The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Channy]

Oops. I messed myself. My inner Clerith raged and wanted to change every noun to Clerith to insinuate it.

 

[Edley]

Leave you girls alone for 15 minutes and you're playing with dolls. That is awesome. British Foul Mouth Tifa Computer Lady is awesome as well.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

ok fuckers, stop the spam.

off topic is off-topic; pointless spam will get you spanked, mmmkay?

 

[Channy]

Leave you girls alone for 15 minutes and you're playing with dolls. That is awesome. British Foul Mouth Tifa Computer Lady is awesome as well.

wait who?

also, no u.

 

[I Am Not Me]

ok fuckers, stop the spam.

off topic is off-topic; pointless spam will get you spanked, mmmkay?

We need someone to get everyone on topic, but I can't think of an on-topic question right now.

That, and our only Clerith here has converted for the sex.

 

[Purple]

Ah, what's up with the change of the thread's name?

 

[Isabella]

It should've been changed to Love Triangle SPAMMITY SPAM MCSPAMMERSONS

 

[I Am Not Me]

But then that would make it a spam thread.


And Purple:

I changed the title, Shad.

Y'know, not to bring drama from elsewhere over here, but does anyone else find it HILARIOUS how a vague section of the fandom from years and years ago that no one here was ever a part of is somehow being held against us? It's like some folks who shall remain pointedly nameless see this entire side of the fandom as an amorphous collective monster, all somehow indistinguishable from the rest.

I mean, that'd be as ludicrous as me saying that every Clerith fan in the world believed in spirit sex in the flowerfields.
And yet, that is the sort of thing I see said about an entire side of the fandom on a forum of a certain color to remain unspecified, by someone considered quite prominent amongst their ranks. And said in a thread talking about bias, discrimination, and generalization. Truly, it boggles how the hypocrisy goes unnoticed.

 

[Vendel]

Back on track huh? Alright. If someone else wants to challenge me on this until Zee responds I will be glad to argue.

The point is that you seem to be agreeing with most of what I say. Yet you insist that the real Cloud was somehow shining through on disk one. He wasn't. He was no where to be found outside his own head.

Guess what? Cloud is MIA on disk one and Aerith does have it bad for someone she doesn't know. By the time she figures out something is wrong she gets killed.

That is the point.

Bring it on.

COME ON!!!!

Also I think Cloud is doing something wrong in that Cloti Pic. Unless they are into things I don't even want to think about.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Akshully, and don't point me to your sig here, I don't think Aerith has it bad for someone she doesn't know. She does know Cloud. At least, she knows Cloud isn't himself.

What she knows is Zacloud. So in the end, she does have it bad for someone she knows: Zacloud.

And the real Cloud was in Disc 1 at times, but this is in regards to Tifa. I also think that Cloud's strong desire to protect someone is actually a manifestation of real!Cloud...

Just my take on it.

 

[Vendel]

Akshully, and don't point me to your sig here,

Don't tempt me....


Something that caught my eye is this line from CoT "I wondered if the fact that he was sleeping here meant that he was part of the family."

Now unless we have another translation issue the only way I can take this is "since we are sharing a bed does that mean Cloud is ready for this whole family thing".

I mean why would she be making a special point about Cloud sleeping at 7th Heaven? Unless Cloud was sleeping in the street (or at the church......).

 

[Channy]

Don't tempt me....


Something that caught my eye is this line from CoT "I wondered if the fact that he was sleeping here meant that he was part of the family."

Now unless we have another translation issue the only way I can take this is "since we are sharing a bed does that mean Cloud is ready for this whole family thing".

I mean why would she be making a special point about Cloud sleeping at 7th Heaven? Unless Cloud was sleeping in the street (or at the church......).

See the only biff I have with CoT is does it ever SPECIFICALLY say they're sleeping side by side in the same bed? In ACC the room where Reno and Rude brought them to shows them in two separate beds. Somewhere (Can't remember for the life of me) mentions a cot in Cloud's office place.

So it just seems OOC of Cloud TO ME for him to be sleeping in a bed next to woman, NOT JUST BECAUSE IT'S TIFA. To sleep in a bed with someone you really have to feel close to them and confident. Cloud, while he feels close, he certainly isn't confident feeling throughout ACC. I just can't imagine him sleeping in a bed with another woman while he's all shitfaced.

 

[Vendel]

See the only biff I have with CoT is does it ever SPECIFICALLY say they're sleeping side by side in the same bed? In ACC the room where Reno and Rude brought them to shows them in two separate beds. Somewhere (Can't remember for the life of me) mentions a cot in Cloud's office place.

In the movie they are in the kids room. Also if she was talking about him sleeping on the cot then WHY WOULD THAT REQUIRE SPECIAL MENTION? It would make no sense whatsoever "since Cloud is sleeping on this cot in his office does that mean we are a family". I'm sorry but that falls into the whole "Tifa is pathetic and delusional" line of thinking.

Plus that is called Clouds office. Never his bedroom.

So it just seems OOC of Cloud TO ME for him to be sleeping in a bed next to woman, NOT JUST BECAUSE IT'S TIFA. To sleep in a bed with someone you really have to feel close to them and confident. Cloud, while he feels close, he certainly isn't confident feeling throughout ACC. I just can't imagine him sleeping in a bed with another woman while he's all shitfaced.

The point of the line is that Cloud is sleeping there NOW. They didn't start out sharing a bed. But between the time Barret left and Denzil showed up they did.

As for OOC for Cloud. What about all those line about Tifa makes him happy and spending his life with her etc etc etc? Why wouldn't they share a bed at some point? Sure they have issues. But they also have each other.

 

[Channy]

In the movie they are in the kids room. Also if she was talking about him sleeping on the cot then WHY WOULD THAT REQUIRE SPECIAL MENTION? It would make no sense whatsoever "since Cloud is sleeping on this cot in his office does that mean we are a family". I'm sorry but that falls into the whole "Tifa is pathetic and delusional" line of thinking.

Plus that is called Clouds office. Never his bedroom.

oic. Wasn't sure if it was the kids room or theirs.

I dunno. Is it really special mention at all? The man's sleeping in a bed ffs but is it specified that its his AND Tifa's bed? S'all I'm asking.

The point of the line is that Cloud is sleeping there NOW. They didn't start out sharing a bed. But between the time Barret left and Denzil showed up they did.

As for OOC for Cloud. What about all those line about Tifa makes him happy and spending his life with her etc etc etc? Why wouldn't they share a bed at soem point? Sure they have issues. But they also have each other.

Something about a little orphan Annie showing up on your doorstep and the absence of a big black man just makes you want to bunk with people.

 

[Vendel]

I dunno. Is it really special mention at all? The man's sleeping in a bed ffs but is it specified that its his AND Tifa's bed? S'all I'm asking.

The point I am making is why would it be worth a mention if Cloud started sleeping anywhere in 7th heaven? You would assume he had been doing that the whole time. The only reason to point it out would be that he was sleeping THERE next to her. Or at least in the same room.

Something about a little orphan Annie showing up on your doorstep and the absence of a big black man just makes you want to bunk with people.

Yes, yes it does.

 

[Channy]

The point I am making is why would it be worth a mention if Cloud started sleeping anywhere in 7th heaven? You would assume he had been doing that the whole time. The only reason to point it out would be that he was sleeping THERE next to her. Or at least in the same room.

Actually, my assumption would go to his home first. Or his mom's home anyway. Maybe he'd moved back to Nibelheim. But apparently not, since he's been staying at the Church anyway. Mentioning he's staying at the Church =/= Mentioning staying at 7th Heaven.

 

[Vendel]

Actually, my assumption would go to his home first. Or his mom's home anyway. Maybe he'd moved back to Nibelheim. But apparently not, since he's been staying at the Church anyway. Mentioning he's staying at the Church =/= Mentioning staying at 7th Heaven.

I will just assume you are being funny. So I will not lunge for the smite button.


It is within reach though.

 

[Channy]

I'm not joking akshually.

Cloud's home was still rebuilt but his mum wasn't there, and iirc nobody was living there when he went to visit in the game. So why not go back and claim what's rightfully his if nobody's there?

Just a pondering.

 

[null.]

CoT answers that.

 

[Channy]

I haven't read it so it's all moot to me.

 

[Vendel]

I'm not joking akshually.

Cloud's home was still rebuilt but his mum wasn't there, and iirc nobody was living there when he went to visit in the game. So why not go back and claim what's rightfully his if nobody's there?

Just a pondering.

Besides the fact that he and Tifa visit Nibelheim and say it holds nothing for them? Or the fact that it is never mentioned that Cloud is not living with Tifa other than when he leaves right before AC? Or Cloud saying that he can start a new life because he has Tifa?

I don't have the exact quotes in front of me and I am to lazy to get them. But I could go on if you wish.


Edit: what is this?

I haven't read it so it's all moot to me.

GAH!!! *SMITE*

 

[null.]

To sleep in a bed with someone you really have to feel close to them and confident. Cloud, while he feels close, he certainly isn't confident feeling throughout ACC. I just can't imagine him sleeping in a bed with another woman while he's all shitfaced.

Have you ever been shitfaced? That's the most surefire way to feel close and confident with someone.

 

[Isabella]

Should you really be discussing CoT with Vendel if you haven't read it?

 

[Vendel]

Should you really be discussing CoT with Vendel if you haven't read it?

Well if someone hasn't read it then hit the home button. It is at the bottom of the page.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Guess what? Cloud is MIA on disk one and Aerith does have it bad for someone she doesn't know. By the time she figures out something is wrong she gets killed.

THIS.

I don't think anyone here is saying Cloud was somehow out of it completely. The idea that the real Cloud is there in no way negates the fact he was a really messed up individual.

So yes, Cloud was there. But he was there thinking he was a SOLDIER, remembering things he shouldn't, emulating someone he wanted to be like, acting like the man he wanted to be but wasn't. He thought he had experienced things he didn't and had blocked out things he had. As such, his behaviour was drastically altered, so much in fact, that when he acted like the tough macho SOLDIER, Tifa was always WTFing or uneasy. It's why she kept close and watched him and wanted him as a part of AVALANCHE, because he wasn't who he was supposed to be.

To say that just because part of the real Cloud was there everything = dandy is just foolish. A man suffering from mere depression is many times not held accountable for everythign he says/does. Hell, people in great fits of anger are said to be "not in control" of their real selves. And people are seriously saying that a messed up Cloud -- to the point where he had adopted someone else's characteristics and blocked much of his past out, to the point where he was seizing and frequently going under the control of an alien -- is somehow not really affected all that much?

Seriously? Did we play the same game? Then what's the point of the whole "puppet" theme between Cloud and Sephiroth? Why have the Lifestream sequence as the big reveal? What does it all matter if the audience always knew the real Cloud?

No one is saying Cloud was totally out of it. No one is saying Cloud's relationships and feelings for other people aren't real. Or that he doesn't feel guilt or grieve for those he lost after he finds himself. It just means that he himself doesn't know Cloud.

And while Cloud is there, he is not wholly there and has substituted parts of himself with other "Clouds". He is a mix of things and it's not only foolish to think that this somehow isn't a huge influence in the way he acts, it's a blatant disregard of everything the game AND the creators have repeatedly said.

This is why the dating game doesn't matter. That's why it doesn't matter if you date Barret or Yuffie, because it's a simple game (since those dating sims were popular at the time) that is explained away by Cloud's instability. The times the player makes Cloud act in ways he/she wants him to, are all explained away by this, even if the player makes him act in ways that may contradict the later story. The true Cloud is the one who associates Tifa with tender memories and a secret wish no one can ever know; it's the Cloud who sleeps with her in all versions no matter what liberties the game may have allowed you for a few moments. He is weak Cloud, not heroic, brave Zack!Cloud, as Nomura himself says.

The point is that there far too many different Clouds in conflict with one another for Aeris to have known and loved the true Cloud. She knew he was messed. He was having seizures and beating her up. But not having Tifa's advantage in knowing him before, and seeing Zack in him many times, by the time she realizes Cloud may not be Cloud she runs into Sephiroth's sword.

And then we have SE repeatedly saying that Aeris acted the way she did around Cloud because of Zack, or something to that effect (someone else can get quotes, I get lost with those books). We have them later linking Aeris' appearance to her desire to see Zack again. I mean, come on!

Maybe he'd moved back to Nibelheim.

....why would he return to the one place that holds the worst memories for him? Like...oh, I don't know, his slaughtered family and friends. CoT mentions that neither Cloud nor Tifa have anything there. Also, when everyone else returns home/go out to find what they're fighting for, Cloud and Tifa remain together in the game.

Cloud would never go to Nibelheim.

Have you ever been shitfaced? That's the most surefire way to feel close and confident with someone.

Ahh, the wonders of liquid courage.