The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

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Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

That's the one I was thinking of :monster:

Since ACF is dead, I can't just copy-paste what I thought was wrong with that. So I'll start anew. I had a cleaner version of that, since that one isn't very smooth, but I can't seem to find it.

For my, and anyone else's, reference, the original:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/vilaeth_0/chocobopetting.jpg

Nojima: Yeah, is that the scene with delicate dialogue?
They liked to insist that 'risqué' wasn't a meaning of the word used here, last I saw.

'Delicate' is a definition of the word (kiwadoi). But denying others exist is just stupid. Here's 4 dictionaries, two Japanese-English and two Japanese-Japanese, saying it means 'risqué, suggestive' as well.

If you think about the larger context and what they mention afterwards, 'suggestive' seems to make more sense.

But at that time, even if we used that dialogue in question, probably none of us had thought it would be a problem like that.
Makes no sense, as the dialogue in question was used in the game already.

They didn't call it a problem or problematic. They call it 'an important, vital thing' (juuyou na koto).

The fact that you have to take a translation of an interview and then decypher what it really says seems wrong to me. These are interviews about a piece of entertainment, not the Dead Sea Scrolls. They shouldn't need going over to explain what they are actually trying to say.

Also, thanks to Google, here's my version (with some extra touching up added just now) :monster: Bask in its readable English:

Kitase: [Masato] Katou also did the cut-scene on the airship, the night before the final battle.

Nojima: Oh, the scene with the risqué line of dialogue? It was Katou who wrote that as well, not me.

- The line "Words aren't the only way to talk someone how you feel," right? That was quite a mature conversation for an FF game.

Kitase: But I remember having to tone down another version that was too intense.

Nojima: The original idea was more extreme. The plan was to have Cloud walk out of the Chocobo stable onboard the Highwind, followed by Tifa leaving while checking around her, but Kitase turned it down. But even given the line in question, I think maybe none of us thought at the time that it was something so important (laughs).
Althought that last line is still a little awkward :monster:

Another problem with this scene in the finished game is the English script. The ellipsis of rejection. In English, it's:

Tifa: "words feelings :monster:"
Cloud: "......."

Which people have taken as meaning he's turning her down or was being cold to her (along with many examples from other scenes/games showing how ....... = do not want). But it's meant to be:

Tifa: "words feelings :monster:"
Cloud: "Tifa......"

On my searchings, I managed to find a version I did on a Clerith site, complete with dissecting the meanings of 'risqué/suggestive' and how implying 'lewd, improper sex' doesn't mean love. But again, this is fiction. People having sex, in fiction, usually means something important about their relationship.
 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

That makes a whole lot more sense =D

It's not like I believed the particular Clerith at the time, because given the context of the whole scenario, it's pretty stupid to take "...... = do not want" if you ask me. Though I wish the English version did have "Tifa..." :duhard:
 

Isabella

Your Mom
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

People having sex, in fiction, usually means something important about their relationship.
THIS. When you're telling a story with a love triangle, and you strongly imply that two points of the triangle have sex at the climax (pun totally intended :monster:) of the story, in a moment where everyone's deciding what's most important/worth fighting for ... how the hell is that sex meaningless? What plausible interpretation would allow for this?

As for the ellipses of doom, the whole thing doesn't make sense unless you make Tifa into a complete doormat. She's snuggled up next to him in the morning, saying "please give me more time" or whatevah, after he just outright rejected her? That makes both Cloud and Tifa pathetic.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

...actually, I'm pretty sure that I played the game and Cloud DID say "....Tifa..." before the fade out. Instead of "lolsilence:monster:"
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I haven't played the English one in years, and most of the stuff I look at know is about the Japanese version, so I don't know. I just take the word of people who use it as evidence :monster:

[quote author=ariesmoon link=topic=53.msg935#msg935 date=1228592925]
It's not like I believed the particular Clerith at the time, because given the context of the whole scenario, it's pretty stupid to take "...... = do not want" if you ask me. Though I wish the English version did have "Tifa..." :duhard:
[/quote]
Since you can change the names, perhaps there was some kind of bug in the code. The game couldn't retrive the name for 'Tifa', and just leaves it blank?

[QUOTE author=Isabella]... how the hell is that sex meaningless? What plausible interpretation would allow for this?[/QUOTE]
When it's anything to do with Tifa :monster:
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

If there was a bug, a more plausible thing to have been put there would be something like '%s.....' or something.
 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Somehow, Tifa saying another form of, "stop talking and lets smex", and Cloud shutting up... means he's not agreeing? He's dorky, but I'm pretty sure he knew what she meant and would have protested awkwardly if it wasn't what he wanted. But he doesn't, he keeps quiet (or says Tifa in the Japanese version... still not really saying anything). *shrugs*
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I always thought it was a bit strange how after "you don't have to say anything to tell someone how you feel", him being silent meant that he was turning her down.

I'm inclined to believe that the English version making it "......" was some kind of massive hint instead :monster:

[quote author=Cthulhu link=topic=53.msg944#msg944 date=1228593970]
If there was a bug, a more plausible thing to have been put there would be something like '%s.....' or something.
[/quote]
I'm going to take your Great Word on it :monster: The most coding stuff I know is extremely basic HTML.
 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

... how the hell is that sex meaningless? What plausible interpretation would allow for this?

No actually, it's very simple if you just go with your gut feelings: Cloud loved Aerith. Whst's so hard?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=lonestar link=topic=53.msg980#msg980 date=1228615289]
No actually, it's very simple if you just go with your gut feelings: Cloud loved Aerith. Whst's so hard?
[/quote]

Well, that pesky reality thing keeps on thrusting itself back in. It's tireless.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

In all seriousness, do non-crazies even try to argue Cloud/Aeris anymore?
 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=looneymoon link=topic=53.msg1005#msg1005 date=1228636511]
In all seriousness, do non-crazies even try to argue Cloud/Aeris anymore?
[/quote]
I haven't been in the debate, or even aware of it for as long as others, but I have yet to find someone who believes Clerith is canon, and who isn't a shipper.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Before Advent Children there were, but not since ???
I'm pretty sure the confirmation cleared it up for neutral and er... non-rabids.
 

Purple

Charmed
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

From what I could gather on other sites, most non shippers believe that cloti is canon. The clerii fandom might be smaller than we think.
 

Fighter

Pro Adventurer
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

They mostly stick to themselves. And think everyone else is delusional.
 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Purple link=topic=53.msg1015#msg1015 date=1228645477]
From what I could gather on other sites, most non shippers believe that cloti is canon. The clerii fandom might be smaller than we think.
[/quote]
It really is. It consists now of the diehards on their forums, and some random kids who have seen Advent Children and then come to the internet thinking that there's this big debate and they want Aerith to win everything cause she's dead... or the KH ones, who confuse me even more. They look at each other, and THAT makes you want to learn more and ship them and yell at people over the internet about how they are so meant to be?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Purple link=topic=53.msg1015#msg1015 date=1228645477]
From what I could gather on other sites, most non shippers believe that cloti is canon. The clerii fandom might be smaller than we think.

[/quote]

Maybe smaller than you think, but the small size of the extant Pinkers has been something I've been aware of for quite awhile. The LTD is already a tiny subsection of the fandom, and the pinkers are smaller still.
 

NoenGaruth

That Guy With The Midgar Model
AKA
NoenGaruth, Stolz, Blitzwing, Ryoko Asakura, Judge Magister Gabranth, Col. Hans Landa, Itsuki Koizumi, Treize Khushrenada
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Personaly I used to prefer CloudxAerith when playing the original FF7 (probably just cause I prefer Aerith over Tifa...and Yuffie over both ;) ) But ever since the compliation i like the CloudxTifa and AerithxZack pairings better as those pairing seem to have more development around them.
 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I like Aerith more than Tifa as well, but that didn't make me instantly want her to win the LT and be with Cloud, or see it that way.

There's nothing wrong with preferring the CloudxAerith pairing over CloudxTifa when it comes to shipping and such, it's when you need it to be canon for some unknown reason and try to find proof for it when there's an issue.
 

NoenGaruth

That Guy With The Midgar Model
AKA
NoenGaruth, Stolz, Blitzwing, Ryoko Asakura, Judge Magister Gabranth, Col. Hans Landa, Itsuki Koizumi, Treize Khushrenada
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Well I just usualy go with what's presented in canon, now if we're talking in 'what if' scenario's I'd have really liked a CloudxRosalind (Gunshotromance name, BC Gun Turk, Elena's sister) pairing. Just when i read the GR transcripts in the chaper you have to guard that shinra scietist with Cloud I got the feeling of some chemistry between the two, especialy their little covo at the end of the mission and then Cloud says they should meet up again.

But unfortunatley thats just before he goes to nibelheim so that one never gets any more developments but i like to think something could have happened if Sephiroth didn't go crazy (Plus I'm sure he'd then have an easier time getting into SOLDIER if he's dating one of the Turks :P).
 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=NoenGaruth link=topic=53.msg1077#msg1077 date=1228706266]
Well I just usualy go with what's presented in canon, now if we're talking in 'what if' scenario's I'd have really liked a CloudxRosalind (Gunshotromance name, BC Gun Turk, Elena's sister) pairing. Just when i read the GR transcripts in the chaper you have to guard that shinra scietist with Cloud I got the feeling of some chemistry between the two, especialy their little covo at the end of the mission and then Cloud says they should meet up again.

But unfortunatley thats just before he goes to nibelheim so that one never gets any more developments but i like to think something could have happened if Sephiroth didn't go crazy (Plus I'm sure he'd then have an easier time getting into SOLDIER if he's dating one of the Turks :P ).
[/quote]What ifs are the fun of shipping. :monster: Especially if there is that little bit of interaction to work off of and use your imagination.

If you like to ship what's canon, that's cool too, but I suppose what the CloudxAerith people don't seem to understand is there's nothing wrong with shipping something that isn't canon. Use your imagination, have fun, it doesn't hurt anybody that you wish these two characters got together and were all romantic and stuffs. But they seem to think it's this second class shipping couple just because it's not canon. *shrugs*

Tserith pwns all pairings anyways :monster:
 

Als52

Rookie Adventurer
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Posts in legendary love triangle thread.

Wonders why in the H-E double hockey sticks people continue to play dollhouse with the characters...
...
...Shantotto looks puntable...
...
Concludes Final Fantasy VII fandom are sick.
Get ready for some ACC dramaz. Should be fun!
 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Balthea link=topic=53.msg1073#msg1073 date=1228704692]
I like Aerith more than Tifa as well, but that didn't make me instantly want her to win the LT and be with Cloud, or see it that way.

There's nothing wrong with preferring the CloudxAerith pairing over CloudxTifa when it comes to shipping and such, it's when you need it to be canon for some unknown reason and try to find proof for it when there's an issue.
[/quote]
No, there's nothing worng with that. Not one bit. Let people have their own opinion.

I do personally prefer CloTi though. XD
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

but I suppose what the CloudxAerith people don't seem to understand is there's nothing wrong with shipping something that isn't canon.

They just don't like admitting they're wrong, and can't seem to let go of their pride... if that's what you want to call it. O.o
 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Yes, there's that too. And then there's the fact that they spend more energy on trying to prove CloudxTifa wrong than they ship CloudxAerith anymore.
 
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