The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Raidou]

I am a complete idiot
Because I denied the death of my dog

 

[Makoeyes987]

Aerith felt Zack's death in Crisis Core, but in FFVII says she doesn't know what happened to him.

How is that not denial?

 

[Tifabelle]

oh come on, the "aerith is in serious denial and is making excuses" theory reeks of bullshit, not only because it's vastly out of character for her, but also because her "denial" spans so much of the compilation that it stops making SENSE.

I've never bought it. Do I need to copy and paste old posts of mine? BECAUSE I WILL

lazy

No one said any of the things you put in quotes.

 

[Winter]

She's uh, lying? She doesn't want to talk about it. You can't hear the inflection in her voice when she says it, I've never seen it as her "denying" his death so much as she's brushing it off because it's not something she wants to talk about.

regardless her whole "feeling zack's death" is a technically a retcon anyways so

there's that

 

[ForceStealer]

She denied being an Ancient when she was 14

 

[null]

Aerith felt Zack's death in Crisis Core, but in FFVII says she doesn't know what happened to him.

How is that not denial?

Does she actually know he died - i.e. ripping off Star Wars - or did she get a funny feeling at about that time? (I seriously don't know, I refuse to play the game)

 

[Winter]

Because she didn't want to be taken into Hojo's lab again.

apparently Aerith is just incapable of lying, she's always in ~denial~

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's still an indication of denial, which in turn leads one to assume Aerith still feels something regarding his death. If its too painful for her to want to talk about or acknowledge then that again leads to us to the same conclusion. They wouldn't have added the element of her emotionally and spiritually feeling Zack's death for nothing.

Does she actually know he died - i.e. ripping off Star Wars - or did she get a funny feeling at about that time? (I seriously don't know, I refuse to play the game)

I don't think she knows the precise way he died, but she becomes noticeably jolted and upset looking as Zack takes his final bullet.

 

[ForceStealer]

She volunteered the information about her first boyfriend to Cloud, why then lie about it? Actually, I always thought it was stupid of her to not tell his parents about him. She may not have any answers for them but, I dunno...I still think she should have told them.

AND if she knew he was dead she absolutely should have told them.

 

[Tifabelle]

She volunteered the information about her first boyfriend to Cloud, why then lie about it? Actually, I always thought it was stupid of her to not tell his parents about him. She may not have any answers for them but, I dunno...I still think she should have told them.

AND if she knew he was dead she absolutely should have told them.

Which would lead to believe one of two things: A. she's in denial or B. she's not entirely sure. But then end of CC makes it seem pretty certain that she became aware of his death.

 

[Winter]

Just because she doesn't want to talk about it doesn't mean she's still hung up on it. And they added that scene with her and Zack because it fit right in with the rest of the corny, over-the-top scenes in CC.

no seriously though, she can sense any old average person she's never met dying. Of COURSE she can sense Zack dying.

again though, retconning

 

[Winter]

No one said any of the things you put in quotes.

I was paraphrasing hundreds of pages of LTD debates.

 

[ForceStealer]

Personally I always assumed she wasn't sure (partly because that makes her a real bitch for not telling his parents if she knew), and when first watching CC's ending I just assumed she felt "something." But I know she sensed Elmyra's husband dying so she would have had to...but that's a lot of peopel for her to constantly be aware of dying. We sure it's not just because Elmyra's husband's soul was intentionally moving towards her? (after all, thanks to CC's cheese we know for a fact Zack's soul didn't make a move towards her )

 

[null]

Ok now I'm picturing Aerith with a lightsaber. Maybe I should try to play CC.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Just because she doesn't want to talk about it doesn't mean she's still hung up on it. And they added that scene with her and Zack because it fit right in with the rest of the corny, over-the-top scenes in CC.

Bringing up the conversation, and then purposefully lying about what she knew about Zack's fate, doesn't indicate a hang up at all? Why then would she not tell the truth, or tell Zack's parents?

Corny or not, that's the way the writers presented the story. So you can't just dismiss that fact or whatever.

 

[Tifabelle]

no seriously though, she can sense any old average person she's never met dying. Of COURSE she can sense Zack dying.

again though, retconning

So let's look at Elmyra's husband and Zack. Elmyra's husband she has no problem admitting his death and that he goes back to the lifestream. However with Zack, she rationalizes that he met another girl. See the difference?

And I don't see the problem with retconning.

 

[null]

Bringing up the conversation, and then purposefully lying about what she knew about Zack's fate, doesn't indicate a hang up at all? Why then would she not tell the truth, or tell Zack's parents?

Corny or not, that's the way the writers presented the story. So you can't just dismiss that fact or whatever.

I think we might be overanalyzing it. I don't think, when they wrote the end of CC, they worried about how it affected the interpretation of one line of dialogue in FF7.

 

[Winter]

She volunteered the information about her first boyfriend to Cloud, why then lie about it? Actually, I always thought it was stupid of her to not tell his parents about him. She may not have any answers for them but, I dunno...I still think she should have told them.

AND if she knew he was dead she absolutely should have told them.

that is actually a good point. I really did always get the vibe that she was lying in the original game, but I'll have to replay that part (or find it online lolz).

regardless, why does this matter? she said she loved cloud

cloti is still canon

and the writing in CC sucked

stop fretting, everyone

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think we might be overanalyzing it. I don't think, when they wrote the end of CC, they worried about how it affected the interpretation of one line of dialogue in FF7.

Oh that's bullshit. They talk about the meeting with Zack's parents and its implications in FFVII in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania in Zack's profile. They didn't forget about Aerith's dialogue or the implication.

There's a reason why they decided to put focus on Aerith sensing Zack's death and her reacting accordingly.

 

[ForceStealer]

What? Were we talking about the LTD? Damn. I was only interested because it wasn't...

 

[Winter]

ForceStealer, all discussion in here goes back to proving how awesome and righteous C/T is and how Aerith is obsessed, like, crazy obsessed, with Zack

Nothing else.

I'm sorry we deceived you into thinking this was normal discussion.

 

[Splintered]

I never understood the vehement disagreement of fellow Cloud/Tifa fans that Aerith never really loved Cloud. It says so right in Case of Lifestream, she loved him unconditionally despite how odd things were when it started out. It doesn't cheapen in any sort of way, Aerith's love for Zack either. Or their relationship.

And tbh, I'm not sure how much I buy the "if Yuffie died things would be the same" thing either. I'm not saying Cloud would be entirely distraught, but there was always a relationship there, romantic of otherwise, that continued throughout the compilation. And there's a definite narrative element and the whole idea of fate, right down to the end of the CC where Zack tells Cloud to take care of Aerith. Plus a whole slew of comments about Cloud and Aerith that give light to how strong that relationship is.

To me, it's like people are so tired of everything special about the relationship being painted as romantic that they overcompensate to the point that people pretend that there's nothing special about the relationship at all.

So now when people go, "OMG, Cloud is in a field of flowers, twoo luv*~*~" the other side is going, "Meh. They weren't that close anyways." These are both purposeful exaggerations. You don't combat analytic dishonesty with even more analytic dishonesty.

Herp

 

[null]

Oh that's bullshit. They talk about the meeting with Zack's parents and its implications in FFVII in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania in Zack's profile. They didn't forget about Aerith's dialogue or the implication.

There's a reason why they decided to put focus on Aerith sensing Zack's death and her reacting accordingly.

Color me pwned.

 

[ForceStealer]

But...but...Cloud wasn't even mentioned that whole time

But I, at least, don't think Aeris is obsessed with Zack, but having your first love just up and vanish and never talk to you again can't feel great. Even if she COULD sense his death, that was 5 years later, she should be pissed at him

 

[Winter]

yeah, what splintered said.

debating the minuscule details of Aerith's conversations with people in the game really won't get us anywhere, considering it's already canon that she loves Cloud and we've done this A BILLION TIMES