The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Fairheartstrife]

Ryu, hon, you have way more patience than I do. Yoshi kind of bores me, actually. Rebuttals to Clerith.com's asshattery have been available for well over several hundred threads. She brings nothing new to the table. It's like gnawing on recycled trash. She's yawn worthy and not really debating.

"It's this way."
"Why?"
"Because I said so."
"That's hardly a valid argument."
"Yeah, well all these other people say so too! So there!"
"You mean those half dozen rabids that distort material and can't read Japanese much less understand context?"
"Hahaha, aliens landed on my forehead and ate mah brainz. Have you read any of the material? HUH?"
"Have you?" **waits**
"Aliens....hahaha...and lol brainwashing..." **avoids question and point**
"So, you do have source citation?"
"This website says it's so."
"But have you read the source material?"
"This website says--"
"You're an idiot."

In other news, Cloti is still canon and Aerith is still dead.

 

[Ryushikaze]

In the Ultimania. All the official relationship pairings are shown. Tidus x Yuna, Zidane x Garnet, Steiner x Beatrix, Squall x Rinoa. And pictures of both Tifa and Aerith.

On reflection, it strikes me that you were not speaking of the relationship charts but the U20's 'For the one I love' page again, though given your jump over to the U10 and your inability to cite your source beyond 'Ultimania', it's more a wonder I parsed this at all than my not parsing it.
In any case, your argument that this page shows all the official pairings AGAIN bites you in the butt. For the sake of argument, discarding the meaning of the text under each page, and taking the pictures alone as proof of official couple status, this validates both potential couples, not neither. While this does not work in canon- Cloud is said to be oblivious of both Aerith and Tifa's intentions at the point shown and possibly up through her death and so C/A could not have had a relationship at the time of the date- it validates C/T as a couple, while C/A is once again rendered an impossibility due to her demise, with Cloud and Tifa confirming their feelings and moving in together as an unchangeable matter of course. And that, of course, is disregarding both the text underneath the pictures and at the top of the heading indicating that the section is showcasing revelations of romance, not 'people who are in love' but 'people publicly expressing that love.' It's why it shows the scene where Sarah confesses to Ingus, Cecil and Rosa's onscreen makeout- pixelated though it is, Locke and Celes finally expressing themselves, and so on. It's why Cid and Hildegarde, Cid and Sierra, Freya and Fratley, Selphie and Irvine, and Wakka and Lulu aren't included on the page. None of them have 'confession' scenes where we get to see the feelings pouring forth.
And that's why the inclusion of Aerith's date really doesn't matter.
Aerith expressing her love to a clueless Cloud confirms nothing.
Cloud and Tifa confirming their feelings of love without words confirms a lot.

And FHS, it keeps me in good mental shape, I guess.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Has anyone bothered showing Yoshi a translation of "For the One That I Love" article?

Since she seems to keep misrepresenting it, maybe she just hasn't seen it.

That about answers it, right there.

 

[Strangelove]

Has anyone bothered showing Yoshi a translation of "For the One That I Love" article?

Since she seems to keep misrepresenting it, maybe she just hasn't seen it.

That about answers it, right there.

What is this strange site you're linking?

TLS is merely one massive Cloti forum and nothing more

 

[Makoeyes987]

Considering they're a fucking couple, it only makes sense they'd depend on each other.

Wow, what a surprise.

Fangirls need to get their heads out of their ass.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Depending on someone else and being worried about them is a wholly different kettle of fish than being dependent upon them or codependent.
Both Cloud and Tifa need each other to bolster the other when they get down. As Cloud is typically the main character, we usually see him getting Bolstered, but CoT shows the support is mutual, with Cloud encouraging Tifa when she doubts and providing comfort as she mourns.

And Mako, I considered it, but concluded she was simply ignoring all the text anyways, so it was kind of irrelevant.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

TLS is merely one massive Cloti forum and nothing more

inorite?

Spoiler

rite

 

[OneWingedDemon]

And pictures of both Tifa and Aerith.

LMAO.
Oh.
Look down.
Under Aeris & Cloud.
It says:
OPTIONAL.
Now look under Tifa.
CANON BITCH. TRY AGAIN

 

[Kobato]

You just do it so poorly that I can't help but assume you are a troll. The alternative is worse.

Posting your opinion on the LTD isn't trolling. But what's the difference when you don't even know the proper definition of trolling.

An Internet troll, or troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages.

You're so far off the definition of a internet troll that it's embarrassing

Pretending to be a neutral and saying, "I don't hate Tifa, I just think she's manipulative and a bad person for not telling Cloud the truth" doesn't make any sense because you are implying that she's a bad person deep down. But that's not the case. Yes she made a mistake, yes she was insecure, but at the heart of all those decisions to keep quiet was the idea that she wanted to keep Cloud safe. Not for Cloud to keep her safe.

Really ? You have never heard people calling Sephiroth a "mama's boy " ? People saying that Aerith is a annoying sank and that she deserved to die, or people calling Cloud a stupid depressive emo boy ? There's much more worse comments out there with FF VII characters, than just finding somebody "manipulative ", really, compare to the other shit that other characters get, finding Tifa manipulative is pretty small.

Just because I don't like her with Cloud, doesn't mean that I dislike Tifa completely.
I find Tifa to be a great fighter, optimistic, and a caring friend. I just don't like her with Cloud, because she didn't say the truth about the past til Cloud was a mentally retarted vegetable on a wheel-chair, and that sounds kind of cruel, she only told him in the Lifestream, when Cloud was struggling with the mako poisoning...

 

[Madame Mayor]

Actually, an internet troll is also described as someone who posts trying to provoke others to respond.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Actually, an internet troll is also described as someone who posts trying to provoke others to respond.

You pretty much described this entire thread......this explains EVERYTHING!

 

[Kobato]

Actually, people are thinking you're a troll because you're acting absurdly, such as continually casting this entire exchange as people being mad at you because 'you don't like C/T' when people have explained themselves already..

People are not happy, because I said that Tifa was manipulative, because she didn't tell Cloud the truth about Nibelheim, til he was desperate and mako-poisoned. I 'insulted' Tifa, that's why people are not happy. And if people feel like I have insulted a favourite character of theirs, then I apologize.

SE does not say the pairings are left up to interpretation. Instead they say things like 'Cloud and Tifa realize their feelings for each other and live together', 'Cloud and Tifa share their matching feelings' 'Tifa is the only person Cloud has ever opened his heart to' and other variations on those themes.

I've been reading Case of Tifa for some hints and things, and it does say that Cloud does smile alot when Tifa is around.

No, your statements are coming from Clerith.com, who are ALSO quite willfully ignorant of the matter. That's an appeal to authority besides.
Your arguments betray that you aren't as familiar with either the material, the meaning of canon, or the nature of conditional statements.

I use Clerith. com because it shows a good side from the C/A side of things, it may of been a little biased. But it all based on opinions, and getting comments from a C/T page would be a little strange. I don't think that Clerith.com is ignorant, is seems to show good support and backup on the Clerith point of view, it just seems to be like you don't like what you are reading, because it's Clerith and not Cloti.

Then provide this actual evidence. Provide a picture and a source where 'the company' has said you have actual choice.

I've shown the Ultimania. A picture of Cloud is shown with Tifa, but Aerith is also shown in "other love " To me other love seems like a choice, why would there be other love ? It's like a spare, or you can make them be together by the date mechanism. Even though Cloud x Tifa seems like the official pairing, you can still have the option of Cloud being with Aerith. See, a choice. You can let the player be with Tifa, or twist things around and make Cloud have a stronger relationship with Aerith.

Let the record be shown that Yoshi is hostile, even to attempts to be civil, and has attempted to evade the point and focus on this 'brainwash' strawman rather than offer up any legitimate self reflection or explanation..

When have the others been civil to me in return ? "Oh you're a troll". Thanks guys.


copy and paste something, that somebody else in this debate has done something civil to me in return, or even maybe nice or kind. You say that I'm being hostile, when I get comments in return like this.

LMAO.
Oh.
Look down.
Under Aeris & Cloud.
It says:
OPTIONAL.
Now look under Tifa.
CANON BITCH. TRY AGAIN
Ryu, hon, you have way more patience than I do. Yoshi kind of bores me, actually. Rebuttals to Clerith.com's asshattery have been available for well over several hundred threads. She brings nothing new to the table. It's like gnawing on recycled trash. She's yawn worthy and not really debating.

"It's this way."
"Why?"
"Because I said so."
"That's hardly a valid argument."
"Yeah, well all these other people say so too! So there!"
"You mean those half dozen rabids that distort material and can't read Japanese much less understand context?"
"Hahaha, aliens landed on my forehead and ate mah brainz. Have you read any of the material? HUH?"
"Have you?" **waits**
"Aliens....hahaha...and lol brainwashing..." **avoids question and point**
"So, you do have source citation?"
"This website says it's so."
"But have you read the source material?"
"This website says--"
"You're an idiot."

Not that I give a shit about comments like this, but really you are supporting things that are not hostile, or civil towards the 'enemy " but when the 'enemy " says something 'hostile' it's all of a sudden, bad, horrible, and wrong.

You aren't posting proof. You're ASSERTING that there is proof, but never going to the step of laying it out. You say SE says that it's optional, but never really where.

Sigh. Look up above.

Seriously, Yoster. You want get us to believe you don't think there's a pairing, then don't cite Clerith.com. Don't fall into all the same traps as all the other people who've insisted there's no official pair to muscle in their own have done.

Wow I wonder what happened to them... did they also get shot down for posting their opinions on the TLD ?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Yoshi, as a Clerith myself let me give you advise for surviving here - formulate your beliefs as sarcastic jokes, that way you can say whatever you wish and no one will care because they think you don't mean it. How do you think I've managed to last this long?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yoshi, as a Clerith myself let me give you advise for surviving here - formulate your beliefs as sarcastic jokes, that way you can say whatever you wish and no one will care because they think you don't mean it. How do you think I've managed to last this long?

 

[Vendel]

you can still have the option of Cloud being with Aerith.

One wonders how.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

It's called necrophilia. I would think you of all people Vendel understood that.

 

[Vendel]

It's called necrophilia. I would think you of all people Vendel understood that.

Kill yourself and find out.

 

[Makoeyes987]

DID SOMEONE SAY NECROPHILIA??!?!?!



If there's one thing I love to do, it's crack open a cold one!

 

[Shademp]

Yoshi, I do not understand how you can deny that Cloti is canon considering the translation of the FF 20th Anniversary article you've already been linked to.
That part of the article is about romantic love and thus the line "he confirms with her that their feelings match" logically implies that the 'feelings' referred to are those of romantic emotions.
The love between Cloud and Tifa is mutual. I know of no official source that establishes mutual love between Cloud and Aerith.

When you play the game, many options are open for you. But that doesn't change the canon timeline and events, established by the official sources. If you claim that Cloti is not canon, then I have no choice but to conclude that you are illogically denying the FF 20th Anniversary article.

For this same reason we disrespect clerith.com. It starts with the sentence " and *evidence* will be provided to show that Cloud and Aerith are the true and intended couple of the game."
The site thus ignores that no sufficient evidence exists to show that Cloud and Aerith love each other. Even if there were evidence for mutual love between the two, we still have the evidence for Cloti and so any evidence for Clerith would mean that BOTH are true. In that scenario both sides would win (or neither would win, depending on how you perceive it).

You are allowed to like the *idea* of Clerith. We have a club for it.
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=900
Just don't claim that Clerith is canon OR that neither pairing is canon, unless you have sufficient evidence to back it up.

 

[Vendel]

BTW I have been seeing this float around recently. But since when did SE officially declare the C/A date scene canon?

Is this in the super secret official materials that only the pinkers seem to have possession of?

 

[Madame Mayor]

BTW I have been seeing this float around recently. But since when did SE officially declare the C/A date scene canon?

Is this in the super secret official materials that only the pinkers seem to have possession of?

Nah, it's just that old assumption because Aerith's initial score is higher, and they like to forget that before you meet Aerith, Tifa's can go above her starting so it makes sense it's to put them on a level playing field.

Yes, Aerith date makes sense... though the thought just occurred to me now that her death might seem ever more tragic if they didn't go on their promised date.

 

[Shadowfox]

I don't doubt that some would take the picture of Cloud and Aerith's date in the 20th Anniversary Ultimania to mean that their date is canon.

 

[Strangelove]

The picture appears in several books IIRC, so I guess people take that as meaning it's the canon one.

DID SOMEONE SAY NECROPHILIA??!?!?!



If there's one thing I love to do, it's crack open a cold one!

Are you taking Drake's 'make sarcastic jokes to hide your true beliefs' advice?

 

[Zee]

The date is usually considered canon since it's the default (labeled so in the Official Strategy Guide) and fits in the best with the plot.

 

[Vendel]

The date is usually considered canon since it's the default (labeled so in the Official Strategy Guide) and fits in the best with the plot.

I don't care about game mechanics. Where has SE shown that the date is official?

And fits the best with the plot?