The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It is indeed the Memorial Album that I refer to.

Also, Hito, the link does not work, though I don't know if it's your link or the endpoint that's at fault.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

There's was some extra text in the link, but it works now.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

You mean like eveything else that's in favor of Tifa? Big surprise there. LOL
I don't think the Clerii are very fond of MA. Or CC...or anything except Maiden (though God knows why)

 

[Fighter]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

...or anything except Maiden (though God knows why)

Because we are not fond of Maiden. Only it's not for the reasons they think.

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Fighter link=topic=53.msg5388#msg5388 date=1230949437]

...or anything except Maiden (though God knows why)

Because we are not fond of Maiden. Only it's not for the reasons they think.
[/quote]

It's really amusing to see that Crisis Core and the CC Ultimania contradict the FFVII story AND Maiden, instead of Maiden being the contradictory piece of work. I was over at the Northern Crater (For shits and giggles) and I remember being linked to a fan site that claimed Maiden was supervised.

All in all, I don't see how the entire official game CC, contradicts Maiden. Ohhhh well. :

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

CC, a game they spent buttloads of time and money on and the game they took great effort in not fuckign up the original too much is the one that's wrong.

Maiden, some story written by someone who isn't even part of the staff (basically glorified fanfiction) which isn't even worthy of being mentioned in ultimanias or even worked into a timeline, is god's word.

LOL

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

And even then, what is even more illogical is Maiden isn't even Cleris. It actually supports Cloud and Tifa - and doesn't destroy Zack and Aeris. We've said it before, but if people actually read the story more than they cherry-picked statements out of context, it would be rather obvious.

 

[Masamune]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Until I see some action, it's a platonic relationship.

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Eh, I dunno, I'm quite sure my parents are an item without having to witness any action (thank god).

 

[Shademp]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Isabella link=topic=53.msg5601#msg5601 date=1231031754]
Eh, I dunno, I'm quite sure my parents are an item without having to witness any action (thank god).
[/quote]
The question is; are your parents' love canon? We better ask them to publish an Ultimania about it.

I only ever suspected a Love Triangle drama due to the character descriptions of Tifa and Aeris in the game manual. Had it not been for that misleading piece of paper, after all we know that Tifa is NOT cheerful (though at an early stage she may have been intended for that stereotypical attitude), I would not have seen signs of this drama where there were none.
The way I see it disc1 paints a picture of the Cloud-Aeris couple, while never outright having them state their feelings. The date with Aeris is the default one and she says she wants to get to know him. Nothing definite there. Then she died and we never got to know what could have happened.
Tifa have been able to take part of most of Cloud's real self, while Aeris was spending time with a confused individual mimicking her old crush. There simply have been much more development there; plus the Compilation has geared towards Cloti.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Shademp link=topic=53.msg5618#msg5618 date=1231034577]
[quote author=Isabella link=topic=53.msg5601#msg5601 date=1231031754]
Eh, I dunno, I'm quite sure my parents are an item without having to witness any action (thank god).
[/quote]
The question is; are your parents' love canon? We better ask them to publish an Ultimania about it.[/quote]

You guys have no idea how hard this made me laugh.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Shademp link=topic=53.msg5618#msg5618 date=1231034577]
The question is; are your parents' love canon? We better ask them to publish an Ultimania about it.[/quote]

Way ahead of you.

I only ever suspected a Love Triangle drama due to the character descriptions of Tifa and Aeris in the game manual. Had it not been for that misleading piece of paper, after all we know that Tifa is NOT cheerful (though at an early stage she may have been intended for that stereotypical attitude),

Actually, she is cheerful. We are told she is the one who keeps AVALANCHE in good spirits. She just seems less so because of the hyper genki Yuffie and Aggressive Aerith.

I would not have seen signs of this drama where there were none.
The way I see it disc1 paints a picture of the Cloud-Aeris couple, while never outright having them state their feelings. The date with Aeris is the default one and she says she wants to get to know him. Nothing definite there. Then she died and we never got to know what could have happened.

It can be said, though, that disc 1 WANTS you to see things where there is none. It very much plays with you in anticipation of the end of disc.

Tifa have been able to take part of most of Cloud's real self, while Aeris was spending time with a confused individual mimicking her old crush. There simply have been much more development there; plus the Compilation has geared towards Cloti.

While true, the problem isn't that Aerith never knew the real Cloud. The problem is that real Cloud would have remembered how much he was fixated on Tifa, after unlocking his secret tender memories.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I'm still having an argument over canon on another forum:

http://genesisawards.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=ffvii&action=display&thread=359&page=9

Anyone have any tips or such to help me in getting my point across?

 

[Tetsujin]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Tell them to look up the damn word on wikipedia or any other source, since their definition of canon and fanon is complete and utter bullshit.

 

[looneymoon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Tennyo link=topic=53.msg5721#msg5721 date=1231051797]
I'm still having an argument over canon on another forum:

http://genesisawards.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=ffvii&action=display&thread=359&page=9

Anyone have any tips or such to help me in getting my point across?
[/quote]

...my brain is exploding due to their definitions of fanon/canon.

I consider myself a patient person, but I don't think I'm suited to these sort of discussions

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

@ Tet: I guess I never thought of that. I just may have to resort to such tacticts.

@ lunar: Yeah, I'm finding myself wanting to rip my hair out.

Here is the page with my response: http://genesisawards.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=ffvii&action=display&thread=359&page=10

How did I do? More tips/ammo would be great.

 

[Tetsujin]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

On the way to a Smile was written by Kazushige Nojima. Canon? If it had been in the game

What is that person? Stupid?
On The (etc.) is another entry in the compilation. It's the official AC prologue book. If that isn't canon, then neither are AC, CC etc.
Bullshit.
In fact, I think that this person's definition of canon is in itself fanon.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I don't want to get mean about it. But I am at a loss on how to properly approach this. How do you make someone see common sense?

 

[Tetsujin]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

You're too nice about it.
In my personal opinion, people like that need the truth just slapped into their face.
Because bullshitting makes me a sad panda. D'=

 

[looneymoon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I'm basically copying a post I made on FFF regarding canon vs. non-canon. I don't really want to rephrase all the points I made there. Basically, canon isn't a matter of perspective

Just some stuffs I put in that particular thread.

"Canon is not a personal judgement, made up by the fans, it is entirely up to the creator(s). A big example would be the original Star Wars trilogy - despite what fans may prefer, the changes in the latest DVD are indeed the canon version of the story. Also, the Marvel/DC universes have ever-changing canon, and and abundant of retcons. Sometimes the changes really suck, but I like to think of it as a continuous writing process - as a story keeps development, there would obviously be some changes along the way. Disney sequels are canon, despite sucking.

Another case where the original work is not considered the canon is with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The original movie (made in 1992) is NOT the canon story. The TV series is the canon Buffy. The Buffy Movie is retconned by the series, written by the movie's creator Joss Whedon." Joss Whedon has SPECIFICALLY stated that the original movie is not canon. Thus, we take it as non-canon.

"However, Advent Children for example isn't just some hypothetic scenario that happens after the end of FF7, it is a direct continuation of the story made by the core team involved with the orignal FF7. It is the canon. If you were going to discuss and analyze the world of FF7, you have to take in the entire canon (not just the original game) into account. Otherwise, your opinion may be deemed invalid based on information from a canon source you have not considered."

"So no, this isn't really a perspective thing. It's not our worlds to control, the creators have full authority over it. We may have our own specific perspective on said world, but in the end they are the gods over what they create. Fans like to think they 'know' the stories better than the creators do, but at the end of the day their word >>> ours.

So, if the intention by the creator(s) was to make it non-canon, then it is to be treated as such. Otherwise, published retroactive sequels/prequels are canon. If you're going to discuss the entire Star Wars series without seeing the New Trilogy, your opinion would be less informed because it doesn't take in the full canon of the world."

I'm not sure how much you can use to counteract their claims that marerials such as Ultimania and interviews do not act as canon. But seriously, it's undeniable that author intent = the canon. I mean, I can go on thinking that after the end of Spirited Away Chihiro and Haku somehow meet again, but really, that really wasn't the intent of the story even though that's something I, as a fan, like to think how it went. If Miyazaki came out and said that they do encounter at some point then... my fanon view becomes canon. The story is never up to me, it's up to Miyazaki.

and I totally understand trying to not be mean. That's why I try to refrain from discussing with people who fail to see common sense. I don't like having to get my bitchface on, but I may not be able to help it

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Yeah, OTWTAS isnt canon. Its merely a prologue to AC which SE is going to update. Its totally fanon. I was supervising it.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I came to help Tennyo. Short and simple works best when people are trying to personally interpret what canon means. They obviously have been misinformed, and if they continue then I'd simply ignore them and tell them they are wrong. Because they are. Tell them ignoring the Ultimanias is like ignoring DoC or CC because their stories weren't in the original game. Ask them if they consider any prequels or sequels to be canon, since authors can just as easily change the canon in those as they can with their own words in interviews or books.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I doubt this is just misinformation, I suspect bias here.
You dont need to have much common sense to figure that Ultimanias and guides were written by the creators for fans to help them understand the story better.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I can understand that if something was changed in a story you like, you'd want to ignore it. But pretending the definition of canon is different than what it is, and stating such in a debate is a bit foolish.
And here comes the most common question in the debate. Someone states they believe Cloud showed romantic interest towards Aerith, and the rest of ask, "Where?"

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

The person that I'm debating the definition of canon with seems to actually want to disprove both pairings as canon. Go with the whole, "It's all up to interpretation," shtick.