The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Vendel]

And look at what I am dealing with.

"TxC is completely optional open for interpretation if the highwind scene made Cloti canon, SE sure hasn't been acting like it for the last 12 years, not when they portray Cloud searchin for Aerith in Kingdom Hearts, Cloud runnin away from Tifa in Kingdom Hearts II, Cloud searchin for the Promised Land and meetin Aerith in FF Tactics, Cloud arrivin in a field of Aerith's flowers at the end of Dissidia, and Cloud livin in Aerith's Church in Advent Children/Complete. no love there? YEAH RIGHT."

This person sure packed a lot into one paragraph.

 

[Tennyo]

Where is that from?

 

[Strangelove]

Full stops are completely optional too I guess。

 

[Dashell]

That's nothing, look what I'm dealing with

That is why I dropped the "debate" before I even got involved with it. The game was left open for interpretation for a reason. You can't debate if the other person is not willing to look at your views and review them accordingly.

The only thing I got out of it is that Quexinos asked for opinions but doesn't want to hear them. Hence is not debating at all as he claims but in turn wants to argue. There is no such thing as a one sided debate.

That is the reason I left this thread after a single post and haven't felt obligated to actually return until now (reading your post) to counter the line of crud that he attempted to sling at me.

Quexinos if you want to debate I suggest you learn A: what a debate is B: to actually debate instead of argue.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Correctme if I'm wrong, but isn't debate just a polit word for arguement?

 

[Dashell]

THis person was just butthurt because he couldn't respond to my points I believe.

 

[Ryushikaze]

And look at what I am dealing with.

"TxC is completely optional open for interpretation if the highwind scene made Cloti canon, SE sure hasn't been acting like it for the last 12 years, not when they portray Cloud searchin for Aerith in Kingdom Hearts, Cloud runnin away from Tifa in Kingdom Hearts II, Cloud searchin for the Promised Land and meetin Aerith in FF Tactics, Cloud arrivin in a field of Aerith's flowers at the end of Dissidia, and Cloud livin in Aerith's Church in Advent Children/Complete. no love there? YEAH RIGHT."

This person sure packed a lot into one paragraph.

1. Cloud was not searching for Aerith in KH.
2. Cloud WAS running from Tifa in KH2, but for similar reason- IE- Penance related reasons- as his runabout in AC
3. Cloud WAS NOT SEARCHING FOR THE PROMISED LAND IN FFT. Have these fuckers PLAYED that game? He's searching for A WAY HOME.
4. Squall leaves in those same flowers. The flowers have no relevance to a person, just a world, like Cecil's moon appearing, or Firi's flowers.
5. Cloud and Aerith's church DOESN'T have romance related to it, since he RETURNS TO LIVING WITH THE PEOPLE WHO GIVE HIM HAPPINESS after the end of the movie.

That's nothing, look what I'm dealing with

That is why I dropped the "debate" before I even got involved with it. The game was left open for interpretation for a reason. You can't debate if the other person is not willing to look at your views and review them accordingly.

The only thing I got out of it is that Quexinos asked for opinions but doesn't want to hear them. Hence is not debating at all as he claims but in turn wants to argue. There is no such thing as a one sided debate.

That is the reason I left this thread after a single post and haven't felt obligated to actually return until now (reading your post) to counter the line of crud that he attempted to sling at me.

Quexinos if you want to debate I suggest you learn A: what a debate is B: to actually debate instead of argue.

A debate is a frank and open exchange of ideas undertaken to establish a truth by a thorough examination of the facts.
It strikes me someone bitching like such is not interested in one.

 

[Vendel]

A little follow up. Same person as before.


Are you dumb? So in KH while cloud is "looking for someone" "his light" since when is sephiroth cloud's light for one.This leaves aerith as the only alternative as cloud’s light. It must also be remembered that cloud reaches for aerith’s hand as it appears in a pool of light at the end of Final Fantasy VII, which would also indicate that aerith is indeed cloud’s light.
..............
Oh so this is only about ff7 the game? no other games that the creator help made? all you say is "meaningless" "BS" blah blah blah. Where's your proof? I would LOVE to see something that says EXACTLY "Tifa and Cloud are the canon couple" or something like "Cloud doesn't love Aerith" All I ever see is Cloud and Aerith together, in a lot of different games, where's tifa? NO WHERE cause NO ONE cares.


Man I love these people. I really do.

 

[Raquelborn]

I would LOVE to see something that says EXACTLY "Tifa and Cloud are the canon couple".

[Tifa] and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.

 

[Vendel]

 

[Ryushikaze]

A little follow up. Same person as before.


Are you dumb? So in KH while cloud is "looking for someone" "his light" since when is sephiroth cloud's light for one.

Cloud isn't searching for his light. He's searching for Sephiroth. Cloud never says he's looking for his light.
Meanwhile, even Aerith says Cloud is looking for Sephypoo in KH:FM

This leaves aerith as the only alternative as cloud’s light.

Well, and Tifa. But she doesn't count, because... quantum.

It must also be remembered that cloud reaches for aerith’s hand as it appears in a pool of light at the end of Final Fantasy VII, which would also indicate that aerith is indeed cloud’s light.

That becomes Tifa's hand. So, if that DOES have meaning, where Aerith's hand becomes Tifa's at the last second, it's saying 'HAHA! FOOLED YOU!' To the folks who thought Aerith was coming back/ winding up with Cloud.
Also, KH2: Tifa is light.Sephiroth is darkness. Sephiroth is Cloud's darkness. Tifa, therefore, is...

..............
Oh so this is only about ff7 the game? no other games that the creator help made? all you say is "meaningless" "BS" blah blah blah. Where's your proof? I would LOVE to see something that says EXACTLY "Tifa and Cloud are the canon couple" or something like "Cloud doesn't love Aerith" All I ever see is Cloud and Aerith together, in a lot of different games, where's tifa? NO WHERE cause NO ONE cares.

Tifa gets to be with Cloud in the actual canon timeline. And KH2. And Ehgeiz. And Itadaki St Special inasmuch as any of those other timelines count.

Man I love these people. I really do.

'So what if non of these games are remotely in the same continuity! They should count!'

 

[Vendel]

'So what if non of these games are remotely in the same continuity! They should count!'

Of course the funny part of that is even if they did count it still wouldn't help them.

 

[Dashell]

I keep having someone tell me that it doesn't say what feelings, and that just because the page has another section for non romantic love, that PROVES there's other loves on the page. Since Cloud and Tifa's doesn't mention romantic love specifically, it can be any kind.

Also this person really needs to shut up:

Quexinos is doing that and is using evidence rather than relying on interpretation and the like which arguers such as myself will do instead. If you read the posts, you can see much research has been done; more than I'd find myself doing for ANY subject myself. Hell, in the face of that much evidence I myself certainly find Quexinos' opinion the most highly regarded and it would definitely influence my opinion on the topic were I to actually give a damn about it.

They need to shut up because I don't feel happy when they say good things about me

 

[Ryushikaze]

I keep having someone tell me that it doesn't say what feelings, and that just because the page has another section for non romantic love, that PROVES there's other loves on the page. Since Cloud and Tifa's doesn't mention romantic love specifically, it can be any kind.

That's a special sort of cognitive dissonance that I really do boggle at.
The main header is about attempts at confessing/ displaying romantic love.
The Sub Header is specifically about 'In addition, there are also instances of Non romantic love, like these we're going to mention here'
Somehow, this sub header, explicitly excepting itself from the examples displayed in the main header, affects the main header by making the love non romantic. But only for Cloud and Tifa.

Broken down that's 'This is Group A, about X, in addition, this is Group B about Y.' The cogdis here is saying 'Because Group B about Y exists, Group A about X could also be about Y. But only one part of Group A, of course.'

 

[Vendel]

Holy shit. Just when I thought I had seen it all and this shit couldn't surprise me anymore. Just look at this exchange. Please note this was after I had effectively shot this person down on their KH bull.

The other person will be in italics.

That is an extremely offensive position. "most guys only like CloTi because Tifa has tits".

And as has been said. How do C/T not act like a couple? What do you want? Jet setting honeymoon fairytale romance? Sorry the world of FFVII doesn't work like that. People have to struggle to survive. That combined with the instant family responsibility kind of pushed them past the lovey-dovey stage right into "raise and support family and live their lives together " stage.
..................
Fairy tale? am I asking for that? is anyone asking for that? No. I mean you see couples like Yuna & Tidus, Zidane & Garnet, or even Squall & Riona. They show major hints, YxT for sure with kissing and such. Why can't they show a bit more thing like that in FFVII? Offensive, how? I haven't seen one male (yet) on any forum that says they like CxT just because. No I always see Tifa's hot/sexy/etc. Were never going to be able to end this unless we sit down and talk with the creators.
......................
WHO THE FUCK IS THIS WE? You mean the C/A shippers who can look at an Ultimania quote describing C/T as one of the couples of the FF series (along with the likes of Tidus/Yuna) and declare it means anything other than what it blatantly says?

Wow that goalpost keeps getting pushed back huh? Now it will take a personal interview with the creative team behind FFVII to convince you.
........................
Yeah that's what it's going to take to convince me, cause neither you nor I made this game. You can believe whatever you want to believe in a damn magazine or quotes you didn't hear from their mouths. Fuck the team, worry about just the major creator Hironobu, yeah he got help here and there but that's HIS original concept, and until he can be more clear on who's canon, I'm not going to believe someone on youtube such as yourself.

 

[Super Mario]

Correctme if I'm wrong, but isn't debate just a polit word for arguement?

polit not sure~ but Polite? yep.

 

[Shadowfox]

Fuck the team, worry about just the major creator Hironobu, yeah he got help here and there but that's HIS original concept, and until he can be more clear on who's canon, I'm not going to believe someone on youtube such as yourself.

Hironobu Sakaguchi? Wasn't his original concept for FFVII about some hot-blooded detective named Joe who was pursuing mysteries in New York?

 

[Ryushikaze]

The 'People only like C/T because of her tits' makes me chuckle now. The projection is palpable.

Fairy tale? am I asking for that? is anyone asking for that? No. I mean you see couples like Yuna & Tidus, Zidane & Garnet, or even Squall & Riona. They show major hints, YxT for sure with kissing and such. Why can't they show a bit more thing like that in FFVII?

Yeah, Cloud and Tifa should be more expressive about their couple hood, Like Wakka and Lulu, or Cid and Edea, or Cid and Sierra, or Cid and Hildegarde, or...
You get the picture.

Offensive, how? I haven't seen one male (yet) on any forum that says they like CxT just because. No I always see Tifa's hot/sexy/etc. Were never going to be able to end this unless we sit down and talk with the creators.

Just because a guy says Tifa is a looker does not mean they think she should get Cloud just because she is a looker.
Not everyone is self inserting their preference, kiddo.

Yeah that's what it's going to take to convince me, cause neither you nor I made this game. You can believe whatever you want to believe in a damn magazine or quotes you didn't hear from their mouths. Fuck the team, worry about just the major creator Hironobu, yeah he got help here and there but that's HIS original concept, and until he can be more clear on who's canon, I'm not going to believe someone on youtube such as yourself.

Okay, Nojima, then. He had more to do with the plot of the game than Sakaguchi. He says one of the novellas is about Cloud and Tifa's relationship troubles.
You have to have a relationship to have relationship troubles.

 

[Madame Mayor]

You have to have a relationship to have relationship troubles.

I always loved that. Somehow Tifa and Cloud have romantic relationship issues without being in a romantic relationship. That sounds like the worst thing ever. All the problems and none of the good stuff. No wonder Cloud wants to run away.

 

[Vendel]

This has to be the oddest most ass-pull defense I have ever seen from a shipper.

Please note here I have been trying to explain to the person the difference between canon & fanon.

Making shit up? All of this shit is made up? Don't you understand that this is a game? dumbass. This all was made up! UNDERSTAND THE WORD "FICTIONAL" or do you need a definition? Your "difficult" one, cause you honestly think this is real life, but in REALITY you NEED a life. Quit making yourself look more and more stupid, your making CloTi's more stupid looking than what they are.

Honestly what is this? "This is a fictional universe thus I can't be proven wrong"?


And of course just telling someone else that it's not up to the players to choose who Cloud loves brings this.

Not up to the players? hah, you also are one of the "players" so fuck you on that part. If it wasn't for the "players" there would be no FFVII, sorry but that backfired on your part. Just give up, seriously. Your making me laugh, and making a lot of CloTi's hate you.

I can just imagine watching Jaws and stating that the shark killed Quint then someone coming up and being all like "This doesn't exist. Quint isn't real! It's up to the viewer to decide what happened! I think Quint jumped into the sharks mouth. And you can't prove me wrong because none of this exist!".


Of course the discussion of game mechanics came up. And how they don't have a bearing on the story. The examples of Vincent and Yuffie were given.

Ever hear of a cheat code to where you can have Aerith back in your party even after she dies? I mean if the creators didn't WANT her or NEED her, they wouldn't create such a cheat now would they. Aww poor Vendel, finally losing to your own game? hah, please. Do us all a favor and go play some other games(maybe then you'll see how much Cloud & Aerith are together constantly), go like come other couple, anything! Quit wasting your life on CloTi, cause YOU will never prove anything.

Of course even after being thoroughly shot down on all that AU crap they still bring it up whenever they can.

Someone needs to do a case study on this person.

 

[Fighter]

Yo!

Are you dumb? So in KH while cloud is "looking for someone" "his light" since when is sephiroth cloud's light for one.This leaves aerith as the only alternative as cloud’s light.

Right. Because Nomura never said, "If Sephiroth is darkness, Tifa is light." Oh wait...

 

[Winter]

just because Tifa's his light doesn't mean he's fucking her, or that he wasn't looking for Aeris in KH.

herpa derp

 

[crack]

Of course not, it'd be silly for people to come to the conclusion that Cloud loves Tifa simply because she's his light.

Rather, people claiming that Aerith is his light would be a better reason to which why people are arguing about this in the first place.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Making shit up? All of this shit is made up? Don't you understand that this is a game? dumbass. This all was made up! UNDERSTAND THE WORD "FICTIONAL" or do you need a definition? Your "difficult" one, cause you honestly think this is real life, but in REALITY you NEED a life. Quit making yourself look more and more stupid, your making CloTi's more stupid looking than what they are.

Yes, all of it is made up. But whether you analyze it under SoD or narrative theory, you don't get to ADD to the made up world as you like.

Not up to the players? hah, you also are one of the "players" so fuck you on that part. If it wasn't for the "players" there would be no FFVII, sorry but that backfired on your part. Just give up, seriously. Your making me laugh, and making a lot of CloTi's hate you.

This is a completely irrelevant response. Players CAN'T decide. Now, we CAN decipher what is there, but we do not have the authority to 'decide.'

Ever hear of a cheat code to where you can have Aerith back in your party even after she dies? I mean if the creators didn't WANT her or NEED her, they wouldn't create such a cheat now would they. Aww poor Vendel, finally losing to your own game? hah, please. Do us all a favor and go play some other games(maybe then you'll see how much Cloud & Aerith are together constantly), go like come other couple, anything! Quit wasting your life on CloTi, cause YOU will never prove anything.

But... they DIDN'T create the cheat code. You have to ALTER THE VERY CODE OF THE GAME with an outside device to get it to work. And even then IT STILL BREAKS.

Who was this one, Ven?

LV, He wasn't looking for Aerith in KH. He seems to have known where the crew was the entire time. He was looking for Sephypoo.

 

[Vendel]

Who was this one, Ven?

Amazingly enough the same person from like my last 3-4 post.