The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Dashell]

Seph IS Cloud's rival... though I don't remember when he was first mentioned, but yeah it's not the "start" ... ugh sorry I'm tired, but I don't think he was being loose with his wording at all.

Something about Cloud wavering being in an early version or something and the Highwind scene with Chocobos is going through my mind but I can't even form a coherent sentence right now so I'll get back to you tomorrow, sorry.

 

[Vendel]

Seph IS Cloud's rival... though I don't remember when he was first mentioned, but yeah it's not the "start"

A removed scene from the game has a conversation between Cloud and Tifa after he says he is done and Tifa reminds him about the promise. They talk about Sephy.

That would be from the start. But obviously it is some time later on the cargo ship that he finally shows up.

So would hours into the game be considered "from the start"? And would a the false choices you make on the fist disk be considered "wavering"? Maybe from the player. But not Cloud.

 

[Roger]

Zack & Aerith meet = Destiny, the chosen day, in love with a soldier that fell from the sky, irreplaceable, sincere love, inseparable relationship, sudden crush.

you're telling me these are all factual quotes? From where?

 

[Celes Chere]

Yes, they are. From the Crisis Core Ultimania. xD Though I think the sudden crush one may have been from an interview, I can't remember.

 

[Roger]

At that chosen day, she accidentally met Zack, SOLDIER 1st Class, and they were attracted to each other…

Just like Cloud in FF7, Zack fell to Aerith’s Church. Meeting him brings along her first love.

「 You fell from the sky. It surprised me. 」

Inspired by the flowers that she forbids trampling, they planned to sell flowers at the market. In CC, Aerith used to say that flowers are indispensable.

「 Stop! Don't step on the flowers! 」

Aerith gently embraced Zack, who came back sad. The atmosphere makes them feel like a couple....

They worded it "that chosen day", that's better, we already have THE chosen day in FF7 so that made me speculative.

Even though Aerith perceived that Cloud had lost sight of his true self, she still has great affection for him. As an Ancient, Aerith had planned to accomplish the mission. On the one hand, her last concern is Cloud.

Don't see much about destiny here but yeah, crisis core ultimania makes it's preferences pretty clear.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Trying to move on or moving on would indicate to me that her feelings for Cloud were greater or else when she realized Cloud was different, she would have stopped chasing him IMO.

Just what I think anyway.

That doesn't make any sense. How does her deciding she's going to get to know Cloud for Cloud rather than for the Zack she sees in Cloud automatically mean she likes that Cloud she doesn't even know yet more?

You make it sound like attempting to move on from a dead lover has anything to do with the amount of love you have for that person.

 

[Zee]

You make it sound like attempting to move on from a dead lover has anything to do with the amount of love you have for that person.

Get that Cleris shit out of this thread


Far as I can tell no one is belittling Aeris' love for Zack. And really, it matters very little if you think she was over him or simply "ready" to be over him, the meaning is still pretty clear that this is a part of her life she's finally okay with putting behind her.

It's perfectly okay to still hold someone dear to you and be okay with the fact that you're not going to be with them anymore. These things don't cancel each other out.

To ignore the fact that she is coming to terms with/getting over/whatever the hell you'd like to call it with Zack's death, is to ignore a pivotal part of her character development and the conclusion of her personal arc.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Get that Cleris shit out of this thread

But sometimes I like that ship.

Far as I can tell no one is belittling Aeris' love for Zack. And really, it matters very little if you think she was over him or simply "ready" to be over him, the meaning is still pretty clear that this is a part of her life she's finally okay with putting behind her.

It's perfectly okay to still hold someone dear to you and be okay with the fact that you're not going to be with them anymore. These things don't cancel each other out.

To ignore the fact that she is coming to terms with/getting over/whatever the hell you'd like to call it with Zack's death, is to ignore a pivotal part of her character development and the conclusion of her personal arc.

I'm not disagreeing with this either. I do believe that by the date with Cloud she's ready to start trying to move on and get to know the man who's in front of her for who he is and not for what she was projecting onto him.

What I don't agree with is that the action of deciding she's ready to move on has anything to do with how much or how little she loves either man, which is what I got from Que's response.

There's also another step to this though that Aerith also points out. Cloud isn't himself, and even after she takes away her Zack projections there's still something blocking her from the real Cloud. She doesn't know what it is, heck she probably doesn't even know that her Zack projections weren't just her fault and that Zack himself is apart of Cloud's fake persona.

If she had been able to meet the real Cloud and form actual feelings for the real him, then which man she "loved more" would have to be determined by her own words or else we'd assume she just simply loves them both.

In the end though, this Cloud doesn't get revealed to Aerith before she dies. Therefore, it's hard to put what she had with Zack and all the potential she might have had with Cloud on the same level.

 

[Roger]

Far as I can tell no one is belittling Aeris' love for Zack.

i think this arguing about who Aeris loved more is getting pretty close actually.

Aerith has met the real Cloud, despite being dead she and Vincent are still the only people the real Cloud can hold a half-decent conversation with, his expressing his desire to be forgiven is as real as Cloud can get.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Cloud is a love interest of both Aerith and Tifa. Cloud's only love interest is Tifa.

Thank you, dear

I know it says that it just seems like an oxymoron

Not really. The wheel starts turning because Aeris and Cloud come together and this meeting sparks off the whole Ancient vs. Seph and the battle for the Planet bs. This meeting sets them off on the road to world-saving

EDIT (again): So Cloud meeting Aeris is an accident because meeting her is a means (for the powers that be) to steer him towards the final battle, and the same goes for Aeris. Cloud is a set up to move her on the path to fulfilling her destiny as a Cetra. Cloud and Aeris' meeting is a set-up for something larger. Their destinies lead them to a common point SO THAT SOMETHING ELSE (destined) may happen, not necessarily with the intent of simply meeting because they are meant to be together (whcih is the case for Zack/Aeris).

and there are times he can flirt with her and flirt with Tifa...

Which means nothign more than you, the player, as Cloud can move between the two (waver?) and are given a few options to play around. That's the only wavering that exists. In the end, the story takes its own course.

EDIT: What Balthz said

 

[ForceStealer]

This is slightly off-topic, but the mention of the player's control over Cloud's flirtations made me wonder.

There were a couple occasions in FF7 in which Yuffie would appear to throw herself at Cloud. I'd have to look some stuff up for specifics but I definitely remember her either playfully flirting with him, in the case of Aeris' death actually throwing herself at him, or, of course, their date.

Now obviously Cloud never had any feelings for her, but its never been mentioned by any material again, has it? Indeed, many argue (though not me) that DoC makes a case for her liking Vincent. And she was only sixteen in FF7, so do we just assume it was a teenage crush? Or even simply part of her ruse in going after their materia?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Now obviously Cloud never had any feelings for her, but its never been mentioned by any material again, has it? Indeed, many argue (though not me) that DoC makes a case for her liking Vincent. And she was only sixteen in FF7, so do we just assume it was a teenage crush? Or even simply part of her ruse in going after their materia?

Yuffie just likes old men.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well liking somone 21 and a hybrid monster that is ageless and over 50 are pretty different and doesn't necessarily peg her as only liking old dudes

 

[Roger]

Vincent is supposed to look like late twenties, that's old. But Cloud i just a chick magnet like that.

Despite his cold behavior in several scenes, Cloud is essentially popular with members of the opposite sex. In addition to FFVII's heroines Tifa and Aerith both having feelings for him, AVALANCHE's Jessie and young Priscilla in Junon both also fall for Cloud soon after they meet him. Even though it's the pitiable aspects of Cloud that stand out, perhaps weaknesses such as those also win over a woman's heart.


[FFVII] Both Aerith, who is forthright, and Tifa, who is demure, have feelings for Cloud but he is none the wiser to them.

[FFVII] One look at Cloud in drag gets Cornero very excited. Do Cloud's charms enslave even members of the same sex?

It still doesn't mention Yuffie but it still.

 

[Winter]

I still can't understand why any woman in their right mind would want Cloud.

 

[Zee]

It is something that is impossible to describe. One might say the same thing about birds.

What are birds?

We just don't know.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You could say that about anyone.

Especially Asuka Langley.

 

[ForceStealer]

Zing!

Cloud's got a whole lot of stereotypically attractive qualities working for him at once. His downtrodden-ness appeals to women's motherly sides (Tifa, Aeris), whereas he's also an incredibly powerful badass that saved the known world (Priscilla, Yuffie), yet still has soft features (The Don, Mukki).

Jack-of-all-trades indeed.

 

[Dashell]

Far as I can tell no one is belittling Aeris' love for Zack. And really, it matters very little if you think she was over him or simply "ready" to be over him, the meaning is still pretty clear that this is a part of her life she's finally okay with putting behind her.

It's perfectly okay to still hold someone dear to you and be okay with the fact that you're not going to be with them anymore. These things don't cancel each other out.

To ignore the fact that she is coming to terms with/getting over/whatever the hell you'd like to call it with Zack's death, is to ignore a pivotal part of her character development and the conclusion of her personal arc.

THANK YOU

So would hours into the game be considered "from the start"? And would a the false choices you make on the fist disk be considered "wavering"? Maybe from the player. But not Cloud.

The player IS Cloud on the first disc dude.

 

[Vendel]

The player IS Cloud on the first disc dude.

No, Jenova is Cloud on the first disk.

 

[Dashell]

Uhm no, not completely anyway. You still make plenty of choices for Cloud in the beginning. None of which have to do with Jenova.

 

[Vendel]

Uhm no, not completely anyway. You still make plenty of choices for Cloud in the beginning. None of which have any effect whatsoever.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Dashell]

Point out when I said that they do. For the last fucking time, me saying Aerith is a possible love interest in FFVII and ONLY FFVII is not saying anything except she's a love interest in FFVII and ONLY FFVII.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's you talking crazy. And when Que talks crazy, she has to get the hose.

Now do we need to get the hose and the clamps, or are you gonna be sane again?

 

[Vendel]

Point out when I said that they do. For the last fucking time, me saying Aerith is a possible love interest in FFVII and ONLY FFVII is not saying anything except she's a love interest in FFVII and ONLY FFVII.

Except she isn't. That is kind of a big reveal in the game.