The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

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I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
That said, everyone is doing this pairing name thing all wrong. Ce/Ro is Cesa. or CeRo to use the Japanese method.

NUH-UH! We know exactly what we're doing, sir! :wacky:

Hmmm....guess I really need to get back to reading the Ultamanium and such, again. I remember clearly that there was more Clerith evidence then Cloti. But I could be wrong, too. [/shrugs] It's been a long time. [/nods]

[/goes off to gather information]

We can finally have a real debate after you gather your info! :monster:

We've been making up our own LTs before :awesome:

We know that Cloud has opened his heart only to Tifa. And that is simply off the top of my head.

The evidence for C/A is not so concrete.

Tis true, that. :awesomonster: Even a n00b like me knows that.
 

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
Except in KH where Clorith is so canon it hurts. Until you get to KHII and Tifa butts in all "ZOMG CLOD HAF MAI LITE" I'm sorry, that's always just bugged the fuck out of me. :wacky:

I wonder what KHIII holds for our beloved FF characters.

Other than that the last 4 pages have turned around so much I dunno where to start. :monster:

Clorith ftw. <3
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Except in KH where Clorith is so canon it hurts.

Oh yes. Two seconds of a woman looking at a disinterested male who was looking for another guy in the first place= TWU WUB!

Until you get to KHII and Tifa butts in all "ZOMG CLOD HAF MAI LITE" I'm sorry, that's always just bugged the fuck out of me. :wacky:

How dare she fulfill her role as the embodiment of his light. I mean how DARE she?

I wonder what KHIII holds for our beloved FF characters.

Diddly, presumably. It's a prequel. And prequels don't count :monster: Seriously, at most, we'll probably come to understand the source of the KHverse Cloud v Sephy fight.

Other than that the last 4 pages have turned around so much I dunno where to start. :monster:

First principles. Always start with first principles.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
I still meant no offense. :monster:

I'm thinking I'm becoming more and more trollish as time passes. I must control myself. :aah:
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
Does that mean I'm right? :awesome:

So with Tifa absent, KH is Clerith-canon? I mean, really...? o_O
 

Aerith Gainsborough

The Slum's Flower Girl
AKA
Rini Mazaki
Hahahaha.
Yup. This debate is just like the last 500 debates that I've seen.
Guess I need to start pointing out a few things, as well.
Let's get started, hm?

The Lifestream Event reveals that Cloud and Tifa did not know one another well as children, which means that Cloud and Tifa were actually just getting to know one another at the beginning of the game. As children, Tifa had a separate group of friends, a three-some, who would not allow Cloud into the group. Cloud only used to look up at Tifa’s window from outside.

After Tifa’s accident at the bridge in the mountains, Cloud felt that she blamed him and hated him for what happened, which implies that they were estranged even further. Cloud wouldn’t feel that Tifa blamed him and hated him if their relationship was close. Tifa even mentions that Cloud’s invitation to meet him at the well surprised her because it was so sudden, which implies that they spent little time together. The fact that they weren’t close as children is clearly indicated in the following dialogue from the Lifestream event:

Young Cloud "Tifa... did you forget... about those days?"
Tifa "Look... I..."
Tifa "I'm sorry... But what are you talking about?"
Young Cloud "No... it's all right. You were having a hard time back then."
Young Cloud "You were so busy with your own things, it's only natural you don't remember me back then."
Tifa "'Back then'?"

Tifa "My room?"
Young Cloud "It was my first time there."
Tifa "Was... it?"
Young Cloud "I only used to look up at it from outside."

Tifa "Was that the first day you came into my room?"
Tifa "...that's right. We lived next to each other. But I really didn't know you that well."
Tifa "I've known you since we were children and I always thought we were close..."
Tifa "Now that you mention it... I don't recall you ever being in my room..."

Young Cloud "Tifa always used to be with this three-some."
Tifa "...That's right."
Young Cloud "You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing."
Tifa "But we were children, back then."
Young Cloud "...I know. I'm the one that was stupid. I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group."

Young Cloud "Then later... I began to think I was different... That I was different from those immature kids."
Young Cloud "That then... maybe..."
(A double of the adult Cloud stands, and then it speaks.)
"Just maybe, they would invite me in."
"I thought that might happen, so I hung around..."

(The double speaks again.)
"That night I called Tifa out to the well... I thought to myself Tifa would never come, that she hated me."
Tifa "Yeah... it was so sudden. I was... a bit surprised."
(She turns to face Young Cloud.)
Tifa "But... It's true that we weren't THAT close, but..."

From these passages in the Lifestream event, it’s obvious that Cloud and Tifa were not close as children. Tifa even says, “We lived next to each other. But I really didn't know you that well." This passage from the Lifestream event conclusively shows that Tifa and Cloud were not even close friends as children, and that Cloud only had a crush on her from afar. Therefore, Cloud’s past feelings for Tifa were not based on an actual relationship with her.

It's true that Cloud decided to join SOLDIER to impress Tifa, as well. But don't forget that Cloud idolize Sephiroth and wanted to be a hero, too. And besides, the promise at the well was made because Tifa requested it. And now we know that Tifa NEVER knew Cloud as kids except to be the boy that would "hang around".

Let's look at the well scene where the promise was made.

Now a full analysis, with all the evidence will be brought to directly contrast the first analysis to demonstrate that The Well Scene in actuality is completely different from what it appears to be.

Tifa "Look, the well."
Tifa "Do you remember?"
(Cloud nods.)
Cloud "Yeah... back then."
Cloud "I thought you would never come, and I was getting a little cold."

As stated before, the implications of this are tremendous and hidden in subterfuge. However, once Cloud and Tifa realize their mutual distance as children in the Lifestream Event, as shown in Part 4, a very different picture of the scene is presented. Cloud has already revealed that he thought Tifa would never come, but he gives a further elaboration of this in the Lifestream Event:

Cloud "That night I called Tifa out to the well..."
Cloud "I thought to myself Tifa would never come, that she hated me."

This is obviously not a statement made by a close childhood friend, and gives potent insight into the true manner of the relationship between Cloud and Tifa. The analysis continues:


(The scene changes. Cloud and Tifa, as children, appear. Cloud is sitting swinging his legs on the well cover. Tifa enters from offscreen.)
Tifa "Sorry I'm late."

We chalked up Tifa's lateness to a number of potential reasons before, but now it is shown that she was completely taken aback by Cloud's request to see her at the well, and was most reluctant to go, saying as much in the Lifestream afterwards.

(She sits down.)
Tifa "You said you wanted to talk to me about something?"
Cloud "Come this spring... I'm leaving this town for Midgar."

Previously, we could not readily conclude why Cloud wanted to leave his town. Now, with the new information, we can.

Tifa "...All the boys are leaving town."

Tifa's statement now in light of her reluctance and detachment from Cloud Strife is much more poignant. Rather than being a simple wistful line, it is instead an insult of sorts to Cloud. All the boys are leaving the town, including Cloud. There's nothing special about why he's leaving to find a job and live his life, and no reason why she should care at all.

Cloud "But I'm different from all of them. I'm not just going to find a job."

Cloud in turn has obviously realized this fact, and has also realized that in order for Tifa to care about him or notice him at all, he must take on a task of epic proportions.

(He stands.)
Cloud "I want to join SOLDIER."
Cloud "I'm going to be the best there is, just like Sephiroth."

And Cloud's impossible dream is just the thing to pique Tifa's interest. After all, the SOLDIER is the epitome of strength and fortitude, and Cloud himself says this of his decision in the Lifestream Event:

Cloud "If I could just get stronger... Then even Tifa would have to notice me..."

However, further analysis demands insight into Tifa's reactions and responses. We continue:

Tifa "Will you be in the newspapers if you do well?"

It is now that Tifa shows the first bit of interest in Cloud that night - nay, we may conclude, perhaps even in his entire life - right after he tells her he is going to join SOLDIER. This is a very suspicious action to say the least, but not yet conclusive - so we must gauge more reactions.

Tifa "Hey, why don't we make a promise?"

Of course, a perfect measure of reactions is her key response - the suggestion of 'The Promise'.

Tifa "Umm, if you get really famous and I'm ever in a bind..."
Tifa "You come save me, all right?"

Now, notice that Tifa has no incentive to ask Cloud this promise based on their prior relationship - if it was based on her amiability with him, she would have rather asked this of her friends than him. Her true intentions of asking this are laid within the promise itself: … if you get really famous… This is based on Cloud getting fame and prestige as a requisite for saving her! Coupled with her keen interest in him revolving around newspapers, it is HIGHLY suggestive that her interest in him is fueled primarily by his wish to join SOLDIER. A final analysis will help us ascertain the final conclusion. The reiteration of the promise.

Tifa "Whenever I’m in trouble, my hero will come and rescue me."
Tifa "I want to at least experience that once."

It is evident from here that Tifa didn't necessarily want Cloud - she wanted a hero. Cloud attempted to truss himself up to impossible expectations, and she took to them immediately, starstruck as any other child. But while children can be enamored with Rock Stars and Pop Idols, their feelings for them, no matter how strong, are baseless. Baseless feelings cannot perpetuate actual love, no matter what the individual definition.

The multiple variances of the vague occurrence are still bound by truth, and while Tifa may have developed feelings for a hero of Cloud that she concocted, the true Cloud she was emotionless to. And Cloud, in turn, never knew the true Tifa. Completely isolated from her as a child, and attracted to her solely because of looks, his feelings for her are as meaningful as love for a statue. He does not know her feelings for him, evident from his own previous admissions.

The final analysis of The Well Scene is a stark contrast. It is so because it is intended as shock factor from the creators of the game, enhancing the factor that Cloud was never a member of SOLDIER to begin with, and subsequently never Tifa's imagined hero. The final representations are as follows:

1. Cloud and Tifa were NOT close as children.
2. The promise between Tifa and Cloud was made because Tifa wanted a powerful and famous hero.
3. Any romanticism in The Well Scene is founded on baseless feelings and false assumptions by the two participants, and is discredited.

It is a clear fact that even the most staunch supporter of a Cloud/Tifa relationship must admit: at the time the Promise was made, Cloud and Tifa had no feelings of consequence for each other

Oh and one more thing. Cloud doesn't ONLY listen to Tifa, he also listens to Aerith. Whose idea was for Cloud to cross-dress, so he could save Tifa - Aerith. If it weren't for that suggestion then Cloud would have had more trouble saving her from Don Corneo.

Now about the koibito comment. I think a lot of fans misread it because koibito means a lot of things in the japanese language.

Koi bito (that's right, it is actually two words): Koi= romantic love; bito= person (slang for hito). Koi bito, written in katakana or hiragana can have various definitions, such as "sweetheart", "lover", or "boyfriend/girlfriend" (its meaning can be confusing when written this way). However, koi bito written in kanji (as it is in Reunion Files), is simply "the person who loves" and offers no answers on whether or not this person's feelings are returned. In other words, Tifa embodies the traits of "a person who loves", and nothing more. It says nothing about any type of reciprocated feelings from anyone. Resha also stated that, if Cloud and Tifa were in a romantic relationship, Tifa would more than likely be called aikoi or aikou.

Koi bito, according to Resha, Saicho, and Shadow Spirit, is one of the most overused Japanese words with non-Japanese anime/manga fans. They take the meaning to simply be "girlfriend/boyfriend", which isn't always the case. As previously stated, koi bito can be spelled out with either katakana/hiragana or kanji. When kanji is used, the meaning is "the one who does the loving", but it is unknown if that person's love is returned.

While koi bito in kanji has been known to be used for the word "sweetheart", it is extremely rare. Native Japanese inhabitants just do not use koi bito written in kanji for the word "sweetheart", only non-Japanese and/or die-hard anime/manga fans. Koi bito= lover, as in "someone who loves" (as in “cat lover” or “dog lover”), not "_____'s lover". It isn't used to imply reciprocated feelings.

Last time I checked, the Reunion Files were written in kanji, and koi bito in kanji has a different meaning from hiragana and katakana.

Plus, I was sure Normura was talking about Tifa's CHARACTER; PERSONALITY; TRAITS. You do know what traits means, right? Well let me give a definition of it.
"the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing"

"the combination of qualities or features that distinguishes one person, group, or thing from another"

"one of the attributes or features that make up and distinguish an individual"

None of the definitions for "character" mention roles... period. Tifa is "like a mother, a sweetheart, and a close ally in battle" in that she embodies traits that one might find in a mother, a sweetheart, or a close ally in battle. These qualities are what distinguish Tifa from other characters and are the dimensions that Nomura wished to portray when creating AC Tifa. Nomura was making a general statement about Tifa's character (that is, her qualities). If someone is making this statement out to be more than that, then they are ignoring the words of Nomura himself.

Oh and one more thing. How could Cloud open up to Aerith if he had amnesia? How is a person suppose to talk about themselves when they don't remember much about themselve and have a new persona mixed with their memories? It would be impossible to, no? But Aerith knew that Cloud wasn't being himself but hiding behind a mask and we can find that proof in the date of the Golden Sauser where she says, "I want to meet the real you." Also, Cloud has shown of signs of interest in Aerith. At the Gongaga scene where Aerith finds out about Zack's death from his parents. She runs out of the house and Cloud worries about her. If you get him to follow her, he talks to her and figures out that she was Zack's girlfriend. One of the responses that you can give is "...jealous." So Cloud WAS jealous about Aerith and Zack's relationship. Also, the part where Aerith was kidnapped, Marlene tells Cloud that Aerith was asking a lot of questions about him and she points out, "She likes you." You ALSO have the choice to pick, "I hope so." At the part where Aerith figures out that she's the only Cetra left, Cloud comforts her and says, "But I-....we're here for you." Orginally Cloud wanted to say "I", but decided against it and used "we" quickly. Why would he do that? This proves that he does have feelings for her that are more than just friends.

Oh and the novella "On a Way to a Smile". Remember the part that Cloud finds Denzel in the church and takes him back to the bar. Tifa asks about the kid and Cloud says, "Aerith brought him to me." Why would Cloud say that? Wouldn't it be normal yo say, "Aerith brought him to us." IF Cloud and Tifa were really a couple. That just proves that Cloud and Tifa are just friends. Oh and by the way, Barret is also part of that family, too. So it isn't just Cloud, Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene. We just don't see him because he travels around the world looking for oil or what not.

Phew. Most of the information I found at that devotion website. [/forgot the name] So I give them full credit for writing the essays.

Now I wait for the debate to begin. [/has more cards up her sleeve]
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
THE DEBATE BEGINS! :reptar:

Someone answer her. LOL I can't, because I'm a n00b FF7 fan, and I'm too lazy to read all that. :awesome:

No offense, AG. :monster:

BUT!!!

Koi bito (that's right, it is actually two words): Koi= romantic love; bito= person (slang for hito). Koi bito, written in katakana or hiragana can have various definitions, such as "sweetheart", "lover", or "boyfriend/girlfriend" (its meaning can be confusing when written this way). However, koi bito written in kanji (as it is in Reunion Files), is simply "the person who loves" and offers no answers on whether or not this person's feelings are returned. In other words, Tifa embodies the traits of "a person who loves", and nothing more. It says nothing about any type of reciprocated feelings from anyone. Resha also stated that, if Cloud and Tifa were in a romantic relationship, Tifa would more than likely be called aikoi or aikou.

Koi bito, according to Resha, Saicho, and Shadow Spirit, is one of the most overused Japanese words with non-Japanese anime/manga fans. They take the meaning to simply be "girlfriend/boyfriend", which isn't always the case. As previously stated, koi bito can be spelled out with either katakana/hiragana or kanji. When kanji is used, the meaning is "the one who does the loving", but it is unknown if that person's love is returned.

While koi bito in kanji has been known to be used for the word "sweetheart", it is extremely rare. Native Japanese inhabitants just do not use koi bito written in kanji for the word "sweetheart", only non-Japanese and/or die-hard anime/manga fans. Koi bito= lover, as in "someone who loves" (as in &#8220;cat lover&#8221; or &#8220;dog lover&#8221;), not "_____'s lover". It isn't used to imply reciprocated feelings.

:doublefacepalm:

Sorry, AG. :no:

EDIT: Removed FAIL... but I still stand by the double face-palm.
 
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Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Last time I checked, the Reunion Files were written in kanji, and koi bito in kanji has a different meaning from hiragana and katakana.

Plus, I was sure Normura was talking about Tifa's CHARACTER; PERSONALITY; TRAITS. You do know what traits means, right? Well let me give a definition of it.
Tachiba. Look it up. It's what's used in the sentence. http://jisho.org/kanji/details/立場

Want me to grab 'koibito' as well? It'd be sorta silly, since we all know what it means, so I won't unless asked.

Oh and the novella "On a Way to a Smile". Remember the part that Cloud finds Denzel in the church and takes him back to the bar. Tifa asks about the kid and Cloud says, "Aerith brought him to me." Why would Cloud say that? Wouldn't it be normal yo say, "Aerith brought him to us." IF Cloud and Tifa were really a couple. That just proves that Cloud and Tifa are just friends. Oh and by the way, Barret is also part of that family, too. So it isn't just Cloud, Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene. We just don't see him because he travels around the world looking for oil or what not.
And after she says that, Cloud smiles. How strange, that if he didn't like the sentiment, he smiles after she says that.
 

Katrak

>.>
I'd like to respond the carp bito section :3

Now about the koibito comment. I think a lot of fans misread it because koibito means a lot of things in the japanese language.

Last time I checked, the Reunion Files were written in kanji, and koi bito in kanji has a different meaning from hiragana and katakana.

Plus, I was sure Normura was talking about Tifa's CHARACTER; PERSONALITY; TRAITS. You do know what traits means, right? Well let me give a definition of it.


None of the definitions for "character" mention roles... period. Tifa is "like a mother, a sweetheart, and a close ally in battle" in that she embodies traits that one might find in a mother, a sweetheart, or a close ally in battle. These qualities are what distinguish Tifa from other characters and are the dimensions that Nomura wished to portray when creating AC Tifa. Nomura was making a general statement about Tifa's character (that is, her qualities). If someone is making this statement out to be more than that, then they are ignoring the words of Nomura himself.

Koibito (&#24651;&#20154;) was used as a kanji in reunion files, so whether or not people claim that the hiragana or katakana has a different meaning, there is no different meaning in this case. The kanji is only ever used in a romantic sense. Quite literally, the kanji for koi "&#24651;" is read as "love" and the second kanji is "hito" &#20154;, as in a person. So no, it doesn't have any other meanings. Yes, it's describing Tifa's qualities in english, but the word in Japanese is a NOUN, not an adjective. It is not calling her a "sweetheart", in the sense that she is a sweet person and full of love for those around her. It's describing her as the love of someone's life.
 

Isabella

Your Mom
AG, if you want to debate the LTD in all seriousness, I'd advise you not to quote material from those sites. They've been proven wrong many times over. The koibito information in particular. In fact, they've become a bit of a laughingstock.

No offense, just a friendly suggestion. :)
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Oh no, not the koispacebito issue. >.<

You...didn't happen to get that off the Devotion/Destinyblah site, did you? :doh:

Phew. Most of the information I found at that devotion website.

Oh, nevermind.
...what Isabella said.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
Okay that might going a little far with the fail and facepalm, Mei. :/

Sorry, I just couldn't help it. I always hated that nonsense :'( More than anything. It's kinda insulting to the Japanese. And also my part of Japanese.

I'm sorry again, AG. I couldn't help myself. :(
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I won't touch the koibito thing, because everyone's said the truth about that quite well already..

However, speaking of "wells" I really want to say that just because Cloud and Tifa as kids weren't familiar with each other, doesn't minimize or reduce its importance. Furthermore, Cloud wasn't forced against his will into doing it. Tifa was asking and really, really wanted it. But Cloud wanted to do it too and he held that promise close to his heart. If you look at the Compilation you will see just how much Cloud cherishes that promise and Tifa as well. Take a look at his character profile and the Compilation Check regarding the promise he keeps etched in his memory.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/348/cloud-strife-character-profile-p36-41/

The promise has been central to Cloud. Surely it means something very intimate and personal to him.

And then there's this wonderful bit from the Crisis Core Complete Guide.

Cloud and Tifa

Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, both born in Nibelheim. When Cloud leaves the village, he calls Tifa out to the water tower and promises that he will become a SOLDIER. At the same time, he is also made by Tifa to promise that he will come to rescue her if she is ever in trouble.

Following this, the pair experience many hardships, such as the Nibelheim incident which also appears in CC, and the Jenova War in FFVII, and through these the distance between them shortens. And in AC they live together, with Barret&#8217;s daughter Marlene and a boy named Denzel. Though there was also a period later where Cloud lived away from them after having contracted Geostigma, they finally reach a commune with each over and return to living together once again. In DC, they rush together to Vincent&#8217;s aid, in his battle against Deep Ground SOLDIER.

I mean, why in the world are Cloud and Tifa labeled together in an entry, stating they reach a commune together? For two people who are "just friends" they sure seem to end up together a lot. :monster:
 

Isabella

Your Mom
I'd like a Clerith fan to explain the inconsistency of Cloud NOT wanting to make the promise with Tifa. Remember, Cloud had a huge crush on her at this point. That was the reason he asked her out to the well in the first place. So why would he do something that obviously would've taken a lot of courage for little Cloud to do (ask her out to the well, tell her he's going to become a hero) then go, "ewww! icky girl wants to make a promise with me!" Does not flow, people.

Yes, Cloud is reticent at first. Why? Most likely because of his failure complex. He doesn't believe in himself. That's been his story since he was 8 years old.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Oh dear. Direct quotations from CxA and Koispacebito arguments. I shall let the arguments of the others stand as my reply for the time being.

And guess what, AG? In all of that, you gave 0 support for C/A. You attempted to tear down C/T. If you tear down C/T to 1, let us say, and C/A is still at 0, C/T still has the preponderance of the evidence.

AG, You need to come up with non proxy war arguments, and in game and from sourcebook evidences in favor of a CxA conclusion. Tearing down the opposition does not your argument make.
 
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Frostwave

lil' rice krispies
AKA
Elizabeth, Selda
(edit)Oh noez, I late again. :(

It's true that Cloud decided to join SOLDIER to impress Tifa, as well. But don't forget that Cloud idolize Sephiroth and wanted to be a hero, too.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Cloud want to be like Sephy because he was the strongest dood EVAR? If the boy wants to be strong enough to protect a girl, it makes sense that he'd pick The Great Sephiroth aka THE MAN.

But anyway, when Tifa is inside Cloud's spirit world, and the question of why he wanted to join SOLDIER came up, the only reason Cloud felt was important was that he wanted to be noticed. By Tifa("Who? You know who. YOU, that's who.).

And besides, the promise at the well was made because Tifa requested it.

The fact that a great deal of Cloud revolves around his sealed up secret wishes for Tifa is supposed to be a secret until late in the game. It's downplayed. That's why the well scene was put together the way it was, to make it seem like he could have been reluctant to make the promise with Tifa.

But, the important thing is that Cloud wanted to be Tifa's hero before she asked him to make that promise. After viewing the goings on in the Lifestream, looking back on that scene makes it easy to see the boy was just surprised. The girl he has a huge thing for, the girl he thinks must hate him, is asking him to be exactly what he wants to be -her hero.

And now we know that Tifa NEVER knew Cloud as kids except to be the boy that would "hang around".

And Aerith acts the way she does around Cloud in VII because of her feelings for Zack. :)

And Tifa and Cloud weren't, as children, as close as we are initially led to believe, but that doesn't mean that they were complete strangers. And Tifa liked him since way back in the day.

Oh and one more thing. Cloud doesn't ONLY listen to Tifa, he also listens to Aerith. Whose idea was for Cloud to cross-dress, so he could save Tifa - Aerith. If it weren't for that suggestion then Cloud would have had more trouble saving her from Don Corneo.

Cloud wanted to save Tifa. Wasn't he just gonna bust in and bump heads?

But, who said Cloud completely ignores everyone but Tifa? Guy's own mouth said that Tifa counts most is all.

Oh and one more thing. How could Cloud open up to Aerith if he had amnesia? How is a person suppose to talk about themselves when they don't remember much about themselve and have a new persona mixed with their memories? It would be impossible to, no? But Aerith knew that Cloud wasn't being himself but hiding behind a mask and we can find that proof in the date of the Golden Sauser where she says, "I want to meet the real you." Also, Cloud has shown of signs of interest in Aerith. At the Gongaga scene where Aerith finds out about Zack's death from his parents. She runs out of the house and Cloud worries about her. If you get him to follow her, he talks to her and figures out that she was Zack's girlfriend. One of the responses that you can give is "...jealous." So Cloud WAS jealous about Aerith and Zack's relationship. Also, the part where Aerith was kidnapped, Marlene tells Cloud that Aerith was asking a lot of questions about him and she points out, "She likes you." You ALSO have the choice to pick, "I hope so." At the part where Aerith figures out that she's the only Cetra left, Cloud comforts her and says, "But I-....we're here for you." Orginally Cloud wanted to say "I", but decided against it and used "we" quickly. Why would he do that? This proves that he does have feelings for her that are more than just friends.

Optional stuff? You also have the option to call Aerith "the slum drunk" and tell her that you don't think much of her.

And there are plenty sweet and outright (mucho)flirtatious things to say to Tifa, but I don't remember having the option to be as terrible to Tifa as you can be to Aerith.

But yeah, that's optional. Just a question, when did Cloud ever get "close" to Aerith when he wasn't jacked up? And you can say that he never got the chance to, but who fixed it up that way? SE, y'knowz? Doesn't seem to be a priority to them.

Oh and the novella "On a Way to a Smile". Remember the part that Cloud finds Denzel in the church and takes him back to the bar. Tifa asks about the kid and Cloud says, "Aerith brought him to me." Why would Cloud say that? Wouldn't it be normal yo say, "Aerith brought him to us." IF Cloud and Tifa were really a couple. That just proves that Cloud and Tifa are just friends.

Why would Cloud completely blow off his search for the Promised Land(Aerith), and instead ask Tifa to be with him always and shite?

Anyway, I don't think Cloud was thinking that Aerith brought Denzel to him because he was the child they should have had together. Pretty sure it was about penance, which explains why Cloud was focusing on himself there.

And the guy gives Tifa a purdy little smile that makes her think everything will turn out alright when she says that Aerith brought Denzel to them to keep safe.

Oh and by the way, Barret is also part of that family, too. So it isn't just Cloud, Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene. We just don't see him because he travels around the world looking for oil or what not.

Uh-huh. There are quite a few quotes that exclude Barret from the family that "Cloud and Tifa were forming in Edge".


[/has more cards up her sleeve]

I hope so, because this stuff is old. No offense, though, since a lot came from Devotion.
 
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Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
that 'only [her] opinion matters'
When I played that bit recently, I thought the Japanese one sounded different from the English one. It just trails off with 'more than what anyone else says, how you're acting....' which I read as her acting scared/etc. in that scene affects him more than whatever Sephiroth might say.

Definitions of character:
# Status or role; capacity: in his character as the father.
# 1. A person portrayed in an artistic piece, such as a drama or novel.
2. Characterization in fiction or drama: a script that is weak in plot but strong in character.

I found that in less than 5 minutes on Google. I assume some selective reading went on there when making that 'THERE'S NO ROLES IN THERE' statement.

:worffacepalm:

I never realised Star Trek had so many face palm scenes.

One of the responses that you can give is "...jealous." So Cloud WAS jealous about Aerith and Zack's relationship.
One of the responses you can give is "Tifa is my girlfriend." So Tifa WAS Cloud's girlfriend.

I had a load of examples of 'tachiba' that make no sense as 'personality'. But I cba looking for them. But I remember Zack being promoted to a 'tachiba' where he is in command of others in CC. Think about it. That does not make sense.

And koibito has just been said so many times now that it needs to own website to combat the misinformation and, quite possibily, lies.
 
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Frostwave

lil' rice krispies
AKA
Elizabeth, Selda
When I played that bit recently, I thought the Japanese one sounded different from the English one. It just trails off with 'more than what anyone else says, how you're acting....' which I read as her acting scared/etc. in that scene affects him more than whatever Sephiroth might say.

Oh, so Cloud was saying that he's starting to really get bugged since what Sephy says is bugging Tifa? Since she can't do anything to refute Sephiroth's claims, and is scared herself?
 
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