The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Ryushikaze]

I don't think she ever "refused" her role so much as she wanted to live a normal life while she could. Christ, she lived in a laboratory for 7 years give or take, she didn't want to go back to that. It doesn't mean she didn't want to be a Cetra, she just knew that Midgar was dangerous territory.

Wanting to live the normal life is the refusal. It might technically be a deferral of it, but the plot arc is 'No, I want normal, and avoid ShinRa. Now I'm involved. What do I want to do? No, wait, what do I HAVE to do? Let's go do that then'

I'm not sure if I remember FFVII saying anything about her 'hearing' waning.

Being secretive is different from lying, and not telling Zack's parents is a pretty dick move under most circumstances. It's a lot less of a dick move if she herself can't face his demise. Her reaction is too extreme not to care, and her not telling Zack's parents is too dickish if she does care. The 'doesn't want to admit it' tack is a reasonable medium between the two extremes.

 

[Winter]

Yeah, she doesn't wear pink in every game. The only game she wears pink is FFVII.

bullshit, there's pink in her BC and CC outfits before she met Zack.

 

[ForceStealer]

lol CC has shit writing

Apart from the cheesy ending, and maybe Genesis, I don't really know what was so bad about CC's writing...

But I don't like you using that excuse for her not telling Zack's parents in the original FF7. Because that means whatever character trait you are basing your opinion on that clashes with that was ALSO established with shit writing, meaning that could just as very well be wrong. She either isn't sure, and doesn't want to be sure (which is different from denial!), and so didn't want to give his parents false hope, or she knows and is a bitch. Those are the only options. Unless there was a different writer that wrote that specific scene in FF7, you can't call shit writing but then trust whatever part of the writing tells you she isn't a bitch.

Incidentally, Zack trying to see his parents is probably the most heartbreaking scene in CC, especially with knowledge of FF7

 

[null]

She's in denial about pink too.

 

[Ryushikaze]

How the hell is she waiting for Zack if she knows he's dead???

If she doesn't want to admit it. The grieving process can manifest in many different ways. Still wearing the pink to wait for him reminds me of parents of dead children who still go through old habits, or in more extreme cases, expect their children to come home again.

 

[Raidou]

I was told that the script JP
In Zack's house. Aerith says only "sonna" ... is this true?

 

[Makoeyes987]

bullshit, there's pink in her BC and CC outfits before she met Zack.

That's not wearing pink. The most pink she has is the ribbon in her hair. Which Zack gave her.

Or are you seriously gonna say the bit under her dress counts as wearing pink, cause if it did, then why would Zack ask her to wear pink, if she's already wearing it?

 

[Celes Chere]

Her CC outfit does have pink on the underpart of her dress, and on her shoes... but full out pink is what Zack asked for. If wearing mostly blue with pink undertones was considered as "wearing pink", then Zack wouldn't have said, "Next time, you should wear pink. " Lol. She started wearing that after he left... Um, that's a big hint. Dude, that's not even a hint! That is flat out tugging at your heartstrings. xD

 

[ForceStealer]

Eh...I don't know if she's that far gone, Ryu...maybe she just wears it in remembrance like AVALANCHE wears ribbons in AC, or as winter said, maybe she just likes it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

bullshit, there's pink in her BC and CC outfits before she met Zack.

Aerith's BC appearance happens after the Nibelheim incident. No go, there.

Her Bra, I assume, is what you refer to in Crisis Core, which is Red to my eyes. Unless you mean the ribbon, which is its own kettle of fish.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Eh...I don't know if she's that far gone, Ryu...maybe she just wears it in remembrance like AVALANCHE wears ribbons in AC, or as winter said, maybe she just likes it.

No shit. Aerith isn't stupid. The point is, is she's carrying an obvious relationship torch because she still hasn't let go of Zack.

 

[Winter]

Apart from the cheesy ending, and maybe Genesis, I don't really know what was so bad about CC's writing...

But I don't like you using that excuse for her not telling Zack's parents in the original FF7. Because that means whatever character trait you are basing your opinion on that clashes with that was ALSO established with shit writing, meaning that could just as very well be wrong. She either isn't sure, and doesn't want to be sure (which is different from denial!), and so didn't want to give his parents false hope, or she knows and is a bitch. Those are the only options. Unless there was a different writer that wrote that specific scene in FF7, you can't call shit writing but then trust whatever part of the writing tells you she isn't a bitch.

Incidentally, Zack trying to see his parents is probably the most heartbreaking scene in CC, especially with knowledge of FF7

To be honest, I only watched Genesis scenes (out of curiosity, I regret it now trust me, he is a corny motherfucker) and the scenes with Aerith and Zack, which are also pretty ehhhh to me.

I think either she legitimately wasn't sure, or she didn't say simply because, let's face it, that would ruin later spoiler parts of the game. Knowing that Shinra gunned down Zack would have fucked shit up for Cloud and would have messed with the chronology of the story.

I mean, she could have just been hurting and not said anything. But if that is the case (idk how I feel about this theory, since I have been vehemently against it for a while) I really don't think it's because she's still in love with him and hung up on the fact that she wanted to marry him and have 10 kids and a picket white fence. If she's hurting it's because he's dead and she's not sure enough/hurts too much to tell his parents.

I think either way it's a bad exclusion, Aerith really should have just told his parents. now this is bothering me

 

[Raidou]

"The pink ribbon given to Aerith in Scene 04-09 as a ‘one day anniversary gift’. In “FFVII” and “BC” she wears the White Materia, a memento of her mother, with this ribbon. And in “AC”, those who fought with Aerith in the Jenova War and Barret’s daughter Marlene had a pink ribbon somewhere on their bodies so they wouldn’t forget her".

 

[Ryushikaze]

Eh...I don't know if she's that far gone, Ryu...maybe she just wears it in remembrance like AVALANCHE wears ribbons in AC, or as winter said, maybe she just likes it.

Oh, no, I'm not saying 'She believes he's coming back.' More 'Wearing the Pink, keeping the habit, that makes it easier to deal with, helps her push it out of her head until she's ready.'

 

[Makoeyes987]

The fact is, Aerith is carrying something for Zack. Her behavior and actions make that undeniable. You don't go carrying on your dead boyfriend's last wishes and hopes as if he were still alive, and refuse to say anything about his death, even to his own parents.

That's pointing to something. Something very emotionally powerful.

That's not moving on.

 

[null]

If she doesn't want to admit it. The grieving process can manifest in many different ways. Still wearing the pink to wait for him reminds me of parents of dead children who still go through old habits, or in more extreme cases, expect their children to come home again.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy using complex pop psychology to explain away

A) Aerith saying point blank she loves Cloud
B) Aerith saying she initially saw Zack in Cloud but now it's different

I don't get it. If they paid attention to the implications of Aerith not mentioning Zack's death to his parents, then why not assume they fully understand the implications of Aerith addressing Cloud as her new koibito when they wrote CoLW? Is there some point made in the commentary stating Aerith's delusion?

 

[ForceStealer]

OT, I was kinda sad that they had gotten rid of the ribbons in Dirge. I know they're supposed to be "over her" or whatever. But why can't you remember and be over? (AND protect yourself from status ailments!)

I think it would've been cool if Vincent was still wearing the ribbon. NOT because of anything %*#$ing romantic, just because I thought it was cool for Vincent to wear one in AC, for how standoffish he is. And I enjoy interactions or mentions between characters that rarely do so.
Also, I was REALLY hoping Vincent would mention her in some way when Shelke asks why Shalua would have sacrificed herself for someone else. But...alas

 

[Splintered]

I'm not arguing she didn't have feelings for Cloud and all that. Good for her.

But I wanna know how this equates to her moving on from Zack, and being ready for Cloud when Zack is still very much alive in her heart. Actions speak louder than words here. She's waiting for Zack in the most obvious way imaginable.

You don't stop loving someone when you are moving on.


Anyway she initially was attracted to Cloud because of Zack. But she fell in love for Cloud because, well, she loved Cloud.

It is just my personal opinion, I found that Zack/Aerith was much better written (despite being the poorer of the games), and I felt a stronger emotional pull between the two. I felt the impact they had on each other was much more meaningful and, well, substantive.

Everything that happens in CC shows that she does still love him. But that does not mean she did not try to move on.

Hell, even if you look at Aerith's character for a purely character pov, without any romance, she was moving on.

She moved on from waiting for Zack to finding new love. She moved on from her mom and moved on from her homes in the slums. This is the kind of woman Aerith was, her only drive didn't come from ~the power of love. Aerith was actively searching for a better life and wanted to live in the present.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Goddamnit, no one said she didn't love Cloud. That's not being stated by everyone. No one's saying Aerith's cuckoo for coco puffs.

But she hasn't moved on from Zack. Zack is still VERY much alive in her heart. Zack is who she's always been waiting for, and maybe she felt that she'd like to try and move on with Cloud.

BUT HEY GUESS WHAT. IT NEVER HAPPENED. CAUSE SHE DIED.

Cloud and Aerith's budding relationship was cut short and interrupted thanks to Sephiroth.

Why else does Nojima talk about Cloud and Aerith in hypothetical statements. It never fully happened.

But you know what did fully happen? Zack and Aerith.

You don't stop loving someone when you are moving on.

She never moved on, Splintered. How is any of that indicative of a woman who's moved on and is ready to start a new, healthy, and full relationship?

Maybe she was trying to. But she didn't. Two weeks on the road with a guy trying to save the world isn't really much time to get up and move on.

 

[null]

The fact is, Aerith is carrying something for Zack. Her behavior and actions make that undeniable. You don't go carrying on your dead boyfriend's last wishes and hopes as if he were still alive, and refuse to say anything about his death, even to his own parents.

That's pointing to something. Something very emotionally powerful.

That's not moving on.

The moving on point is when she states the difference between Cloud and Zack on the date. Does she need an immediate wardrobe change to break with the past?

 

[Celes Chere]

and the scenes with Aerith and Zack, which are also pretty ehhhh to me.

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN. THEIR STORY OF LOVE AND DEATH IS TRAGIC FFFFUUUUU.

THE END HAD ME SOBBING. HIS LAST MEMORIES ARE OF HER. THE LAST DMW SEQUENCE IS OF HER. HE DIES TRYING TO SEE HER AGAIN. AERITH TELLS ZACK THAT HER LIFE IS GOING SO WELL THANKS TO HIM. WHAT DID CLOUD AND AERITH EVER DO THAT WAS SO MEMORABLE HUH? WOW, THEY HAD A FEW QUOTES, ZACK AND AERITH HAVE LIKE AN ETERNITY OF QUOTES AND PROOFS, BUT ONE SLIGHTLY CXA QUOTE IS ENOUGH TO ERASE THEM ALL.

^Imagine an angry Hitler shouting this.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm sorry, I just don't buy using complex pop psychology to explain away

A) Aerith saying point blank she loves Cloud
B) Aerith saying she initially saw Zack in Cloud but now it's different

I don't get it. If they paid attention to the implications of Aerith not mentioning Zack's death to his parents, then why not assume they fully understand the implications of Aerith addressing Cloud as her new koibito when they wrote CoLW? Is there some point made in the commentary stating Aerith's delusion?

Aerith can love Cloud and Zack both.
I don't think she stopped loving Zack even as she began loving Cloud.
I think eventually she realized her love for Cloud was being influenced by her love for Zack- which again, we've been told 'this is so' about.
I think she still loved Chocobutt, even though she didn't actually know his ass.

I'm not denying the love for Cloud. I'm just saying it's goddamn complicated.

 

[null]

Fair enough. Now if we can get Mako's obstinate smooth criminal ass on board.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The moving on point is when she states the difference between Cloud and Zack on the date. Does she need an immediate wardrobe change to break with the past?

Wow, so her stating the obvious and saying she wants to "meet you" means she's over Zack?

Well she's made of some pretty tough stuff. Especially considering she goes on to clam up and not even come clean about her dead boyfriend's death.

Yeah. That's real healthy. Movin' on strong, right?

 

[Raidou]

The moving on point is when she states the difference between Cloud and Zack on the date. Does she need an immediate wardrobe change to break with the past?

For me it also seems an admission that Zack died
but maybe it's just me.