The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=53.msg4736#msg4736 date=1230670136]
But if she was hurt by Cloud's distancing himself, how could she have revealed those feelings to him? He wouldn't be around.
[/quote]

I'm talking prior to the man's full walkabout when he's growing withdrawn, as per CoT.

[quote author=looneymoon link=topic=53.msg4761#msg4761 date=1230676729]
Lol awwww poor Ryu for all that undeserved bitchiness XD
My post about Cid's package was deleted too [/quote]

Poor? If lulz were money I'd have a fortune on what that bitchiness provides.

Considering that I find few of them use Aeris as a means of self-insertion to the story, I really don't understand why they wouldn't self-insert through Tifa instead. She's obviously the one who has got him completely whipped. I guess in thier heart of hearts they think that Aeris is some sort of Mary-Sue, or something.

It's because they insert via Aerith that they want her to win. They already had an emotional investment in the character.

[quote author=null link=topic=53.msg4793#msg4793 date=1230680824]
It's just pent up sexual attraction. Ryu turns Clerii on. I swear, I've seen it with my own eyes. [/quote]

Ah... LSA. Fun times.

[quote author=Goodbye Charlie link=topic=53.msg4849#msg4849 date=1230686182]
Have you proof of that? Because honestly, I think I, Bender Goodbye Charlie, turn Ryu on. I've heard of this RyuxCleri shipping but it's not canon. Where's the proofz? I mean, Clerii are so not interested - you can tell. Do you see them touching each others hands? Giving long meaningful stares? No. And I'm willing to argue this point for an entire decade [/LTD]
[/quote]

Not to ruin the LTD fun, but before you begin, do I get a say in this at all?

As for Ultimania states it Clearly, the game does too.
Tifa was attracted to the shy, insecure boy who dreamed big, and who she believed could make it big, even when he didn't. And when he didn't make it big, she didn't care, because it wasn't making it big that attracted her to him, it was him.

Tenny, firstly, tell them they're misusing the word fanon. Secondly, tell them fine- and then tell her that removes Maiden- originates in an Ultimania- but leaves the On the way to a smile Novellas.
Out of curiosity, do they allow 'making of' information at all? That gets quite a lot of Reunion files back in play.

Come to think of it, where is this forum? Sounds like someone's abusing the notion of what is and is not canon, and I get to force choke a bitch.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Tennyo link=topic=53.msg4880#msg4880 date=1230694940]
So I'm having an interesting debate on another forum. Apparently anything outside of the story such as Ultimanias, guides, etc, are considered fanon, not canon. Even if the writer/author/creater themselves said it, it's still fanon because it wasn't fit into the story somehow.

So this means Dumbledore totally isn't gay...
[/quote]

Fanon - made by fans; canon - made by the creators.

It doest 'fit' into the story, because it contradicts Clerith wild theories.

 

[looneymoon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Tennyo link=topic=53.msg4880#msg4880 date=1230694940]
So I'm having an interesting debate on another forum. Apparently anything outside of the story such as Ultimanias, guides, etc, are considered fanon, not canon. Even if the writer/author/creater themselves said it, it's still fanon because it wasn't fit into the story somehow.

So this means Dumbledore totally isn't gay...
[/quote]

I guess we can keep on believing Rinoa is Ultimecia then, or that Laguna isn't Squall's father.

Canon abuse is incredibley annoying. There was a thread on another forum where it aked if people considered spinoffs (refering to Advent Children and the like) canon. I literally wanted to facepalm. The phrase "Consider canon" is an oxymoron in itself.

It's because they insert via Aerith that they want her to win. They already had an emotional investment in the character.

It suddenly makes sense now.

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It's because they insert via Aerith that they want her to win.

Psh, and what's so bad about 'Aerith' winning Zack? He's a bajillion times better than Cloud.
I've noticed that Clerii really ignore his existence. They can't see him at the end of AC for some reason.

Ryu, could it be because of those special goggles you once mentioned?

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Yeah. Aerith = true love always while Zack is jut a friend...

I say it's the other way around, IMHO.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I've noticed that Clerii really ignore his existence. They can't see him at the end of AC for some reason.

Clerii ignore 50% of the Compilation.
And twist the other half

 

[Stella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Well the LTD is officially banned on FFF guys, haha. You put up to good of a fight xD

Ya know, they never did respond to that post about Aerith and Tseng...wonder why? =P

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

That is so lame why is it banned?

Also link please?

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Ya know, they never did respond to that post about Aerith and Tseng...wonder why? =P

Cali/Ume did. She said,
"Tseng is way too old, he's like a grandfather."
I can't believe that out of all the farfetched predictions I made beforehand, she picked the stupidest one. Wait... I'm actually not surprised.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

"Tseng is way too old, he's like a grandfather."

But Aerith was compared to grandmother by Nomura himself! They match!

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Tennyo link=topic=53.msg4880#msg4880 date=1230694940]
So I'm having an interesting debate on another forum. Apparently anything outside of the story such as Ultimanias, guides, etc, are considered fanon, not canon. Even if the writer/author/creater themselves said it, it's still fanon because it wasn't fit into the story somehow.

So this means Dumbledore totally isn't gay...
[/quote]
That is a valid form of criticism, New Criticism. That, no matter what the author says about the work in extra-textual material, it's what you can derive from the work itself that solely matters. Even if that isn't what the author intended, if they couldn't make it appear that way in the work itself then it doesn't matter.

As Ryu said, it wouldn't be 'fanon'. If someone doesn't want to take those things into account, it's their prerogative. But you can't really tell other people they can't either.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=53.msg5001#msg5001 date=1230730643]
That is a valid form of criticism, New Criticism. That, no matter what the author says about the work in extra-textual material, it's what you can derive from the work itself that solely matters. Even if that isn't what the author intended, if they couldn't make it appear that way in the work itself then it doesn't matter.

As Ryu said, it wouldn't be 'fanon'. If someone doesn't want to take those things into account, it's their prerogative. But you can't really tell other people they can't either.
[/quote]

Quoted for truth. It's great foranalyzingthe author's own abilities to portray what they intended, but in a canon debate it's just as useless as personal opinion.

But Aerith was compared to grandmother by Nomura himself! They match!

*steals proof and adds it to the collection*

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

The grandmother comment is from Nojima, isn't it? It comes after Nomura's 'living on' comment in Distance, the making of feature on the AC DVD.

I have the audio for Distance someone, but can't find it and cba getting out the DVD to check it, but I'm confident about what I'm about to say because I've said it so much. Though if anyone can point me towards somewhere with it online, that'd be cool

???????AC??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

The original (or a paraphrase) of the 'Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud' bit. Cloud sees Aerith several times during AC, but that isn't because her consciousness is actually there, but he sees her because the consciousness of the dead is within the living. It's a general statement, not specifying Cloud or Aerith (obviously they're included, since that's what they're talking about, but they aren't the only ones).

This, even if you use the English translation, doesn't seem to mesh with the idea that Aerith can somehow 'manifest' herself freely. I don't particularly care for the idea in general, because the impact of her death lessens as she just shows up everywhere at will. But that states that the reason Cloud and the children can see her is because she's a part of them now.

If Aerith lives on inside of Cloud, why is she 'manifesting' in a field in the middle of nowhere? Surely she'd be able to appear somewhere more reasonable and closer. Or meaningful, like the church or something.

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Ryushikaze link=topic=53.msg4886#msg4886 date=1230695742]
[quote author=Goodbye Charlie link=topic=53.msg4849#msg4849 date=1230686182]
Have you proof of that? Because honestly, I think I, Bender Goodbye Charlie, turn Ryu on. I've heard of this RyuxCleri shipping but it's not canon. Where's the proofz? I mean, Clerii are so not interested - you can tell. Do you see them touching each others hands? Giving long meaningful stares? No. And I'm willing to argue this point for an entire decade [/LTD]
[/quote]

Not to ruin the LTD fun, but before you begin, do I get a say in this at all?[/quote]

Does Cloud in the LTD? I rest my case.

Come to think of it, where is this forum? Sounds like someone's abusing the notion of what is and is not canon, and I get to force choke a bitch.

It's a brave new world Ryu where fans are looking to absolutely refine minute detail to explicit references to ensure their series of events can go undisputed. The art of drama dies in the hands of the fanon crowd.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=53.msg5001#msg5001 date=1230730643]
[quote author=Tennyo link=topic=53.msg4880#msg4880 date=1230694940]
So I'm having an interesting debate on another forum. Apparently anything outside of the story such as Ultimanias, guides, etc, are considered fanon, not canon. Even if the writer/author/creater themselves said it, it's still fanon because it wasn't fit into the story somehow.

So this means Dumbledore totally isn't gay...
[/quote]
That is a valid form of criticism, New Criticism. That, no matter what the author says about the work in extra-textual material, it's what you can derive from the work itself that solely matters. Even if that isn't what the author intended, if they couldn't make it appear that way in the work itself then it doesn't matter.[/quote]

Oh, I dearly hate new criticism, or at least I hate it when people use it as an excuse to ignore things. Looking at a text for the text is fine, but that doesn't give you complete abandon to completely disregard author statements.
I mean, we accept the liner notes for LotR and other middle earth productions, for H.P.'s work, etc.
Personally, I blame the postmodernist literary movement and their idea that all ideas are just as valid as the other and all things are subjective.

As Ryu said, it wouldn't be 'fanon'. If someone doesn't want to take those things into account, it's their prerogative. But you can't really tell other people they can't either.

Specifically, their version, without those things is a fanon, or 'fan canon'. Everyone has their own, and it sometimes makes Vs Debates screwy.
It also makes people hate me when I use Lucasart's established canon policy in debates.

[quote author=Goodbye Charlie link=topic=53.msg5033#msg5033 date=1230750032]Does Cloud in the LTD? I rest my case.[/quote]

I didn't think so, but I just wanted to make sure. You may continue vigorously debating over whether or not it is you and I or myself and the Clerii that is the OTP of the internet.

It's a brave new world Ryu where fans are looking to absolutely refine minute detail to explicit references to ensure their series of events can go undisputed. The art of drama dies in the hands of the fanon crowd.

Agreed.
Granted, sometimes, some things NEED to be excised from Canon (Glares menacingly at Karen Traviss's Star Wars and Gears of War novels), but we, sadly, don't get a say in that.
Though at least SW's policy already provides.

Oh, and yeah, Hito, it's from the AC making of documentary, right after the lives on line, but I think it's still Nomura speaking. Either way, though.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Balthea link=topic=53.msg5002#msg5002 date=1230731501]Quoted for truth. It's great for analyzing the author's own abilities to portray what they intended, but in a canon debate it's just as useless as personal opinion.[/quote]

This was my argument. The only thing such thinking is good for is literary analysis. We shouldn't need to be told extra stuff as an afterthought. But if we are, it can not be regarded as fanon; just poor writing.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Well, sometimes the information just can't be put into the work, and you are always going to get people interpreting things wrong. It's not always the author's fault. Take FFVII for example, I don't really think it's their fault that so many people wanted Aerith and Cloud to be together so they completely ignore that Cloud and Tifa are stated in the game to be in love with each other, and express this love to one another.

So, if an author comes out and makes something more clear, or ends a dispute, it can be because they didn't do a good job, but it's not always the case.

Personally, I blame the postmodernist literary movement and their idea that all ideas are just as valid as the other and all things are subjective.

Ya, that bugs the crap out of me too. If you can't logically back up your idea that just magically popped into your head, then your idea isn't worth as much (or anything) as someone who can back theirs up.

 

[Tir McDohl]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Was there something, I believe it was in RF, where one of the VII team talked about how they put extra effort into making Tifa a good balance to Cloud in AC? Does anyone have that quote in context?

I think I remember coming across something like that a while ago, but I can't find it anymore.

I don't like being a bother, but this is the only place I know of where the majority of the people seem to know their stuff.

 

[Fighter]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Reunion Files Scans

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Don't worry, it's not a bother at all.

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

^Now there's an uncommon post. lol
The thing we tried to reiterate (over and over, it seemed) is that it's not about which couple you prefer, but which is best supported by canon. So Aerina, if you prefer Clerith that's cool in my book. I think they're kinda cute in concept. It's just, the girls we were debating there seemed to think preference = canon, and for story sticklers that's aggravating.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

This is the thing. LTD is not about 'which pairing is cuter', but which pairing is supported as canon by the creators.
If someone likes to pair Cloud with Aerith, its pretty much fine by me. As long as they dont try to rewrite the original story and impose their twisted views on other people.

If you read at least three threads at pink forum, you`ll instantly come to impression that those peope either very biased or have totally no idea what they`re talking about.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Aerina link=topic=53.msg5183#msg5183 date=1230830066]
I used to be a Clerith, and people who have seen me on other forums under my old username of "Raven" would proberly know this. I remember debating against Ryushikaze on the original LTD thread on FFF haha *cringe* My reason for this being was pretty much because I simply prefered the CloudxAerith pairing, and because I had only played through the first disk of the game (I only got into VII last summer). And certain websites are very good at warping your naive views on the game before you've progressed too far into it...[/quote]

Oh, let's not beat about the bush, DesFul and Clerith.com are silly monkey propaganda websites.
There. I said it.

However, after getting farther into the game, playing/watching the rest of the compilation etc, my view started to wain, and I found myself losing faith in the canon view of Clerith.
I was keeping an eye on the LTD on fff, and I have to say that that discussion pretty much sealed the deal and converted me. It was easy to see that the Cloti side had the upper hand by providing offical quotes, facts and figures, and that the Clerith side were simply going with interpretations and seemingly incorrect ones at that.

Not just incorrect, but it seemed deliberately distorted ones as well.

So if anyone who was in that debate is here, i'd like to thank you for helping to change my view and to see the light that is cannon

Canon. One 'n'. And you're welcome. [Takes a small bow] If you have any other needs with sorting the canonical wheat from the fanonical of apochyphal chaff, I hope I could be of service.

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Weird ... I'm getting emailed updates to this thread, but I can't see them here. D: Guess I'll c&p from my email.

Of course, in the 'official script' released by Square back in '97, all the date options went in favor of Tifa and it got the 'high' highwind.

This is the first I've heard of this. There was an official script to the game?

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I assume its referring to the Memorial Album.