The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Ryushikaze]

You don't have to subscribe to every Clerith belief to prefer it. Just like you don't have to believe Cloud and Tifa had sex under the Highwind to believe in Cloud/Tifa. Some ideas and theories about FFVII couples are bizarro crazy, but some just prefer Cloud with one girl or another.

On the other hand, he may just be a despicable neutral with a gray heart full of neutrality.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Lemme fix that for ya.

 

[Vendel]

On the other hand, he may just be a despicable neutral with a gray heart full of neutrality.

Yeah. Whats with all this relationship stuff? Everyone knows that the LT of FF7 is a twisted maze of ambiguity that no mere mortal can decipher.

Thus we can't prove one way or another who Cloud loves. If anybody.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Yeah. Whats with all this relationship stuff? Everyone knows that the LT of FF7 is a twisted maze of ambiguity that no mere mortal can decipher.

Thus we can't prove one way or another who Cloud loves. If anybody.

That sounds like a challenge to me.

Let's see he spends two weeks traveling with Tifa and Aerith, ignoring both their come-ons (for the most part) in favor of chasing Sephiroth, then he moves in with Tifa, moves back out into Aerith's church, and all the while is still worried about Sephiroth. Not to mention he joined SOLDIER because he idolized Sephy....

I'd say it's obvious Cloud is gagging for it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

WHOA! You betta watch yourself mister...

Thems fightin' words in these parts.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Hey, like it says in one of my siggy links -

1. Cloud spends the entire game ignoring two hot babes who follow him around in order to find Sephiroth. If any man can think of anything other than trying to have a threesome with Aeris and Tifa while camping out with them every night, they must be gay.
2. Cloud didn't kill Sephiroth to avenge Aeris or his hometown. He didn't even do it to save the planet. It was all because Sephiroth refused to go out with Cloud because he was already in an extremely disgusting relationship with his creepy alien mom, and that really pissed Cloud off.
3. Sephiroth repeatedly appears to Cloud with his shirt off, clear signs he's attempting to seduce him.
4. Cloud was lost in the Lifestream for a week thanks to Sephiroth, and came out a babbling nutjob. Who knows what sick, twisted acts Sephiroth made him perform to warp his mind so...
5. Sephiroth is constantly impaling Cloud on his extremely long sword. The innuendo alert is going.
6. In Kingdom Hearts, Sephiroth has one wing. In Kingdom Hearts, Cloud has one wing on the opposite side. They complete each other.
7. Sephiroth asked Cloud what he cherishes so he can take it away from him. Who knew Sephy was the jealous type?
8. Just ONE look at those clothes, and you know it!

Well, either Sephiroth or Zack.

"Cloud emulates Zack when he dies to try and fit his image of an ideal hero. Ergo, Zack is Cloud's ideal man."

 

[Makoeyes987]

1. Cloud spends the entire game ignoring two hot babes who follow him around in order to find Sephiroth. If any man can think of anything other than trying to have a threesome with Aeris and Tifa while camping out with them every night, they must be gay.

Stopped being gay ignoring when he became himself. See the lifestream sequence and under the Highwind.

2. Cloud didn't kill Sephiroth to avenge Aeris or his hometown. He didn't even do it to save the planet. It was all because Sephiroth refused to go out with Cloud because he was already in an extremely disgusting relationship with his creepy alien mom, and that really pissed Cloud off.

Ewww...I'm sure Jenova cells would classify as an STD.

3. Sephiroth repeatedly appears to Cloud with his shirt off, clear signs he's attempting to seduce him.

I won't deny that.

4. Cloud was lost in the Lifestream for a week thanks to Sephiroth, and came out a babbling nutjob. Who knows what sick, twisted acts Sephiroth made him perform to warp his mind so...

True, but we do know what twisted, sick acts Tifa did in the ethereal goo of memories. That's pretty intimate.

5. Sephiroth is constantly impaling Cloud on his extremely long sword. The innuendo alert is going.

Definitely. But something risque happened under the Highwind. I'll leave it at that.

6. In Kingdom Hearts, Sephiroth has one wing. In Kingdom Hearts, Cloud has one wing on the opposite side. They complete each other.

It should be noted Cloud ditches the wing in KH2. I think he realized the implications of the wing and broke it off..in more ways than one.

7. Sephiroth asked Cloud what he cherishes so he can take it away from him. Who knew Sephy was the jealous type?

I did. Look at how he acted when Genesis and Angeal left Shinra.

8. Just ONE look at those clothes, and you know it!

Hey, a man can be comfortable with his sexuality, you know.

 

[Strangelove]

To sedate Vendel

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/vilaeth_0/acplayback.jpg

Spoiler

The place where he awakens---
That is Cloud's Promised Land

As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn't belong here yet.

When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma-- his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realises where he is meant to live. He realises that he was able to forgive himself.

And when he turns around--- "she" is starting to leave. Together with the friend who had given Cloud his life. Cloud no longer has to suffer in loneliness... And so they too go back to where they belong.

Back to the current of life flowing around the planet---.

So there's a book saying that Zack and Aerith go back to the Lifestream, where they are meant to be (it uses the same phrase used in FFIX IIRC, 'the place I'll return to someday'?).

Although I guess you could spin it to be the church = Cloud's Promised Land

But this looks like another case of double standards. AC isn't a Cloti ending because it doesn't end with 'Cloud returning to Seventh Heaven and taking Tifa in his arms'. But it's not like it ended with anything like that for Aerith. They could have had Aerith and Cloud look at each other, then fading into the whitespace again and Cloud and Aerith having a little hug/kiss/spirit!sex.

But instead, Aerith turns her back on him and walks away, and Cloud drives past a field she might or might not actually be in. And that's enough to prove C/A. Flowers being in Seventh Heaven doesn't mean Cloud has gone back there. But not seeing Cloud and Aerith actually meet means nothing negative for C/A?

 

[Vendel]

To sedate Vendal

Vendal? VENDAL?!

 

[Strangelove]

Don't edit my posts to make me look bad, plz.

 

[Vendel]

Don't edit my posts to make me look bad, plz.

BTW that is from the 10 anv Ult right? Not much more official than that.

 

[Isabella]

The place where he awakens---
That is Cloud's Promised Land

Could it be? Cloud's promised land is amongst his family and friends? NOT THE FLOWER FIELD? Oh noez, I'm having a crisis of faith ... fdhfdksfdslfds

Also,

two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him

I thought one of them lived inside of him, and was always with him?

 

[Vendel]

I just had a thought Hito. You need to add Zack on the cover of your "in the past book". Just Tifa might have worked before CC. But now it just doesn't cut it.


Also I'm tempted to do a pinker translation of your scan.

 

[Strangelove]

That was an old pre-CC edition of my book. I'll have to update it with radical new theories of not telling the audience important information and just changing things without warning

Yeah, this is the 10th Anniversary Ultimania (I don't think there's any difference here, but this was from the Revised Edition).

To be literal (because who doesn't love that ), 'no longer with him' was roughly 'have already passed away' (もういなくなってしまっ&#12383. I just thought the other sounded better. Not that the literal one suggests either of them are 'with him', since it talks about them being gone now.

I don't know what to say about that Promised Land thing. 4 years later and I'm still trying to understand how walking away from someone means you're together with them

 

[Isabella]

@Neutrality: IMO, a real neutral is someone who doesn't have an emotional stake in a particular outcome. That does not mean they see NO outcome. In fact, people who willfully see no outcome (because that's how they want it) are anything but neutral.

I'm not just picking on KTR here. I've seen other "neutrals" who say similar things, thus proving themselves anything but neutral. Anyone who, as Vendel said, does the "lalala" thing to see their desired outcome -- whatever that outcome may be -- is not neutral about the material.

Pre-compilation, were people who saw the planet as surviving "Planet shippers"? Or were they simply people who added up the clues and came to that conclusion?

I don't know what to say about that Promised Land thing. 4 years later and I'm still trying to understand how walking away from someone means you're together with them

It's just that it's the first time I've seen a reference to Cloud's actual promised land. It caught me off guard!

 

[Makoeyes987]

GODDAMNIT HITO. You know better!

In order for pinkers to be satisfied and it be legit, you have to be as literal as possible, and make it sound like ENGRISH. Stop trying to make it sound coherent and like english. Because ENGLISH is not capable of conveying the love facts of Cloud and Aerith.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I thought one of them lived inside of him, and was always with him?

Part of the problem with that is the nature of the FF7 world itself. Thanks to the Lifestream and KH and statements from the creators, everything in FF7 is so metaphysical and spiritual it's hard to tell what's meant as a metaphor and what's meant literal. Like, suppose I say "Sephiroth is the embodiment of Cloud's past". Given all he's done to Cloud, could just be a metaphor. Or, depending on how you view their connection in KH and CotL and how Sephiroth sustains himself, it could be taken literally.

There's so much symbolism and spirituality tied into FF7 and its characters now it can be hard to tell what's a metaphor and what's literal.

 

[Isabella]

@Drake: I'm not unsympathetic. Nomura is good at nothing if not double-talk. But, I hope this clears it up for good:

And so they too go back to where they belong.
Back to the current of life flowing around the planet

 

[Strangelove]

Curse my dirty Western ways, thinking things should sound like actual English when you translate into English.

But I can try again. I can do better.

Spoiler

The place of meeting awakening---
That, Promised Land of Cloud.

Sleeping Cloud hears voice. His important, already not there any more pair's voice. They joyfully, like consoling tell Cloud. This is not yet your place.

When he wakes up, there are his nakama. Freed of disease of death, children are there. Tifa and Marlene, and desiring to have him cure the Star Scar by his hand Denzel-- family was waiting. He was wrapped by blessing, and knows the place he must live. He knows the self was able to forgive.

And when he turns his face--- "she" is trying to leave. Together with friend that gave life to Cloud. Already Cloud can end with not worrying in loneliness.... So they also to place they must return.

To inside stream of life that go around star---.

Did I say stream of life? I meant inside Cloud. But only Aerith. Not Zack (no homo).

 

[DrakeClawfang]

@Drake: I'm not unsympathetic. Nomura is good at nothing if not double-talk

Amen to that.

 

[Makoeyes987]

OOHHHH! THANK YOU HITO!!!!

That sounds so good!!!

Could the voice be Aerith?!?!??!

That translation is SOOOO GOOD! EAT THAT CLOTIS!

 

[Frostwave]

Holy Shit!!!!!!

But lately, they use this clapping emoticon. A LOT.

I wonder if they really clap irl when they read posts. lol.

 

[Isabella]

Phew ... that makes so much more sense. Thank you, hito.

Sorta OT, but I watched ACC again the other night and was again struck by how important it is that Cloud be the one to heal Denzel. The kid couldn't just go out in the rain like the rest. It had to be CLOUD who did it, because of its symbolism. /random

^lol. You need the "naggy Tifa" one too. It would be hilarious if you guys actually added those to the list.

 

[Ryushikaze]

@Neutrality: IMO, a real neutral is someone who doesn't have an emotional stake in a particular outcome. That does not mean they see NO outcome. In fact, people who willfully see no outcome (because that's how they want it) are anything but neutral.

A true neutral will gravitate to a conclusion based upon evidence, and likely be able to explain in very simple terms what that evidence is and why it led them to that conclusion.

I'm not just picking on KTR here. I've seen other "neutrals" who say similar things, thus proving themselves anything but neutral. Anyone who, as Vendel said, does the "lalala" thing to see their desired outcome -- whatever that outcome may be -- is not neutral about the material.

Of course, then there are the public neutrals who are privately anything but...

Pre-compilation, were people who saw the planet as surviving "Planet shippers"? Or were they simply people who added up the clues and came to that conclusion?

ttly shippers.

It's just that it's the first time I've seen a reference to Cloud's actual promised land. It caught me off guard!

So, being surrounded by friends and family, free of guilt, Zack and Aerith leaving, and Tifa promising him nookie is Cloud's promised land?
Hell, I'm sure I've said that before in the last few years, but I didn't think it was literally true...

 

[mentaz]

OOHHHH! THANK YOU HITO!!!!

That sounds so good!!!

Could the voice be Aerith?!?!??!

That translation is SOOOO GOOD! EAT THAT CLOTIS!

This thread is starting to scare me