The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[juniper]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Hey, what would Cloud's job class be in FF Tactics if it wasn't SOLDIER? I know Tifa's a Monk, and Aerith would be a Mage. I guess Cloud would have been a Samurai, or something, since he wields katanas sometimes in VII.

Maybe not, though. I guess it's just his limit break, Cherry Blossom, from FFT that made me think that, what with their association with samurai.

Why did they give him Cherry Blossom? Does it have some sort of story, other than possibly just 'cuz Omnislash would have been too hard to animate?

 

[looneymoon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Ryushikaze link=topic=53.msg10406#msg10406 date=1232598087]
On the subject of 'triangle', I've though for awhile that calling this a triangle is entirely a mistake. Not just because of Zack, but also because of Tseng. And thus also Elena.
Hmm.. a couple more points and we'll have the Ramna 1/2 love polyhedral on our hands.
[/quote]

...would Rude and Cissnei fit in?
Hell, throw in Johnny as well

[quote author=juniper link=topic=53.msg10411#msg10411 date=1232598646]
Hey, what would Cloud's job class be in FF Tactics if it wasn't SOLDIER? I know Tifa's a Monk, and Aerith would be a Mage. I guess Cloud would have been a Samurai, or something, since he wields katanas sometimes in VII.
[/quote]

he'd be a dancer, of course


Cloud/Tifa having more results than Cloud/Sephiroth is actually really, really surprising.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Depends- FFT, TA, or TA2?

FFT, Arc Knight. He's essentially a knight, but more.

FFTA- Paladin/ Fighter

FFTA2- Paladin Paravir- not so much the holy, but he's definitely got the big smacky sword going on, and the Paravir Flair seems to match his style, if not his specific moves.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

D, with regards to retcons, what is your opinion on doing them to FLUSH that sort of thing, to excise the sort of bullshit that cocked up the Dragonlance timeline.
And what about such things as when different authors take up their hand at a continuity and cock it up, like with SW and Karen Traviss?

That's a bit different, mainly because a writer can't be expected to concede to another writers' bogus interpetation or misrepresentation of something. The original source, the original writer is the one who framed the story and for good or for ill they should be the ones with the right to say what is or isn't from the story if someone else made a false writing of it.

Now if the writer changes their own story just to make Evil Baddie number 7 stronger than Evil Baddie number 6 then yes, I feel they're being lazy and lame.

As for Dragonlance, it's entirely fucked mainly because I can't trust a single thing written in it anymore. It's got more revivals than FF4!

On the subject of 'triangle', I've though for awhile that calling this a triangle is entirely a mistake. Not just because of Zack, but also because of Tseng. And thus also Elena.
Hmm.. a couple more points and we'll have the Ramna 1/2 love polyhedral on our hands.

I think it was the original manual of FF7 that said that this was a triangle. SE seems to be recanting that point, and they techincally have that right, but again I scoff at anyone who has to rewrite their works just because they can't be arsed to write around it.

 

[kelly20]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=H link=topic=53.msg10361#msg10361 date=1232581363]
I just realized I google Japan'ed in English. The correct results would be:


Cloud/Aeris
????x???? ????? ? 23,100 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.29 ?)

Cloud/Tifa
????x???? ????? ? 60,500 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.27 ?)

Zack/Aeris
????x???? ????? ? 10,400 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.28 ?)

Cloud/Sephiroth
????x????? ????? ? 55,600 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.31 ?)

Maybe I can email this to Destiny Fulfilled. They need an update in statistics :3
[/quote]

ahh.. you should do that.. sigh... they even claimed it was canon in japan

thank you very much for the results.. I wonder why it seems as though Cleris or CloAer is more popular to western audiences it seems than the Japanese fans

I bet the cloud/tifa will go up after ACC ;D

 

[A]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

That's what I'm hoping for too

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Vampire Hunter D link=topic=53.msg10418#msg10418 date=1232601598]
That's a bit different, mainly because a writer can't be expected to concede to another writers' bogus interpetation or misrepresentation of something. The original source, the original writer is the one who framed the story and for good or for ill they should be the ones with the right to say what is or isn't from the story if someone else made a false writing of it.[/quote]

Well, that's sort of what happened with the two cast off CV games (they screwed up both previous stories and planned stories that the regular series director was intending to make) and to a lesser extent what's happening with Maiden.

Now if the writer changes their own story just to make Evil Baddie number 7 stronger than Evil Baddie number 6 then yes, I feel they're being lazy and lame.

As for Dragonlance, it's entirely fucked mainly because I can't trust a single thing written in it anymore. It's got more revivals than FF4!

Forgotten Realms is nearly as bad. Of course, I generally can't stand that setting after the Spellfire books- well, Unless Mystra's dead, anyways.

I think it was the original manual of FF7 that said that this was a triangle.

IIRC, it said Aerith was "interested in deepening the triangle between her, Tifa, and Cloud" or words to that effect.

SE seems to be recanting that point, and they techincally have that right, but again I scoff at anyone who has to rewrite their works just because they can't be arsed to write around it.

Wait, how are they saying there was never a triangle? You don't have to have mutual interest to have a romantic triangle. To take a small bit from Ranma 1/2, Ranma -> Akane <- Ryouga is a triangle, but Akane has absolutely no attraction to Ryouga outside of Friendship. Ranma-chan <- Kuno -> Akane is also technically a triangle, even though both 'bases' loath the point. In FF itself, Cecil -> Rosa <- Kain is another triangle, even though it was decided before the game began. Same with Tseng -> Aerith <- Zack, or even Cloud -> Tifa <- Rude. Mutuality is not necessary for a Romantic triangle to exist, just that there are at least three people, and a certain amount of romantic feelings to connect the three points. It's entirely possibly to have an A -> B -> C triangle, after all.

 

[juniper]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I forgot to ask this question. It's about Cloud's line "I think I can meet her... there."

I know this line was mistranslated, and I also heard that Dismantled explains the line, but what did it say?

Can anyone explain what Cloud was saying? From his preceding lines, I gathered that he wasn't talking about meetin' up with his dead lover.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

The Ultimania Omega does suggest that it's Aerith they're going to met.

There was another book, 'FF Complete Works' (link), which apparently said that it was a promise, to (together with Tifa) someday go to see people (plural) dear to them. That could still include Aerith, as well as others.

The explanations in the book apparently lean towards Cloud/Tifa, but it has a lot of typos

 

[Makoeyes987]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Just something that amused me highly that I thought I'd share.

I got a friend of mine who's never played Final Fantasy at all before, to play FFVII, and she had hardly any real exposure to it at all, save for Kingdom Hearts.

She's just about beaten it, and is on her way to the Northern Cave, and I asked her what she thought about the relationship between Cloud and Aerith, and she was all, "What relationship? They hardly knew each other." She thinks Cloud and Tifa were the ones made for each other.

I just had to LOL at that

 

[kelly20]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=53.msg10719#msg10719 date=1232740496]
Just something that amused me highly that I thought I'd share.

I got a friend of mine who's never played Final Fantasy at all before, to play FFVII, and she had hardly any real exposure to it at all, save for Kingdom Hearts.

She's just about beaten it, and is on her way to the Northern Cave, and I asked her what she thought about the relationship between Cloud and Aerith, and she was all, "What relationship? They hardly knew each other." She thinks Cloud and Tifa were the ones made for each other.

I just had to LOL at that
[/quote]

I am glad she didn't base their, C/A, relationship off of Kingdom hearts...I felt like after the first Kingdom hearts game.. the Cleri grew..and only played that game and read the scenes from a certain site and claimed they played the game, while asking others on forums "did you play the game" :o

well, not all of them, but quite a few as I have noticed while reading some comments on youtube and such.. its amazing, some people completely ignore the plot and ignore the biggest twist in the story because it hurts/destroys? their ship...sighh.. and I have nothing against the ship.. its cute.. but not canon

oh forget twist, lets talk about ignoring a complete game (CC anyone?)
sigh I'll stop now..

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

C/A, relationship off of Kingdom hearts..

*Face+desk.*
It's a two second scene of absolutely nothing! And somehow, KH2 is not a big deal- what, especially with the Tifa appearance but this two second scene holds all of the answers.

I do not understand.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Isn't Tifa Cloud's light in Kingdom Hearts, anyways?

And she's been searching for him and all ever since he left Hollow Bastion?

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Nomura confirmed that Tifa is Cloud's light in KH2. I'm not sure about KH, cos there was no Tifa in it (but the 2sec long C/A reunion in the credits).

C/A and C/T scenes from KH2:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVbWMawtq5g"]YouTube - KH2 (Japanese) - Cutscene with Sora, Cloud & Aerith[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFYLFa4oXes"]YouTube - Kingdom Hearts 2 Cloud Vs. Sephiroth[/ame]

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=53.msg10759#msg10759 date=1232754629]
Isn't Tifa Cloud's light in Kingdom Hearts, anyways?

And she's been searching for him and all ever since he left Hollow Bastion?
[/quote]

Keryep. Not that KH means much to the actual FFs, outside of where it explicitly does, but it is nice to nip nonsense in the bud.

 

[Frostwave]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I know this line was mistranslated, and I also heard that Dismantled explains the line, but what did it say?

A few months ago, a member of another forum I visit asked this question, and someone who'd read through at least that section of Dismantled said the explanation of that scene went like this:

Cloud says to Tifa that they may die anyway, despite their effort. He then tells her that he thinks that they may be able to meet people(as in Aerith and any other deceased loved ones)who've died in the Promised Land when and if they do. Tifa smiles in agreement and says "Yeah, let's go meet them."


So, that's the answer I'm familiar with. It was talking about Aerith, but not just about her, and there was nothing romantic about it. Unlike the Clerii claim, Cloud wasn't trying to ditch Tifa for Aerith, and she didn't go from shock, to pain, to resignation and submission, and finally to respect for "Cloud's wish", as the Clerii hilariously claimed. It confirms that Tifa was in a happy state of mind(as if we needed it).

If any of this is incorrect, sorry. Thought I'd run it through inspection.

And yeah, it's silly how an explanation so clear, that Tifa is Cloud's light in KH, can be so contested by those chicks. FF_G was trying to tear the quote that said it, even though it said, point blank, "if Sephiroth is Cloud's darkness, then Tifa is light."

Ha.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Ha, indeed. The most hilarious thing about Cleriths is that they not just trying to ignore different interpretations, but also official statements made by the creators themselves.

Leanan Sidhe, this version really makes scense, too.
Cleriths often state that Cloud never visited FC, because Aerith was buried there and the sorrow was so great that he couldnt make himself to go there.
However, Avalanche visited Aerith's "grave" and I think that this has something to do with that conversation.

 

[lunar_crimson]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=spirit chaser link=topic=53.msg10783#msg10783 date=1232766913]
However, Avalanche visited Aerith's "grave" and I think that this has something to do with that conversation.
[/quote]

Which reminds me:

Tifa went to see Aerith together with her companions. Aerith who was now at the bottom of the Forgotten City's spring......... Being a member of Avalanche and being with a large group of people gave her these feelings. The tears wouldn't stop.

"I'm sorry, I'm really sorry."

She felt Cloud's hand on her shoulder. He held onto her firmly so that she wouldn't go anywhere. For now, she was just going to let herself cry as much as she felt like. Then she was going to leave the rest to him.

And this is immediately after the "Because you're always with me line" and then we see Cloud smiles scenario. Which is a scenario right after the ending of FF7.

Point. Tifa seems to be more devastated over Aerith's death than Cloud is, while Cloud is concerned about comforting Tifa. -shrugs-

It's the geostigma. -sigh-

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

About that "bowing her head in resignation" stuff they say about Tifa: Did they not notice that her head was in the same position before Cloud's line? She's resting her head on his chest, he speaks, she looks up and smiles, then puts her head back where it was previously resting. Tifa's behavior in that scene -- resting her head on his chest, smiling, patting his butt -- doesn't reflect a rejected woman, and neither does her Highwind behavior. In fact, it reflects a familiarity, an intimacy between two people who've reached an understanding.

 

[Frostwave]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It's really sad. But, at least it's funny most of the time.

I remember laughing for about five straight minutes when I first read that explanation. They used a screenshot of the close-up of Tifa's face after Cloud says his line, and "explained" her expression.

The best part went something like "If you look at Tifa's eyes, she does indeed appear to be smiling. However, if you look closely at her mouth, her expression is that of a lost soul."

A "lost soul"? Whee! Oh. my. god. I have very little hope for these ladies. They are insane. ;D

 

[kelly20]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

sorry to be ignorant but what does the actual Japanese say/mean?

I think that last line confused a lot of people..

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

What actual Japanese? In the crater scene? Just that Cloud things there can be a meeting. Tifa then says they should go to the meeting.

 

[A]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Are you guys talking about how Cloud 'looks away' from Tifa all the time in disgust?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

In part, yes. BBM, we have an infestation of troll over at your board. Go ban and flush the turd.

 

[A]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Dumb troll pissed her crap all over the forum! What the hell!?!? What a bitch...