The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Tennyo]

@ Opposites attract only working in FFVIII:

Spoiler

I'm sorry but Squinoa=fail. They are so forced and not believable at all. Squall would have been better off with Quistis IMHO but sadly that isn't what happened.

@ koibito pic: lol that's cute, Tiff. Where did you find it? XD

 

[Celes Chere]

I actually found the Koibito picture a little bit cute too, lol. It was on Deviantart. And I definitely agree with your spoiler.

Edit:

WHUT. IS HER HAIR TOO DARK AND DEPRESSING FOR IT TO WORK?

Her man-brows, actually.

 

[Sunstrider]

It's those struggles that make them grow more as a pair. The power to over come the struggles that come along with life by supporting one another is an amazing thing.

Exactly. That's why I get annoyed when people claim that every argument or every struggle they go through means that they can't work as a couple. Hate to tell you, but every relationship worth anything is something you have to work for. Sure, characters in video games have more glamorous and dramatic trials, but the point is the same. It's hard, and there are going to be fights and problems and things you have to work through. What makes Cloud and Tifa such a good couple, in my opinion, is that they overcame those things. I find their relationship refreshing in a way that's very different from a fairytale romance. Not that I don't enjoy Disney romances or stuff like that, but I think seeing Cloud and Tifa go through and overcome so many troubles makes them more believable. It doesn't weaken the "cloti stance" or whatever you want to call it. It only strengthens it.

Tennyo. You know I love you, but don't make me pull out flow charts about how Squall and Rinoa are awesome. WHUT. IS HER HAIR TOO DARK AND DEPRESSING FOR IT TO WORK?

 

[Ⓐaron]

@ Opposites attract only working in FFVIII:

Spoiler

I'm sorry but Squinoa=fail. They are so forced and not believable at all. Squall would have been better off with Quistis IMHO but sadly that isn't what happened.

Spoiler

Squistis is fail. Quistis deserves someone who doesn't treat her like shit.

 

[Rinoa]

Sometimes I wonder who the freaking heck they are really shipping.

Their ideal selves.

Opposites attract don't always work. Squinoa won't be a lasting relationship, what with Rinoa always trying to change Squall and not accepting him as who he really is. Sure, him opening up is fine, but getting him to change to drastically is just...drastic. In FFVII, it's Cloud not being himself, and Tifa brought him back to his true self, regardless of how much of a "failure" he was. FFVIII is too dreamy and unreal... FFVII has a lot of realism in it.

FF8 may be very fantasy but the characterization wasn't based on their histories for once. The cast members each had some sort of complex (or a few) that exist in the real world and that's what made them more 'real' characters than those of the previous FF games. A friend of mine wrote a great post on the symbolism of this around 2001 if you like...

How the ensemble interacted and worked together in each new situation gave us a far more realistic example of the difficulties of working with different people. It may annoy players how each character seems to be diverting from what seems like the goal with their differences, because in previous FF games it was just follow the leader.

But I have to disagree on one point.. Squall's change wasn't as drastic as may initially seem and it was for the better.

Squall actually changed slowly through the course of the game. You'd have to look closer at what he says and does because he was in denial just about all the time. This includes his own thoughts to himself, especially where he's constantly trying to rationalize things.

It only seems drastic because the moment he stops lying to himself, FMVs and tons of awkward romance talk gets shoved in your face and there's no going back to the 'old' Squall. In the midst of that we forget that Rinoa changed, too. She used to always need people close to her but she grew and accepted that she would have to be alone to save everyone else. By the end of the game, they both became more 'normal'.

This is similar to FF7's reveal. The pummeling of effects/awkward romancy cutscenes in FF7's lifestream sequence and Highwind sequence may seem like a drastic turnaround for Cloud, but the hints of "it's not what it seemed" were already there.

So it may seem like Aerith would be who Cloud should end up with on a shallow surface level, but we know how that ended!

 

[Zee]

Wait, I apparently missed a few things. What's this about a lens flare ribbon?

A = the first letter in the alphabet = 1
C = the third letter in the alphabet = 3
1 + 3 = 4 and guess how many letters there are in LOVE? :3

what

 

[I Am Not Me]

@ Opposites attract only working in FFVIII:

Spoiler

I'm sorry but Squinoa=fail. They are so forced and not believable at all. Squall would have been better off with Quistis IMHO but sadly that isn't what happened.

Spoiler: For Tenten's Spoiler

Much agree! I don't care what anyone else says. The reality of life is there are no fairytales. Final Fantasy is fantasy. Realistically, Squinoa won't work, unless Squall is a total bananahead.

Speaking of Disney...

I think the appeal of the Clerith pairing also comes from princess fairytales and such. In Disney, the canonz all fall for each other within minutes of meeting. Like deztiny. Cloud and Aerith met and "hit it off quite well". Except it's Zacloud. So Zerith is destiny through Cloud. Yah.

In reality, unless you're an airhead, true love at first meeting (or weeks of knowing each other in the face of something bigger) isn't going to happen. Sure, you'll totally focus on each other when you're on the run/going to get killed/chasing a criminal. TTLY

 

[Celes Chere]

So Zerith is destiny

It has been described as such officially. Not to mention that Zack falling into Aerith's church was mentioned as "falling quickly into a crush". The way Cloud and Aerith are described as meeting contains such lines as:
"By accident"
and
"Merely exchanged words briefly".

While when describing Zerith:
"The fated encounter with Zack"

The only mention of destiny between C and A, was when it related to the plot, not their relationship.

 

[Tennyo]

Spoiler

Squistis is fail. Quistis deserves someone who doesn't treat her like shit.

Spoiler

True, but I'd like to think that she could "whip" Squall into shape. har har

 

[Ⓐaron]

Tenny: Well, hopefully you're right

 

[Tennyo]

Also Squistis sounds like Squish. lol

 

[I Am Not Me]

Okay, almost didn't see your post.

Their ideal selves.

Somehow, I knew that would be the answer.

FF8 may be very fantasy but the characterization wasn't based on their histories for once. The cast members each had some sort of complex (or a few) that exist in the real world and that's what made them more 'real' characters than those of the previous FF games. A friend of mine wrote a great post on the symbolism of this around 2001 if you like...

How the ensemble interacted and worked together in each new situation gave us a far more realistic example of the difficulties of working with different people. It may annoy players how each character seems to be diverting from what seems like the goal with their differences, because in previous FF games it was just follow the leader.

But I have to disagree on one point.. Squall's change wasn't as drastic as may initially seem and it was for the better.

Squall actually changed slowly through the course of the game. You'd have to look closer at what he says and does because he was in denial just about all the time. This includes his own thoughts to himself, especially where he's constantly trying to rationalize things.

It only seems drastic because the moment he stops lying to himself, FMVs and tons of awkward romance talk gets shoved in your face and there's no going back to the 'old' Squall. In the midst of that we forget that Rinoa changed, too. She used to always need people close to her but she grew and accepted that she would have to be alone to save everyone else. By the end of the game, they both became more 'normal'.

This is similar to FF7's reveal. The pummeling of effects/awkward romancy cutscenes in FF7's lifestream sequence and Highwind sequence may seem like a drastic turnaround for Cloud, but the hints of "it's not what it seemed" were already there.

So it may seem like Aerith would be who Cloud should end up with on a shallow surface level, but we know how that ended!

Okay, you have good points there. But the main thing is, I don't really care. I know Squinoa is so ttly canon lovez and crap, no matter how much I dislike the female part of it (no offense). But I still hated his total 180. Sure, he may not have changed as drastically as I saw, but Squinoa totally ruined a cooler Squall. Squinoa!Squall was a wuss IMO. Squall was more interesting when he was lying to himself.

Also, the awkward romance scenes? I gagged at them. Because they were too awkward and in-your-face. Lots of other romances are much more cheesy, but not as awkward and forced.


And yeah, slight Clerith is slight.

Edit: Er, no offense, Rinoa. Don't hate me.
Edit Edit: It's Quall, not Squistis. LOL What's the Q's in FFs anyhow?

 

[Rinoa]

I don't really care.

I don't care for opinions, either.

It merely seemed like your paragraph explanation on "opposites attract" was meant to be a fact based one.

 

[annacamille]

what

Clerith proof that I found online. It also said how the Japanese associate red with love and that Cloud and Aeris would embody that. Link doesn't seem to exist anymore, though :\

 

[Celes Chere]

Japanese associate red with love

Thanks to Meggy, I remember that interview about DMC saying that Dante wore red because of strength and courage, not love. The Japanese are responsible for that game, too. Really, if the creators don't SAY they intended for something to mean something, THEN IT DOESN'T. If that makes sense.

Plus, Terra wore red and she had no love interest. Pink is more Aerith's color anyway, and that relates to Zack, not Cloud.

 

[Sunstrider]

But I still hated his total 180.

I didn't see a total 180. Squall changed slowly over time. He developed as a character, and it didn't make him a wuss or anything. You have to pay more attention to the dialogue. It felt like Rinoa always needed someone at first, but then Squall realized at some point that he needed people too whereas Rinoa grew to try and stand on her own. If you don't like the portrayal, that's one thing, but Squall and Rinoa really helped each other grow as characters, and it made them both better in the long run. They compliment each other, and, correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think they were made to.

Honestly, I think people don't like it typically because they're all about the badass, stoic, jackass character because that's ~totally awesome~ and such. Once that character grows beyond his or her own insecurities, they're suddenly boring losers. Squall is a perfect example of this. People like him as a complete dickhead, but the second he actually betters himself and actually is challenged by someone, he's lamesauce. I mean, I get that not everyone's going to like certain pairings or whatever, but the characterization and development doesn't suck just because you don't like it.

To be somewhat on topic, I think this happens with Cloud to a degree. People would rather him angst alone in his corner and be all dark and badass than see him happy with someone who cares about him.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Plus, Terra wore red and she had no love interest. Pink is more Aerith's color anyway, and that relates to Zack, not Cloud.

Now you're reminding me of the people telling me "NO TERRA ISN'T A LOVE INTEREST BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T HAVE A PINK=RED RIBBON." And then it turned into a discussion of "Is lavender ALSO pink=red?" and the person I was arguing with just dropped it like a hot potato and responded to other posts by saying "BUT THE JAPANESE HAVE BLUE=GREEN SO IT'S THE SAME THING."

Good times, good times.

 

[Celes Chere]

Honestly, I think people don't like it typically because they're all about the badass, stoic, jackass character because that ~totally awesome~ and such. Once that character grows beyond his or her own insecurities, they're suddenly boring losers. Squall is a perfect example of this. People like him as a complete dickhead, but the second he actually betters himself and actually is challenged by someone, he's lamesauce. I mean, I get that not everyone's going to like certain pairings or whatever, but the characterization and development doesn't suck just because you don't like it.

I hated Squall's 180 (which I agree with), and not because I liked him as a jackass. I hated him as a jackass, and I hated him as a 'changed' man also. I don't see how Rinoa randomly changed him while she was pushing him to do this, forcing him to do that. Calling him "meanie" and "Squally" and getting all into his business. Then there's Quistis who genuinely cared about Squall for a long time, and only got told to talk to a wall. I guess I just don't understand Squall one bit. I also find Squinoa to be random. Imo, there was no slowly changing after time. It was just BAM AMAGAD I LOVE YOU.

Nin, good times indeed. I can't believe we actually debated that shit. Pink=Red and such. And, of course when we say the ribbon = Zerith, it's countered with "Aerith changed her ribbon at the end of CC" and then give diagrams on how the ribbon is a different color and shape. Lmfao.

 

[Zee]

Clerith proof that I found online. It also said how the Japanese associate red with love and that Cloud and Aeris would embody that. Link doesn't seem to exist anymore, though :\

Oh, wait, this sounds familiar. Are you sure it was legit, though? Cause I know there were at least two fake out sites mocking ridiculous proofz.

TESS, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CARP SHRINE? )8

Pink is more Aerith's color anyway, and that relates to Zack, not Cloud.

Zack's color is a ghey ass blue.

 

[I Am Not Me]

@ Squinoa arguments:

Fine, you win, I'm pwnd. I cba to reply. I'm not even looking for an argument. Apologies to those I aggravated.

Zack's color is a ghey ass blue.

Which is why the Clackers are The Blue Siders. Blue is the new gay color.

And we're back to the 'red is the symbol color for love'. DMC Dante agrees, I'm sure.

 

[Celes Chere]

DMC Dante agrees, I'm sure.

He and Nero are teh canonz, obviously. Since they both wear red.

 

[paoo]

Reminds me. Someone brought up Aerith's dress in CC. Aerith's dress was made blue and white to relate to the sky. Guess what's in the sky? Clouds!

Dear god.
Aerith was afraid of the sky in CC, so does she actually dislike Cloud? o_o WOW..

*rabid Clerith*: But.. Cloud and Aerith didn't know eachother back then!
*me*: But you just said..
*rabid Clerith*: FORGET WHAT I SAID!!

Some people are like that.. They are twisting it all around.

 

[Vendel]

To be frank, I feel we do need to deal with this in much the same way as the Harmonian/ Zutara/ etc. nonsense was dealt with. There's liking a pairing, then there's ignoring reality (or what passes for it) and character and plot assasination in the name of your ship.

Looking at the issue from a blank slate it is not hard to see which way the ship sails. But when you start out from the mindset that Cloud is hopelessly in love with a dead woman. Well then the fun begins.

If anything even if I believed in Clerith I would eventually get mentally exhausted jumping through logical hoops and just making shit up. A little introspection goes a long way. "Occams Razor makes the cutting clean" as they say.

But yeah. What we need to do is make known that in this shipping war, ours has all the canons.
No, that's not a typo. More a pun.

I see what you did there.

 

[Fighter]

Wait, I apparently missed a few things. What's this about a lens flare ribbon?

There is a pink lens flare in Calling. Certain people think it's Aerith's ribbon floating along side Cloud.

 

[Vendel]

The LTD goes on in full force on youtube (funny they don't come around here)...just a sample of choice comments.

Hey! Dumbass! Last time I checked, Cloud has never proposed to Tifa or Cloud has said, "I love you. Let's get married!" And last time I checked, he doesn't have a damn leash that says, "Property of Tifa". So shut up and keep your fucken comments to yourself. Cloud doesn't belong to ANYONE! He only belongs to Normura! If you know who that even is. D<
.......................
Oh Tifa and Cloud do appear in a game together, but beating the living crap out of each other. Ain't that sweet? While Cloud and Aerith appear in a million games together with romantic comments to one another.
.......................
If Cloud ever proposed his love to anyone, then I will completely suppot it, but till then Cloud belongs to no one.

All that from one user...on one vid...ugh.

And from the same user

Actually in Case of Tifa (From On A Way To A Smile), it's been established that Barret is the father, Tifa is the mother, and Cloud is the older brother. Actually, Cloud was the last person to join the family that Barret and Tifa created.

(no pink glasses on here)

And a different person from the "your all idiots" camp

Cloud/Aeris fans should grow up, I think all Tifa/Cloud, Aeris/Cloud fans should grow up who bash each other for who thinks Cloud should be with and take it so drastically and seriously. Come on, you can only say it when you see it written down on hard proof paper, or it's right in front of your face as in, Cloud has kissed Tifa, or he says he loves her etc

God I love youtube. It's the reason I became a foaming at the mouth rabid.....(links to be provided upon request)