The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[lunar_crimson]

Alright. So since the room is stated to be his office two times at the least and NADA for bedroom--Then Vendel's example should still apply without people making the biggest fuss about Tifa's line regarding "your room." KAPICE?

I feel the need to further illustrate the point in my last post. The infamous Cloud sleeping "do you love me" scene.

So here we have what I myself and most logical people imagine the scene playing out as.

Spoiler

Pretty standard strained relationship situation.


Now let us imagine this a little differently. From say a PN POV.

Spoiler

"Holy stalker Batman".


As you can plainly see. One scenario makes sense. The other....less so. Case closed.

 

[Ⓐaron]

And yet room =/= bedroom. Saying "room" instead of "bedroom" means that Cloud and Tifa clearly share a bed. Ah yes, not complicated at all, just a bit tortured.

They don't even say "your room" in Japanese just "the room." As in "the other room." It's not complicated or tortured at all.

Also, if him sleeping in that room is not an unusual set of events, then why is it even noteworthy that Tifa tells him to sleep in it? Why tell us that she tells him to sleep there? Its very presence in the novella implies that it's an atypical circumstance.

Well that logic is so wrong I don't know where to start. You think that Tifa being Cloud's room makes her a pathetic stalker, so they have to share a bed so she doesn't come off that way? Huh?

I think that Tifa being in Cloud's room and hovering over him the entire night would make her a pathetic stalker, which is what would be implied by that scene if it were to be interpreted as them not sharing a room.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

OMG! Photoshop, of course, makes things so clear!

I'm not trying to make a big fuss, I asked a simple question that no one can give a real answer to. "What makes you think Cloud and Tifa share a bed?"

"Because they never say Cloud has a bedroom separate from Tifa's"
- They never say he's sharing one with her either.

"Cloud's room is always called his office and never his room".
- And there's no addressing at all by Tifa or Cloud of "their" room.

Now I remember why I estranged myself from the FF7 LT, too much tortured logic from both sides.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Yeah, by ignoring what people actually say it's possible to make the "logic" of the LTD into something "tortured," but conveniently you completely left out the underlying deductive reasoning all of us have used for inferring why Tifa and Cloud share a room in your "explanation." Try reading our posts again, please.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Actually, now that I think about it this argument is even more absurd than I'd previously realised. Why would Tifa even have to tell Cloud to go sleep in the office if that were what he usually did? Would he have, on a night when he literally said he wanted to be alone, been attempting to put the moves on Tifa so he could sleep in her bed? That's absurd. The only logical interpretation is that Cloud usually sleeps in there and she's telling him to gtfo.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Actually, now that I think about it this argument is even more absurd than I'd previously realised. Why would Tifa even have to tell Cloud to go sleep in the office if that were what he usually did? Would he have, on a night when he literally said he wanted to be alone, been attempting to put the moves on Tifa so he could sleep in her bed? That's absurd. The only logical interpretation is that Cloud usually sleeps in there and she's telling him to gtfo.

Except if you'll read the novella, the "in there" is the bar, of course Cloud doesn't sleep there. And Tifa doesn't say "go sleep in your office", she says "go drink in your room". Get your facts straight.

 

[Edley]

I don't think it's 100% proven that they share a bed at any point during CoT, but the whole point of that story was to show Cloud's character regression from the confident hero at the end of VII to the guilt-ridden loner we see at the start of AC and how that transition affected Tifa, the woman who loves him. So again it's a readers inference that makes us believe that they're involved in a romantic relationship where they would sleep together and we base that inference on their mutual feelings we see them both carrying in VII, CoT, and the various creators comments littered across the texts SE's released.

Whether Drake shares that opinion is completely up to him.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I don't think it's 100% proven that they share a bed at any point during CoT, but the whole point of that story was to show Cloud's character regression from the confident hero at the end of VII to the guilt-ridden loner we see at the start of AC and how that transition affected Tifa, the woman who loves him.

That I agree with, yes.

 

[Edley]

Get your facts straight.

HEY! HER NAME'S TINA! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!!

 

[Ⓐaron]

Except if you'll read the novella, the "in there" is the bar. And Tifa doesn't say "go sleep in your office", she says "go drink in your room". Get your facts straight.

Tifa doesn't say "Go drink in your room," she says "Go drink in room." No possessive adjective. As I've pointed out to you several times in this thread already. You get your facts straight if you're going to be condescending about direct quotes.

And being in the bar doesn't make "in room" any less redundant. If Cloud's natural place of residence were his office, she wouldn't need to say it because that's where he'd gravitate towards anyway. She could just say "Get out."

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Tifa doesn't say "Go drink in your room," she says "Go drink in room." No possessive adjective. As I've pointed out to you several times in this thread already. You get your facts straight if you're going to be condescending about direct quotes.

*rings buzzer*

It was night, and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking alcohol even though he rarely did. He drained his glass. Tifa thought about it before going over and filling his glass.

“Shall I join you?” There was something she wanted to talk to him about.

“I want to drink alone.”

Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, “Then drink in your room.”

Various translations on other site says "your room" too.

And being in the bar doesn't make "in room" any less redundant. If Cloud's natural place of residence were his office, she wouldn't need to say it because that's where he'd gravitate towards anyway. She could just say "Get out."

She could, except "go drink in your room" flows infinitely better from a literary standpoint. What sounds better?

"I want to drink alone"
"Then drink in your room"

or:

"I want to drink alone"
"Get out"

 

[Ⓐaron]

*rings buzzer*



Various translations on other site says "your room" too.

Every single translation that says "your room" is not a word-for-word translation of the original Japanese; there is no article in the original Japanese.

She could, except "go drink in your room" flows infinitely better from a literary standpoint. What sounds better?

"I want to drink alone"
"Then drink in your room"

or:

"I want to drink alone"
"Get out"

It's your opinion that it flows better, and it's my opinion that it's much less natural. If I were pissed off at someone and wanted to send them to where they usually spent most of their time I'd just tell them to get out or go away. Why waste words by specifying the destination if it were obvious?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Every single translation that says "your room" is not a word-for-word translation of the original Japanese; there is no article in the original Japanese.

Ah, so every translation of CoT, including the one hosted here, is just wrong then?

 

[Raquelborn]

They don't even say "your room" in Japanese just "the room." As in "the other room." It's not complicated or tortured at all.

That simply means we can't tell which room she's specifying. Hitoshura obviously felt she was most likely to be saying 'your room'. And 'your room', as Drake has already pointed out, usually means one's own bedroom rather than anything else.

Also, if him sleeping in that room is not an unusual set of events, then why is it even noteworthy that Tifa tells him to sleep in it? Why tell us that she tells him to sleep there? Its very presence in the novella implies that it's an atypical circumstance.

She doesn't:

Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, “Then drink in your room.”

The only thing that's note worthy is that she's pissed at him and wants him to go to somewhere out of the way. This is most likely to be his own bedroom as it'd be the one place she'd be unlikely to walk into him.

I think that Tifa being in Cloud's room and hovering over him the entire night would make her a pathetic stalker, which is what would be implied by that scene if it were to be interpreted as them not sharing a room.

Not at all. It's most likely she walked in when she wanted to say something, that's how I interpreted the scene when I read it: Tifa wonders up to Cloud's bed because she has something on her mind, she accidentally wakes him up, they talk and then she waits a bit for an answer she doesn't get and walks back out of his room. Afterall she wonders into the Denzel and Marlene's bedroom when they're asleep to kiss them goodnight, it doesn't make her a stalking peadophile to do that.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Ah, so every translation of CoT, including the one hosted here, is just wrong then?

Not wrong, just not word-for-word. What sounds good in Japanese doesn't necessarily sound good in English.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yay personal history time. When I was but a lad, my father had an office in the house.

This was 'his room'. He still slept in a bed with my mother. Sometimes this office was also a guest bedroom depending on the arrangement of the house. Currently it's the room I sleep in when I visit my parents. My dad still refers to it as his room, despite sharing a bed with my mother.

And drake, the logic that they share a bed is simple parsimony. As they are starting their new life together, as they have mutual feelings for each other, as Cloud has opened his heart to Tifa, as they are in a relationship, and really, at this point it's not even worth entertaining the notion that they aren't, and as there is absolutely no mention of movement, or surprise from Cloud at her presence, not even worth a remarking of 'why are you here or what's the matter', just a perplexed look at having awoken from a question he heard some to all of, and as the room people wish to claim as Cloud's 'bedroom' is only ever referred to as his office in the official translation, it makes sense that Cloud, in a relationship with Tifa, shares a room/bed with her, and this is certainly more contextually consistent than Tifa deciding to pull an Edward and hover in Cloud's room all night.

Also, from what we're given, go drink in 'the' room would have also been completely legitimate. A english and your need for articles.

 

[Ⓐaron]

That simply means we can't tell which room she's specifying. Hitoshura obviously felt she was most likely to be saying 'your room'. And 'your room', as Drake has already pointed out, usually means one's own bedroom rather than anything else.

Or, as is more likely, Hitoshura felt that "your room" flows more naturally in English than "the room", and felt that being consistent with all other references to "the room" throughout the fiction would be better than changing it to "the office".

She doesn't:

It doesn't matter. If the office is where he spends all his time, she shouldn't need to specify that he go there.

The only thing that's note worthy is that she's pissed at him and wants him to go to somewhere out of the way. This is most likely to be his own bedroom as it'd be the one place she'd be unlikely to walk into him.

Yes, which, once again, is why she shouldn't need to specify it. If it's his bedroom and he spends all his time there, why specify it? Why not just say "Then go drink alone"?

Not at all. It's most likely she walked in when she wanted to say something, that's how I interpreted the scene when I read it: Tifa wonders up to Cloud's bed because she has something on her mind, she accidentally wakes him up, they talk and then she waits a bit for an answer she doesn't get and walks back out of his room. Afterall she wonders into the Denzel and Marlene's bedroom when they're asleep to kiss them goodnight, it doesn't make her a stalking peadophile to do that.

How would she know Cloud didn't respond all night if she didn't spend the entire night there? The piece, written from Tifa's point of view in limited third-person perspective, clearly specifies that Cloud does not give an answer throughout the entire night:

Tifa waited for his answer, though she couldn’t hear it even if she waited until the morning.

 

[Ryushikaze]

This just in:

New Clerith proofz found by yours truly!

What, only Aerith mentioned in Cloud's character profile? In Squall's, Zidane's, and Tidus' profiles, only the names of their love interests are mentioned (Rinoa, Garnet, and Yuna). Could it be that Clerith is ttly thar in Dissidia?!

Can we say CANONZ?

*playing rapid for Monkeyshines*

In addition to what Nini said, removing the word Sephiroth from the 'start of game' blurb- not actually Cloud's profile, which is shown when you click on the character and not the game logo- is certainly not cricket.

And Sara, Lenna, and Hilda get mentioned for Warior, Bartz, and Firi, no romance between any of them. Rosa is not mentioned for Cecil, and he had a child with her.

 

[Raquelborn]

Or, as is more likely, Hitoshura felt that "your room" flows more naturally in English than "the room", and felt that being consistent with all other references to "the room" throughout the fiction would be better than changing it to "the office".

True.

So you're saying the room she's referring to is his office? But how do you know since she/the writer hasn't specified? You don't know for sure.

It doesn't matter. If the office is where he spends all his time, she shouldn't need to specify that he go there.

Yes, which, once again, is why she shouldn't need to specify it. If it's his bedroom and he spends all his time there, why specify it? Why not just say "Then go drink alone"?

We're not debating where he spends all his time, we're discussing where he sleeps. The reason the line "Then drink in your room" came up is because it suggests he has his own bedroom that she is ordering him to clear off to because she's obviously annoyed at him. If he has his own room, which could easily be his own bedroom, then it's unlikely he sleeps in the same bed as Tifa.

"Then go drink alone" isn't requesting him to physically place himself in isolation/away from her which is what she wants. Telling him to drink in his own room does however, hence why the writer probably wrote it in that way, it's emphasising she doesn't want to be around him and letting you realise how angry she is. Quite frankly it works to good effect too.

How would she know Cloud didn't respond all night if she didn't spend the entire night there? The piece, written from Tifa's point of view in limited third-person perspective, clearly specifies that Cloud does not give an answer throughout the entire night:

Actually it isn't clearly specified. Here's the line:

Tifa waited for his answer, though she couldn’t hear it even if she waited until the morning.

It doesn't say that she did wait until the morning, it suggests that even if she had stayed to hear an answer, Cloud wouldn't of given one. Also the line quoted is in third-person objective form as opposed to third person limited, otherwise it would be phrased more like "Tifa felt that she wouldn't of heard..." for example, so the sentence is stating Cloud was never going to reply to her - it's not her opionion or view.

 

[Eerie]

Why no one paid attention to what lunar wrote?

During their holiday, Tifa and Marlene were cleaning the room that was now Cloud’s office.

[if I could make even more shiny, I swear I would]

There's a BED/COT/WHATHEFUCKYOUWANTTOSLEEPIN yet, it's referred as "OFFICE". Meaning: he does not sleep here.

Question: if he does not sleep in his office, then, why is there a bed in there [a quite unused one, if you compare it to the ones in the kids' bedroom]?

Can't we use god damn logic, because no way in hell Tifa's pulling an Edward on us, k thx.

 

[Isabella]

Wait, are people suggesting Cloud has two rooms, a bedroom and an office? Then why does he need a cot in his office?

Also the line quoted is in third-person objective form as opposed to third person limited, otherwise it would be phrased more like "Tifa felt that she wouldn't of heard..." for example, so the sentence is stating Cloud was never going to reply to her - it's not her opionion or view.

The phrases "Tifa thought" or "Tifa felt," etc, are not required for a third person limited subjective narration.

 

[lunar_crimson]

So you're saying the room she's referring to is his office? But how do you know since she/the writer hasn't specified? You don't know for sure.

So, I'm not quite sure I understand you and Drake here. You two are arguing that because "room" isn't specified to be Cloud's office or bedroom, it COULD be referring to his bedroom. But answer this, IF Cloud has his own bedroom, why would he need a cot in his office? So he has two rooms?

Or do you believe this "room" is BOTH Cloud's office and bedroom. B/c if you do, it's absurd for you to even argue with people who are saying that Tifa is referring to his office, because duh, it IS his office. The only contention here is whether the "room" is just an office with a cot or an office AND a bedroom. So technically, for those who assert that this "room" is a bedroom, you need to cite at least one quote where it s referred as such--because this "room" is only ever referred to as an office.

Edit: I've been ninja-ed.

 

[KissTheRain]

Guy's isn't this the who Cloud is desitned for thread not the "who's room Cloud sleeps in room"?

Well, I might as well put my two bits in..well to start Marlene is said to sleep in Tifa's room right? Then even if Cloud and Tifa did sleep in the same room, I doubt they would be fucking while she was in there. But in VII, before AVALANCHE goes on their next mission Tifa asks how Cloud slept and either he responds something like "next to you great" or "Barret's snoring kept me up", so I think that is suggesting he was by her or Barret or both for that matter. Whatever, I don't think if or if not it is confirmed Cloud and Tifa share a bed would mean much.

Back to the real supposed topic of this, I still believe Cloud and Aerith were destined for each other because of the spiritual connection. I doubt you could have a spiritual connection with someone that isn't your soulmate, really.

 

[Isabella]

Marlene is said to sleep in Tifa's room right?

While Barret was still there. Then he left and she got her own room, until Denzel arrived.

Back to the real supposed topic of this, I still believe Cloud and Aerith were destined for each other because of the spiritual connection. I doubt you could have a spiritual connection with someone that isn't your soulmate, really.

What evidence do you have of a spiritual connection?

 

[Dashell]

wow this is the first time I've ever really paid attention to this thread.. is this seriously what goes on? You guys pick a stupid topic like a bed and argue about it for pages on end?... wow... I had no idea.

or:

"I want to drink alone"
"Get out"

also lol

And I want to say one more time, Tifa asking Cloud if he loved her when he was asleep does not make her a stalker (if she just did it once.) Now I agree with the people who say they were sharing a room, but... again walking into his room and asking a question isn't stalkerish at all. Unless she did it every night.