The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Lily Ella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Isabella link=topic=53.msg7718#msg7718 date=1231820762]He was the one who asserted that spiritual sex is much more meaningful and satisfying than physical sex. How he tested that theory, I'm not sure.[/quote]
He tested it in a flower field on THE ASS-TRAL PLANE, duh!

@their version of fucked-up Cloud: I guess that's their fantasy man? A person who is hopelessy devoted to them, and only them, and doesn't give a damn about anyone else but them? Personally, I'd like a person who loves me, yet who is good to other people is well... but, what do I know? I'm just a slutty, naggy, and selfish Tifa fan.

 

[Lily Ella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Lily Ella link=topic=53.msg7750#msg7750 date=1231836232]
[quote author=Isabella link=topic=53.msg7718#msg7718 date=1231820762]He was the one who asserted that spiritual sex is much more meaningful and satisfying than physical sex. How he tested that theory, I'm not sure.[/quote]
He tested it in a flower field on THE ASS-TRAL PLANE, duh!

@their fucked-up version of Cloud: I guess that's their fantasy man? A person who is hopelessy devoted to them, and only them, and doesn't give a damn about anyone else but them? Personally, I'd like a person who loves me, yet who is good to other people is well... but, what do I know? I'm just a slutty, naggy, and selfish Tifa fan.
[/quote]

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Is Angelalex's prose still as purple as ever?

[quote author=Lily Ella link=topic=53.msg7750#msg7750 date=1231836232]@their version of fucked-up Cloud: I guess that's their fantasy man? A person who is hopelessy devoted to them, and only them, and doesn't give a damn about anyone else but them? Personally, I'd like a person who loves me, yet who is good to other people is well... but, what do I know? I'm just a slutty, naggy, and selfish Tifa fan.
[/quote]
I'm reminded of the "if Cloud and Tifa did get together in the Highwind scene, why would she say she misses everyone else afterwards?" thing. As if being with someone automatically means you don't ever need or want to see another person again. (Even if you've just went on an epic journey with them, and are about to fight some guy trying to destory your planet.)

Like teenagers who expect their boy/girlfriend to spend all their time with them or something. That would be clingy.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=53.msg7805#msg7805 date=1231865182]
Is Angelalex's prose still as purple as ever?[/quote]

Purple, bruised, and bleeding, hitobito.

I'm reminded of the "if Cloud and Tifa did get together in the Highwind scene, why would she say she misses everyone else afterwards?" thing. As if being with someone automatically means you don't ever need or want to see another person again. (Even if you've just went on an epic journey with them, and are about to fight some guy trying to destory your planet.)

Like teenagers who expect their boy/girlfriend to spend all their time with them or something. That would be clingy.

Can I just mention that for quite some time now, I have suspected the Pinkers have not only been playing an insertion game, but also a projection game as well? IE- regardless of what is actually there, they ascribe traits they don't like onto characters to justify the dislike.
Of course, that's not even touching the shiny mirror effect that seems to be going on...

But yeah, why shoudln't Tifa miss everyone else? Being in a relationship doesn't mean your friends suddenly vanish, or that you cannot miss them, or that they wouldn't be of great assistance in helping you kick the ass of the long haired bishy who wants to zat the planet.

Oh, speaking of...
[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ1eMu3Li_8&feature=related[/nomedia]

We've mentioned the 'It'd run the same if it was Barrett instead of Aerith' train of thought with regards to the death scene before, but it also runs the same if Sephiroth is there instead of Cloud.

Addendum: There needs to be a patch to switch Sephy and Aerith, and switch out the final boss (and perhaps some FMVs for lulz) as well.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Is Angelalex's prose still as purple as ever?

It was actually his quote that I posted here yesterday xd;

But yeah, why shoudln't Tifa miss everyone else? Being in a relationship doesn't mean your friends suddenly vanish, or that you cannot miss them, or that they wouldn't be of great assistance in helping you kick the ass of the long haired bishy who wants to zat the planet.

Pinkers fear common sense. Or so it seems.

And the video is... amusing, really. I just imagined Seph and Aerith also switching their roles... nice

...

Random: If Cloud's crush on Tifa was indeed "dim" and insignificant, why would SE single Tifa out in Cloud's speech to Seph, along with his mother? Makes no sense.

 

[A]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Random: If Cloud's crush on Tifa was indeed "dim" and insignificant, why would SE single Tifa out in Cloud's speech to Seph, along with his mother? Makes no sense.

And before he handed the black materia to Sephiroth, he said, "I'm sorry, Tifa-san," which basically is saying that in a polite way in Japanese. And then Tifa goes on saying, "Cloud... you're too nice." (which is weird, because he acted like an ass throughout the game).

He meant the promise, of course And him wanting to be her hero.

 

[juniper]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I have some questions, if that's okay.

"I think that part of the reason we decided to have Kadaj's base in the Forgotten City is because it's the one place that Cloud avoids. But at the same time, perhaps he's drawn to it. There's a sort of hidden meaning to it, with the maternal essence of Aerith that lingers there." (Nomura)

Who is the bolded part talking about? I was told that since it's in Kadaj's profile, that it means he is drawn to the Forgotten City. But, just because it's Kadaj's, doesn't mean they can't discuss another character or their feelings. They just told us that Cloud avoids it. To me, they're talking about Cloud. He avoids it, "but at the same time" is drawn to it.

They mean Cloud, right?

Also, in that quote about Aerith "seeing through to the essence of Cloud", is "essence" the right translation?

I might have some more questions later, but that's it for the moment.

 

[A]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

"I think that part of the reason we decided to have Kadaj's base in the Forgotten City is because it's the one place that Cloud avoids. But at the same time, perhaps he's drawn to it. There's a sort of hidden meaning to it, with the maternal essence of Aerith that lingers there." (Nomura)

He's drawn to it because of Aerith's maternal essence (a motherly essence that draws Cloud in), not because he likes to dream about Aerith and recall their beautiful memories together; but at the same time, it's a reminder to him, which brings up this quote:
"The happier he is now, the more tormented he gets about memories of his past."

Also, in that quote about Aerith "seeing through to the essence of Cloud", is "essence" the right translation?

I'm not sure, but in the Lifestream guide, it says this; "Even though Aerith perceived that Cloud had lost sight of his true self, she still has great affection for him. As an Ancient, Aerith had planned to accomplish the mission. On the one hand, her last concern is Cloud."
And also, even if it was, she found the essence of Cloud, that doesn't mean that she discovers who the real Cloud is; if she found the essence of Cloud, that could just mean that she found a Cloud in the fake mask he wore, but she never got the chance to find out who he really was. Reasons can back up with this statement:

In Maiden Who Travels the Planet, Aerith states that "she finally gets to know the real Cloud."

Hope I helped if you want a more thorough answer on how Aerith never knew the real Cloud, you can just look at crack's essay. Very convincing and totally right.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I think it's Kadaj. It's more 'hidden aspect [of the character]' than 'hidden meaning'. The original text doesn't have that bit so close to the one about Cloud, so it doesn't look so much like it's talking about Cloud. It specifically mentions 'drawn by Aerith's maternal essence'.

Then again, Cloud did call Aerith 'mother'

For that second on, it's "essence" as in "A basic trait or set of traits that define and establish the character of something".

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It could be either, though I agree it's most likely Kadaj- mr. Mommy issues- who is drawn to the maternal essence of Aerith.

Not that it referring to Cloud helps the pinkers, what with it specifically referring to being drawn by the maternal essence.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It is following on from talking about Kadaj selecting his base, so that as another reason makes sense.

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

He meant the promise, of course And him wanting to be her hero.

Ha, speaking of this, apparently only Tifa supports the promise and wanting Cloud to be her hero. Cloud was somehow forced for all of these years to try and keep the promise and protect her. No wonder they think she's a nag.

In Maiden Who Travels the Planet, Aerith states that "she finally gets to know the real Cloud."

It's more like she finally aware of what the real Cloud acts like. If memory serves me right, Aerith saw who the real Cloud was after Tifa patched him up again. But she never met the real Cloud personally.

It specifically mentions 'drawn by Aerith's maternal essence'.

I think it makes sense for both Kadaj, and Cloud. I always assumed they meant Cloud, but I never understood why Clerith's mentioned that Cloud was drawn to that area. Did they not see the maternal part?

 

[A]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Ha, speaking of this, apparently only Tifa supports the promise and wanting Cloud to be her hero. Cloud was somehow forced for all of these years to try and keep the promise and protect her. No wonder they think she's a nag.

Actually... he was strong armed into the promise, but Nomura has stated that he keeps the promise very important to his heart. Oh yeah. And I might have forgotten to mention that in the Lifestream that was his one wish he had locked inside his heart. He must be embarassed that Tifa knows.
And Aerith had to strong arm him in the date. I wonder why Clerith's don't see that.

I think it makes sense for both Kadaj, and Cloud. I always assumed they meant Cloud, but I never understood why Clerith's mentioned that Cloud was drawn to that area. Did they not see the maternal part?

Most likely not. They don't mention anything about Cloud calling her a mother. They do mention, however, Tifa being a mother to Cloud - a naggy one to be.

 

[Shadowfox]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=53.msg7805#msg7805 date=1231865182]I'm reminded of the "if Cloud and Tifa did get together in the Highwind scene, why would she say she misses everyone else afterwards?" thing. As if being with someone automatically means you don't ever need or want to see another person again. (Even if you've just went on an epic journey with them, and are about to fight some guy trying to destory your planet.)

Like teenagers who expect their boy/girlfriend to spend all their time with them or something. That would be clingy.
[/quote]

Some of the C/A fanatics seem to have an "all or nothing" view of relationships. To them, love isn't enough; it's got to be TRUE LOVE, or else it's meaningless.

Like, for example, if your boyfriend truly loves you, then his entire world must revolve around you and only you.

Or, if you and your boyfriend are in love, that means that the two of you must be lovers and nothing else. Being friends means that you're not entirely lovers and so therefore your love is less than true.

Or, if you're in a real relationship, then all problems, troubles, anxieties, doubts, etc. must instantly be melted away by teh power of your love.

... and so on.

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Or, if you're in a real relationship, then all problems, troubles, anxieties, doubts, etc. must instantly be melted away by teh power of your love.

Wow, I wish I lived in their world.

Or, if you and your boyfriend are in love, that means that the two of you must be lovers and nothing else. Being friends means that you're not entirely lovers and so therefore your love is less than true.

: Since I love DMC so much... Nero is described as a brother, friend, and lover to Kyrie. So it makes sense that Tifa would be described as a Mother, Lover, and Fighter. I'm sure in other games, actually in other real-life instances, one can be referred to as a friend, and still be someone's love interest. Unless you don't play other games, or don't live in the real world. Sometimes, I wonder if the Clerith's on those Forums actually live there, in their own little pink world... I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Since I've seen Dissidia's ending now, I went back and looked at that stuff.

Spoiler

If the flowerfield appears when Squall does, and in FFVII's opening Rinoa is in a field when she lets it go, can't that be the reason for it?

Onion Knight doesn't really get anything special, Tidus and Zidane just get an action. Bartz gets a twig and Tina some kind of spore? I don't know if those are important in their games. So it's not as if every character gets something.

And Cloud isn't holding a materia because that's some special Aerith item (like Squall catching a feather). That's his crystal, which represents FFVII. They're all holding the crystals that represent their games.

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

But you're viewing it through the eyes of a biased cloti. You're missing all the clues that point the way to The Truth, man.

 

[Tir McDohl]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Woah, I just looked at this crazy Clerith site, and they provided an...interpretation of what Cloud's speech to Sephy after Aerith's death meant. :-X

Also, during Aerith's death scene, Cloud's statement of "What about us... what are WE supposed to do?" For all of you who don't get that line, let me explain with an excerpt from the editorial "What about US...?"

"Cloud is speaking of he and Aerith in the first person plural the same way that couples do. Some people argue that Cloud does not mean he and Aerith as he says this. They interpret this phrase to mean that Cloud is asking how the group is going to fight Sephiroth without Aerith, since she told Cloud in the Sleeping Forest that only a survivor of the Cetra can do it. However, this interpretation doesn't fit the context of the passage at all. Cloud is in the midst of grief and shock over her death, while he is clutching her body close to him with his head bowed over her. He is in the midst of talking about his own pain and the loss of Aerith. Why would Cloud suddenly switch topic to ask how the group is supposed to fight Sephiroth without Aerith?"

Also, according to Shadow Spirit, a Japanese descendant, Aly is correct about the "What about US" statement. In his interview with Aly, SS comments on the Japanese version of FFVII:

"When Cloud says 'What about US? What are WE supposed to do?' in Aerith's death scene, the phrase is directed to Cloud and Aerith in a personal sense, almost like a talk between him and her. The language usage in this scene is painful, soft, and personal, instead of Cloud's usual rough manner of speech. Although he doesn't indicate love in and of itself, it's the only scene in the game where Cloud shows a soft side, so it's pretty much sure that Aerith was very important to him and more than just a friend. Aerith is the only person who captured Cloud's attention like this in the game. Since your actions reveal who you love in Japan, then his feelings for Aerith are suggested in this scene."

Also, um, this ??? :

When Cloud approached Aerith on the altar where she was praying, he waved everyone else away. Does this remind you of anything? Well, it should, because it is the exact same thing Vincent did when he approached Lucrecia beneath the waterfall. Vincent wanted a few moments to speak alone with the woman he loved. Cloud is no different. Doesn't the fact that he wants a moment alone with Aerith imply that she is something more than a friend to him? Doesn't the fact that his friends allow him to approach her alone imply that they are aware of how he feels for Aerith? Tifa was Aerith's friend, too, so why wasn't she allowed to pass? If Cloud was a mere friend to Aerith, then why was he singled out to approach her alone?

Butchery! Oh, it's so painful... :'(

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Tifa was Aerith's friend, too, so why wasn't she allowed to pass? If Cloud was a mere friend to Aerith, then why was he singled out to approach her alone?

Maybe Cloud isn't a retard, and sensed the danger and didn't want Tifa to get her head chopped off like what almost happened in the past.

Just a thought, though.

 

[Tir McDohl]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Yeah. Cloud said he "knew in his soul" that Sephiroth was nearby, so wasn't he just being cautious?

Or maybe...they didn't want to have to explain why no one else was in the FMV besides Cloud? Hehe.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I think that whole '"what are us supposed to do" is about Cloud and Aerith' is kind of reading stuff into the lines.

[quote author=Isabella link=topic=53.msg7973#msg7973 date=1231898735]
But you're viewing it through the eyes of a biased cloti. You're missing all the clues that point the way to The Truth, man.
[/quote]
I lost my prescription pink glasses D:

Spoiler

I can see why people think that (and for other bits of the game), but I don't think that's the only answer. There's a yellow and white field in FFVIII as well, where Squall and Rinoa talk.

Given that Cloud's follows on from Squall's, when that field first appears, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the field might be there because of Squall. And Cloud just got 'not interested' and shouldering his sword.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

'What are we' IE- The not dead, the mourners.

Seriously, toss Zack, Barrett, Marlene, in place of Aerith, his reaction reads the same. Hell, put Sephy in place of Cloud and you don't alter the tone of the scene, outside of the inherent hilarity in Sephy talking to himself.

Well of course he's not interested in Squall, He already has Firi. DUH.

Addendum: Taking a look at the FFVIII ending again, the Dissidia ending

Spoiler

is almost certainly a reference to that ending, as A: it appears to Squall first B: It has the same kind of yellow and white flowers as in the field where Squall and Rinoa made their promise (though the exact type can't be particularly determined), but furthermore C: There are feathers and pink petals floating about everyone's head, just as how the petals and feather shoot up around Rinoa in the FFVIII ending after she finds Squall.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

A new scene for Cloud and Tifa?...
From the latest V-Jump:

Not sure if much info was revealed, though =)

edit; I wonder if the pinkers are going to show up in our debate threads on NC anytime soon.

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

^Looks like it might be when she gets on back of his bike. Wonder if there'll be any new dialogue.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

"Don't touch me! NOTHING GIVES YOU THAT RIGHT!"

While he goes back to stroking a flower.