The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[OneWingedDemon]

Crawlin out from my Supernatural marathon, I just realized that if I apply Cleris standards for proofz of love to this show, I end up with buttloads if INCEST

Complete with dead body-hugging/speeches and soul-selling for the other. Just sayin

 

[Ryushikaze]

That maybe true but when you have "undying feelings" for someone it's love in a romantic sense.

I mean, my friend is reading this over my shoulder and she thinks it's preposterous some of you think otherwise.

Does your friend realize that we're speaking about a japanese phrase in which these undying feelings are SET APART from love?

With that mindset you can pass off Uematsu talking about being influenced by Cloud's smile "to Tifa" as rubbish because it's never been stated in an Ultimania or a guide book.

But A: Was stated in an officially approved feature on the same DVD as the movie, and B: isn't a question about the motivations of the character, but rather on the meaning of a song by the person who wrote it. And C: We also have the script to back it up, come to think of it.

I mean the translator who probably doesn't give a shit about the LTD, wants to do his job right and get paid.

But there is none in this case, just Satsu or whoever the Weaboo du jour is.

But why would his feelings for Aerith go away? It's never indicated that they did, in fact we're lead to believe the contrary.

Yes, but we're not led to believe, especially in light of the plot twist, that those are love. We are led to think that they might be, only for all that to get dashed to the rocks later on.

Oh koibito is such a kuffufle.

Tifa is a koibito (of Cloud's).
Cloud is a koibito to Aerith.

So, perhaps Cloud was Aerith's koibito and then Tifa became his koibito once he returned to normal and realised his feelings for her.

Otherwise we'll have to take it that Cloud is dating both or Aerith is just completely and utterly deluded.

Deluded? No. Confused? In denial? Unsure of things? Sure. Especially since she too might be suffering from the eroding affect of the LS.

Something said by the creators is challenging otherwise.

No, something said by the creators says he has feelings which do not die which are distinguished from love, which you take to challenge otherwise.

That doesn't mean he can't have the remnant of the romantic feelings he once had for Aerith.

If he had any.

Fixxed

Well, yes, but I mean IF YOU MUST.
By which I mean if you can't speak JP.
Another step on that path is admitting you can't actually speak the language.

 

[Isabella]

Just breezed through the last few pages, but I just have to say this: Even if "undying feelings" had exclusively romantic connotations in English (and it doesn't), that doesn't automatically transfer to Japanese, as hito has illustrated with other common phrases time and time again (the engraved in one's heart thing, for example). I'm not the first person to say that, but it doesn't seem to be sinking in.

 

[Eerie]

No, I'd disregard promotional blurbs for promotional blurbs. Nomura has said blatantly misleading and untrue things about upcoming games before.

THIS.

 

[Celes Chere]

Where do Clerii get this element of love?

Their asses?

I need another TLDR post... but this will do for now.

 

[KissTheRain]

A very awkward, shy smile. It was quite a moment for me.

Yes, weren't they just adorable though. I love awkward Cloud, that's who he is at heart. <3

Ah so you see Cloud and Tifa smile at each other? And you admit his smile for her is different than for the children?

Yes, yes I did see it and I wouldn't say it was "that" different, but he kinda gave her the look/smile saying "did I fix everything?" or something like that. Idk...

Yes, I'm sure that's the case KTR, and not your fear of the severe intellectual beatdown to come.

Riight...well I just have other things going for me in life or online besides endless, pointless debate but it is still fun.

Does your friend realize that we're speaking about a japanese phrase in which these undying feelings are SET APART from love?

Well, wouldn't that exclude Cloud and Tifa realizing their "feelings" for each other on your debate if the word feelings fails to mean love?

 

[Celes Chere]

Well, wouldn't that exclude Cloud and Tifa realizing their "feelings" for each other on your debate if the word feelings fails to mean love?

We know that Tifa for sure loves Cloud though. So if they both realized their feelings, it hints a lot more than a friendship, especially since the quote goes like this:
"They realize their feelings for one another at the end of the game, and live together in AC and DoC"
It seems that living together wasn't just tacked on there for no reason, or to be informative. It goes along with the feelings line rather well. What other feelings for one another could they have realized, especially when Tifa still loves Cloud in AC/DoC? Then, you read the line about Cloud only opening his heart to Tifa, and it makes even more sense.

And again, Cloud said nothing changed since he was a child. And as a child, he loved Tifa. That love never faded.

 

[KissTheRain]

We know that Tifa for sure loves Cloud though. So if they both realized their feelings, it hints a lot more than a friendship

Of course we know Tifa loves Cloud, but then why throughout the compiltation is Tifa referred to as the "childhood friend" if in fact she is more? Realizing feelings for each other does sound like more than friendship because they already knew they were friends, but then again why do they only still call her a friend if she is indeed his gf now?

As for "undying feelings" it also seems to detect more loving feelings imo, also that for a friend you would always still call them a fallen friend, but as for a lover you could keep feelings for them that could leave or stay and the quote is saying they are still there.

Feelings seems to have romantic hints so Cloud is throwing his so called "feelings" out for every girl. I see the manwhore part of Zack still lives in Cloud...<.<

And just so you all know now, i'll be going. I got a couple things to do...

 

[Makoeyes987]

She has been referred to as more than just a childhood friend. I guess the Reunion Files don't count now.

And in the relationship chart, they don't call Aerith a lover either. So I fail to see your point. Undying feelings are just that. Undying feelings. The context of those feelings are not romantic, and just because you have feelings that don't die..it doesn't mean romance. Cloud's hatred for Sephiroth is "undying." So stop trying to equate it to romance.

 

[Celes Chere]

Of course we know Tifa loves Cloud, but then why throughout the compiltation is Tifa referred to as the "childhood friend" if in fact she is more? Realizing feelings for each other does sound like more than friendship because they already knew they were friends, but then again why do they only still call her a friend if she is indeed his gf now?

Here are some quotes for you, separating Tifa from a friend:

Quote: text near image of Cloud and Tifa, in Edge
With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward.

Apart from being Cloud's childhood friend,
she is also the woman who understands him all too well and devotedly supports the mentally-weak side of him. Although she seems spirited and cheerful, she actually has a family-oriented and modest personality, often paying attention to her surroundings.

Quote: text near images of Tifa in the church with Marlene and smiling at her
I want to see Cloud -- Marlene's honest words, which reflected what Tifa felt in her own heart, caused her to smile. The present Tifa isn't just Cloud's childhood friend, but also the mother of the 'family' they were forming in Edge.

Now, why do they call Tifa Cloud's childhood friend? Because that's a fact. It is possible for her to be his childhood friend, and still be his love interest. Cecil and Rosa, Vaan and Penelo- they were childhood friends and lovers as well. If you want to compare it to other games too, Dart and Shana are a good example. In fact, Childhood friends becoming lovers are a popular romance cliche.

I see the manwhore part of Zack still lives in Cloud...<.<

Zack's not a man-whore.
Seeya.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Riight...well I just have other things going for me in life or online besides endless, pointless debate but it is still fun.

So do we. It's just we can give a beatdown so efficiently it takes no time at all.

Well, wouldn't that exclude Cloud and Tifa realizing their "feelings" for each other on your debate if the word feelings fails to mean love?

No. Because in the quote in question, feelings are made distinct from love in the same thought. "The fans have their love and feelings for Aerith. Cloud also has feelings which do not die." In the Mutual feelings, there is no distinction made. FURTHERMORE, we have the context of the Lifestream scene and AC/C to explain what those feelings are. In the lifestream sequence, the only mutual feelings realized are that they've both liked each other since they were kids. In AC/C the feelings expressed towards Aerith are guilt, a desire for forgiveness, etc. Not romantic love.

 

[Vendel]

Well at least we have real discussion going on here.

This is what I'm dealing with on youtube.

I've read that too. She is like a mother to the kids they are taking care of, at least Denzel. But they're still not together. They are just living as a family together. You can read that in Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania too. At least I saw it there.
If I lived with you and we took care of childrens wouldn't&#65279; mean we have to be together

It's the much beloved "I just don't want to believe it" argument. Granted I know not to expect much (if anything). But I will put a crick in my neck from shaking my head.

 

[Strangelove]

Of course we know Tifa loves Cloud, but then why throughout the compiltation is Tifa referred to as the "childhood friend" if in fact she is more? Realizing feelings for each other does sound like more than friendship because they already knew they were friends, but then again why do they only still call her a friend if she is indeed his gf now?

If they came out and said Tifa was his lover, then it would piss off C/A fans and they would stop buying their stuff, so they need to throw bones to C/A.



I'm sure there was some big Clerith hullub about 'feelings' ('omoi') not being romantic, when looking at the various C/T quotes using it. Has this word pulled a koi-bito too?

 

[Ⓐaron]

Gaiz, they call Aerith a 'comrade'.

I think we're missing the important point here.

AVALANCHE are a bunch of filthy commies! Why didn't I see it before.

 

[Isabella]

You'd think two platonic friends, one in love with the other, deciding to spend their lives together and bring up children together would be an unusual enough situation to deserve some kind of commentary within the story.

 

[Vendel]

You'd think two platonic friends, one in love with the other, deciding to spend their lives together and bring up children together would be an unusual enough situation to deserve some kind of commentary within the story.

But we have Cloud's stated undying love for Aerith. Not to mention the creators stated Cloud is Aeriths koibito. And that Denzel is their child.


I mean seriously. Did you even pay attention?

 

[Strangelove]

I mean seriously. Did you even pay attention?

Yes.

But evidently to a different story.

 

[Vendel]

Yes.

But evidently to a different story.

Well your just a rapid biased translator. What do you know?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I've read that too. She is like a mother to the kids they are taking care of, at least Denzel. But they're still not together. They are just living as a family together. You can read that in Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania too. At least I saw it there.
If I lived with you and we took care of childrens wouldn't&#65279; mean we have to be together

Well, Vendel, did make a promise with the poster to save them when they need to be saved, did she fall in love with you, did you reveal your mutual feelings for each other, and then you decided to live together as a family and it be totally not romantic? Because then I'll believe what the poster is saying.

 

[Vendel]

Well, Vendel, did make a promise with the poster to save them when they need to be saved, did she fall in love with you, did you reveal your mutual feelings for each other, and then you decided to live together as a family and it be totally not romantic? Because then I'll believe what the poster is saying.

It's purely platonic. More like a collage roommate situation.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

It's purely platonic. More like a collage roommate situation.

O ttly. I live with this dude and we're raising a family together. Just ignore the fact we also regularly have sex and say "I love you" to each other, and we're JUST LIKE C/T.

 

[Vendel]

O ttly. I live with this dude and we're raising a family together. Just ignore the fact we also regularly have sex and say "I love you" to each other, and we're JUST LIKE C/T.

I'm sorry but we need photographic evidence at the very least to believe you do any sort of filthy disgusting sexual acts. Followed by a legally binding document signed by you, your partner and 5 witnesses.

Otherwise it's all open to interpretation. I just don't want to make any assumptions.

 

[Strangelove]

FFVII is the story of a bunch of eco-terrorist Commies. One literally being called 'Red'. God only knows standards these hippies live their lives by. If they have any standards.

That's why all this college roommate/rival orphanages/flowerfield ghosts-but-not-really-because-hey-they-looked-pretty-solid stuff makes perfect sense. Because the basis of 'sense' has flown off to some strange Twlight Zone-esque land of wierdness.

 

[Ⓐaron]

That's right, the PNs are just using the same standards AVALANCHE themselves use in their day-to-day lives

 

[Isabella]

I really think the people who argue these things must live in some parallel universe. That's the only conclusion I can come to that makes any sense. Either that or they're too young and/or socially inexperienced to recognize universal cues when they see them.