How is Kitase outright stating that Cloud wavered between the two NOT saying she was a love interest at some point? And I'm not saying a relationship happened or that they even shared what they were feeling, but this seems pretty clear cut to me.

 

[Vendel]

Nope, no maybes there.

How is Kitase outright stating that Cloud wavered between the two NOT saying she was a love interest at some point? And I'm not saying a relationship happened or that they even shared what they were feeling, but this seems pretty clear cut to me.

*sigh* let's play the context game.

Kitase: When I first read Nojima’s scenario, I felt strongly that his image of a heroine was fresh. The hero didn’t have a typical personality, single-minded or righteous, and Aerith lived in the slums. Those things were really fresh. And having 2 heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new. And Sephiroth too, who appears from the start and is the final enemy, and is sort of a rival. For me personally, I think those things which weren’t in past FFs might be the secret to its popularity.

I see as much wavering from Cloud as you see Sephy from the beginning and being a rival.

The context of the quote itself is surrounded by talk of the development of the characters in game.

Kitase is either talking about the development of the game. Or is being lose with his wording. EVERYFUCKINGTHING ELSE tells us that Aerith is not a love interest of Clouds.

Honestly Q you should know better than to cherry pick. You have the burden of proof. And you are far from meeting it.