The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Isabella]

Hito, what I think they're saying now is that koibito used without another name mentioned (as in the Tifa thing) means it's about personality traits. Or if it is in reference to being someone's beloved, there's no time frame so it could mean Cloud's crush on Tifa as children, or it could mean Barret or Rude or Johnny have a crush on her.

I think the koi(space)bito thing has quietly been dropped.

I wonder ... do "mother figure" and "ally" describe personality when there are no other names mentioned?

 

[Channy]

OOOOHHHHHHHH see when it's dissected and broken down like that to me, I can finally understand it. Despite the fact that the phrases "person who loves" "love unreturned" are overly used and could possibly insinuate a double negative (or at least that's what it seems to me, why else would you constantly reiterate yourself if you're trying to say something else ).

So BASICALLY it boils down to... koi bito = someone who loves/unreturned love and koibito = lover/sweetheart...

See this is why Japanese is so hard to understand, you have many different writing dialects and things that could potentially mean the same thing are different when written in said different dialects. x.x

Thank you hitobitokoibito <3

 

[Isabella]

So BASICALLY it boils down to... koi bito = someone who loves/unreturned love and koibito = lover/sweetheart...

There is no koi bito. That's something some cleriths made up, along with its alternate definition. That's why it's the subject of a lot of mocking around here.

Wasn't sure if you picked that up, or if you thought that quote was legit.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think Channy is trolling now. There's no way you'd read what hitoshura said and say "Koi bito" exists. He just said...that word doesn't exist. There is no such thing.

 

[Channy]

There is no koi bito. That's something some cleriths made up, along with its alternate definition. That's why it's the subject of a lot of mocking around here.

Wasn't sure if you picked that up, or if you thought that quote was legit.

"However, koi bito written in kanji (as it is in Reunion Files), is simply "the person who loves" and offers no answers on whether or not this person's feelings are returned."

This being bolded in its paragraph led me to assume it summarized the paragraph.

Clearly, I didn't read for context.

I think Channy is trolling now. There's no way you'd read what hitoshura said and say "Koi bito" exists. He just said...that word doesn't exist. There is no such thing.

I still think Mako needs to take a chill pill. There's no way that he could give the benefit of the doubt to someone for misreading something, especially after they thanked said person sincerely.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Uh huh...okay.

+1 Benefit of Doubt

 

[Channy]

Try a little harder sweetheart.

 

[Strangelove]

Yar, I wasn't saying there was a 'koi bito'. That whole 'how it's written' argument is silly. I don't think anyone would write it any other way (other than the one used in RF/LW) except for stylistic purposes, but that wouldn't really change the meaning.

 

[Channy]

Okay. See, that's exactly what I was talking about.

The way you kept highlighting on the fact that it's "written differently" and "has different meanings" beat into my mind that this was true... until the last paragraph where you subtly said that this was, in fact, not true.

 

[Dashell]

Well to be fair, it is the job of a Clerith to take any Cloti evidence and make it not... well, not Cloti evidence. I'm sure when they heard about that koibito thing they knew they were screwed so they eventually came up with what you have written there.

Then when it came to Aerith being Cloud's koibito, you bet they backpeddled.

But I have a question

However, koi bito written in kanji (as it is in Reunion Files), is simply "the person who loves" and offers no answers on whether or not this person's feelings are returned.

In reference to Tifa was it written as koi bito or koibito? Same with Aerith, or was it the same way both times?


... also I just found out the person I gave my Sonic site to was involved in some kind of sex scandal.... great... now I can never go back there... "oh look there's Nique, the girl who gave our site to a pervert."

 

[Isabella]

It's written the same way.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I had gotten wrong that point, then. So it is The guy who killed the cat's opinion, right? Still, this doesn't prove you hate cats.

Exactly, it doesn't prove I hate cats and it shouldn't. It is the feelings of the character being portrayed, not the feelings of the author.

"I suppose there will always be interesting ways for people to explain what they want to believe."

What is it that I believe? I'm really curious, now. Oh, and by the way, I do take it as an offense.

Actually, I honestly thought you understood the point of my analogy and were being sarcastic about how a Clerith could twist the analogy to make it still fit what they wanted to believe, and I was agreeing with the point that I thought you were making. I give people too much credit, it seems.

WHAT? How could you build up my interest like that only to kill the poor cat :cries:

Because I am a cruel authoress. =)

Do you think that I hate cats?

Yes, ...

...lol, you think I hate cats? x.x Because I wrote a story about a guy who hates cats? Are you serious?

...but the question isn't, "Do you think Nojima loves Cloud?" it's "Do you think Aerith loves Cloud?" So it's... not a good example I'm afraid... in fact... I don't even understand what your post had to do with someone saying Aerith loved Cloud.

I think the point you WANT to make is that just because Aerith's feelings is that Cloud is her koibito, it doesn't mean Cloud feels the same way.

Wow, I really didn't think this would be lost on so many people. Okay, let me break it down even further and explain.

Actually, I may have complicated things by simplifying the question to "Does Ravynne hate cats?" It should have remained at "Does Ravynne think that cats are spawn of the devil?"

This can be equated directly to "Does Nojima think that Cloud is Aerith's koibito?"

Tom believes cats are spawn of the devil. Tom was written by Ravynne. Ravynne does not believe cats are spawn of the devil, even though Tom does, which was supposed to be obvious but I suppose I left too much up to the reader's ability to distinguish between author and character.

Aerith believes Cloud is her koibito. Aerith was written by Nojima. Nojima does not believe Cloud is Aerith's koibito, even though Aerith does, which was supposed to be obvious but I suppose they left too much up to the reader's ability to distinguish between author and character.

See how that works now? (Bold and italics provided to more clearly show where the two statements reflect one another.)

Remember when you were in school and took those standardized tests and you'd get those questions that were like "APPLE is to RED as BANANA is to... a) purple, b) blue, c) yellow, d) orange"? It's just like that. It's called an analogy.

apple:banana
red:yellow
Tom:Aerith
Ravynne:Nojima (lulz)
Aerith's belief that Cloud is her koibito:Tom's belief that cats are spawn of the devil

The way you kept highlighting on the fact that it's "written differently" and "has different meanings" beat into my mind that this was true... until the last paragraph where you subtly said that this was, in fact, not true.

Did you notice that it was all in a quote box and he was in fact quoting something that someone else said? =| Actually that's remarkably similar to the case of the author stating a character's beliefs and the audience believing the author feels what the character does. Good lord, this is getting humorous now.

Show of hands, how many people have ever picked up a book?

 

[Dashell]

Haha, those crazy pinkers. You know I heard a saying once, "When you're wrong, admit it, when you're right shut up."

If they're going to claim this koibito thing with Aerith is Clerith proof, they first have to admit they were wrong about the time it was used for Tifa.

No Ravynne, you did a fine example it was just lost on me. In case you didn't notice... I'm sure a lot of you picked up on it... I know Mako has... it's that I'm... you know... just a tiny bit... slow.

It went over my head. But I appreciate you guys being patient with me as I know how it can be to deal with... slower people sometimes.

 

[Dashell]

In other words, regardless of what your generic English<--->Japanese dictionary says, the true definition of koi bito is not "sweetheart"

BTW is that true?

 

[Ⓐaron]

No, like everything else on that page it's bullshit.

 

[Dashell]

I'll have to include that in my essay. Thanks.

Oh and Ravynne, I was joking when I said yes BTW.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Oh and Ravynne, I was joking when I said yes BTW.

Oh okay. x.x I just can't tell anymore... I thought Alex was joking, too, and ended up insulting him, lol.

Channy, are you really trolling us? D: Because not only is that not cool, but it doesn't do much justice for the Clerith argument, either.

 

[Channy]

No Ravynne, you did a fine example it was just lost on me. In case you didn't notice... I'm sure a lot of you picked up on it... I know Mako has... it's that I'm... you know... just a tiny bit... slow.

It went over my head. But I appreciate you guys being patient with me as I know how it can be to deal with... slower people sometimes.

Yah sure, they're patient with you, but when something goes over my head, it's because I'm trolling.

Also Rav, I didn't take into account the quote tag... I do this sometimes.

Edit: ^

No I'm not actually. Just because I may not have the brain capacity of Makogel over there, or can't speak Japanese like hitobito, or sit through Clerith sites and dissect shit patiently like Cloti's, doesn't mean I'm trolling.

I'm just fucking stupid. And despite having stated this several times already in the thread, Mako will still make assumptions to try and warn me because he doesn't like me.

 

[Celes Chere]

And what's wrong with Imagination Land?

Nothing. I understand that all Cleriths live there.

Spoiler

Jk.

. I liked Vendel.

Whaaat? Where's Vennie?

take any Cloti evidence and make it not... well, not Cloti evidence.

Could that be done with the use of logic and facts? As in not bashing Tifa's character, and claiming that Cloud rejects her and lives with her out of pity?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Show of hands, how many people have ever picked up a book?

**waves hand frantically** "Hop on Pop" is a CLASSIC, people!

Also, yes, you are giving people in general too much credit, but couple that with the 'wax paper' view the internet provides and often impression/context/intent becomes blurred. There are also language barriers here too, so what may seem obvious to some (as your example was to me) may be unclear to others.

Your point is valid, and although the story CoLW was written by Nojima (Capt. Cloti himself) it is not indicative to his personal feelings or his standpoint on Aerith/Cloud as a couple.

It's Ifalna's lust for Cloud that is clearly displayed.

For some people, that's a hard concept to grasp.

 

[Dashell]

Could that be done with the use of logic and facts? As in not bashing Tifa's character, and claiming that Cloud rejects her and lives with her out of pity?

Okay that was weird, I somehow read something about snot the first time I read this.

And I can't defend everything they do, nor will I try, but if you're Clerith, chances are you're gonna bash Tifa. between you and me I think Tifa likes it

Yah sure, they're patient with you, but when something goes over my head, it's because I'm trolling.

That is funny considering I actually did troll here the other day XD

Some people here have known me a long time and are used to it. I'm not sure how long you've been around... for that matter, Mako were you on ACF?

 

[Channy]

Ifalna's robbing the cradle a bit. But while we're there, there needs to be more inclusive material of her in the next compilation title. That's what VII has been missing this whole time. Moar Ifalna.

Nojima's Cloti? Since when?

I don't think I bash Tifa all the time. Not as much as I could.

ESPECIALLY with that new doujinshi in the Faith club. >>

 

[Ⓐaron]

Mako were you on ACF?

Mako was an admin on ACF

 

[Dashell]

Really? I don't remember XD I probably didn't run into him too much. I guess the only two I remember are Kristen and Michelle and there's a reason for that. (nokristenbashingplzshesmyfriendkthx)

On the slow thing though, just ask Ryushikaze. He and I talked on AIM the other night and I kept having to ask him to explain stuff.
Basically:

Right Ryu?

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

It's Ifalna's lust for Cloud that is clearly displayed.

This. I'm afraid we've all lost sight of the real love story being told here, and that is Clifalna.

I'm just fucking stupid. And despite having stated this several times already in the thread, Mako will still make assumptions to try and warn me because he doesn't like me.

Or maybe we just think you're smarter than what we're seeing. That's probably a positive.