The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Danseru-kun]

Tifa's gonna be pissed when she finds out Cloud married this Tina person.

Well if you look at it, it's Roberto marrying Tina. So nobody's gonna get jealous.

Okay I'll ask her but currently that's so out of topic since's we're talking about school. I'll find another chance.

I think it's because the quote says "part of his family" so maybe she took it as they got married legally. But it still holds that she thinks the taisetsuna onna is romantic <3

 

[Danseru-kun]

OMGOSH ANY MODS HERE PLEASE DELETE MY IMAGE MY REAL IDENTITY WAHHHHH PLZ HIDE THIS NOW NOW NOW

 

[Ⓐaron]

Sorted, I think; did I replace it with the right one?

edit: nvm I just replaced it with a text transcription, though having the Japanese text to fill in as well would be nice.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

Thanks a lot, ;_;

Now in despair. I felt that I just posted a nude picture back there.

 

[Ⓐaron]

It was just that one quoted image, right?

Do you have the Japanese text as well? Would be nice to have to paste in there.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Okay sure, but I'm afraid that people will chop-chop this and twist the meaning:

AAAAAAA XD
ne another question about looovee
In Japanese, when you say "taisetsuna onna" is it romantic?

Siempre
A man can say to the one like this, &#8221;&#12362;&#21069;&#12399;&#12289;&#20474;&#12398;&#22823;&#20999;&#12394;&#22899;&#12384;&#12290;&#35504;&#12395;&#12418;&#28193;&#12373;&#12394;&#12356;&#12290;&#8221;

Ne, you said taisetsuna onna is romantic right? But how do you say, "she's an important woman in my baseball team?"
What should be used?

&#24444;&#22899;&#12399;&#12289;&#31169;&#12398;&#37326;&#29699;&#12481;&#12540;&#12512;&#12395;&#12392;&#12387;&#12390;&#37325;&#35201;(zyuuyou)&#12394;&#20154;&#29289;&#12384;&#12290;
&#22823;&#20999;&#12394; is more emotional expression, and subjective,
but if there is strong need of something ,viewed objectively,
you should use "&#37325;&#35201;" to express it.
for example,
This ring is very important for me, because my grandmother left it to me.
&#12371;&#12398;&#25351;&#36650;(ring)&#12399;&#31169;&#12395;&#12392;&#12387;&#12390;&#12289;&#12392;&#12390;&#12418;&#22823;&#20999;&#12394;&#12418;&#12398;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;
&#12394;&#12380;&#12394;&#12425;&#12289;&#31169;&#12398;&#31062;&#27597;&#12364;&#31169;&#12395;&#36986;&#12375;&#12390;&#12367;&#12428;&#12383;&#12418;&#12398;&#12384;&#12363;&#12425;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;
*&#36986;&#12375;&#12390;&#12367;&#12428;&#12383;&#12418;&#12398; means memento.
The doctor said to me "You have to keep it, because it is very important document."
&#21307;&#32773;&#12399;&#31169;&#12395;&#12300;&#38750;&#24120;&#12395;&#37325;&#35201;&#12394;&#26360;&#39006;&#12394;&#12398;&#12391;&#12289;&#12394;&#12367;&#12373;&#12394;&#12356;&#12391;&#12367;&#12384;&#12373;&#12356;&#12397;&#12290;&#12301;&#12392;&#12356;&#12387;&#12383;&#12290;
&#22823;&#20999;&#12394;&#65306;YOU think it is important.
&#37325;&#35201;&#12394;&#65306;it is GENERALLY important or MOST PEOPLE think it is important.
the difference is like that!

So "&#22823;&#20999;&#12394;" doesn't always mean romantic, it depends on the context.

OOOHh arigatou! I'll look for the japanese text of the magazine XD If I find it I'll show it to you

I found the Japanese text of what I want to consult about: &#12356;&#12414;&#12420;&#23478;&#26063;&#12391;&#12418;&#12354;&#12427;&#22823;&#20999;&#12394;&#22899;&#24615;&#12481;&#12490;&#12420;&#12289;&#12363;&#12388;&#12390;&#12398;&#20210;&#38291;&#12363;&#12425;&#12398;&#22768;&#25480;&#12434;&#21463;&#12369;&#12289;&#12525;&#12496;&#12488; &#12399;&#21069;&#36914;&#12377;&#12427;&#21191;&#27671;&#12434;&#21462;&#12426;&#12418;&#12393;&#12377;&#12290;Tina is said to be a "taisetsu na josei/onna" do you think it's romantic?

I think so because that sentence says she is already his wife now

 

[Ⓐaron]

They probably will >:

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Tina is Terra from FFVI's Japanese name. So I guess Cloud/Terra isn't that much of a crackship after all.

 

[Danseru-kun]

They probably will >:

They might remove the "taisetsuna" is not always romantic part and use it against me, even if it isn't "taisetsuna onna."

I've seen them use it against my communicated feelings quote, the used the single kanji "omoi" which is "feelings/memories" against the whole phrase that the kanji was part of.

Tina is Terra from FFVI's Japanese name. So I guess Cloud/Terra isn't that much of a crackship after all.

I told you it's Roberto and Tina, and a Japanese just canonized Robtina

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

They might remove the "taisetsuna" is not always romantic part and use it against me, even if it isn't "taisetsuna onna."

I've seen them use it against my communicated feelings quote, the used the single kanji "omoi" which is "feelings/memories" against the whole phrase that the kanji was part of.


I told you it's Roberto and Tina, and a Japanese just canonized Robtina

Spoiler: So Terra married some guy named Roberto?

Btw, I knew it was Roberto and Tina, I was just being facetious.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm pretty sure "taisetsu na josei/onna" would only be construed as romantic within specific contexts (e.g. she's the mother of the family you've formed with her, in which you're raising kids ), but would never really be looked to for a revelation of romantic feeling/intent on its own.

Not trying to be a wet blanket, but that's my understanding.

 

[Vendel]

Silly people. I have a totally unbiased translation of those lines.


"Being supported from Tifa, now an important woman in the family, and from other friends, Cloud gets the courage of moving on."


Clearly this is saying Tifa isn't important to Cloud, but to THE FAMILY.

 

[Danseru-kun]

I'm pretty sure "taisetsu na josei/onna" would only be construed as romantic within specific contexts (e.g. she's the mother of the family you've formed with her, in which you're raising kids ), but would never really be looked to for a revelation of romantic feeling/intent on its own.

Not trying to be a wet blanket, but that's my understanding.

Well so far my google searches always point out taisetsuna onna as a love interest, I see bits of advice asking about the woman, love poems and there is an advertisement on learning how to protect your taisetsuna onna.

Though I'm not fully convinced that it itself is a revelation of a romantic relationship, I've never seen it used in a platonic one. Can you give some examples?

 

[eleamaya]

I think there's some AC post card book that also describes Zack as someone Cloud will never forget. It's probably the same as the others, too.

Sorry for late response, this is what you meant.

Translation: For Cloud, they were people whom he can never forget. The two irreplaceable people; Zack, “who was sent to death because protect him” and Aerith, “who met a tragic fate as he couldn’t protect her” became “the unforgivable sins” in his heart.

And this is Cloud and Tifa's page.

Cloud
Two years after the meteor incident he started up his own delivery business while helping Tifa who had opened a bar called Seventh Heaven in Edge, a town located outside of Midgar. He lived with Tifa, Marlene and Denzel for a period of time but he suffered with Geostigma and suddenly disappeared one day.

Tifa
Tifa opened the bar “Seventh Heaven” with a help from Cloud and Barret in a town where refugees from Midgar reside, Edge. It was not long before Barret leaved in a search for what he should do hereafter, so she was supposed to live peacefully with Cloud, Marlene and Denzel. It was lasted for a moment as Cloud disappeared without saying anything.

Btw, I got it from another forum, so maybe the translation is not valid.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

LHYeung has some better pictures from the post card book on his site -- though, sadly, not one of the Zack & Aerith page:

http://ffviinovels.lhyeung.net/postcards/

Without a better scan or photo, the text is perfectly impossible to make out.

Well so far my google searches always point out taisetsuna onna as a love interest, I see bits of advice asking about the woman, love poems and there is an advertisement on learning how to protect your taisetsuna onna.

Though I'm not fully convinced that it itself is a revelation of a romantic relationship, I've never seen it used in a platonic one. Can you give some examples?

Off the top of my head, no. I agree that it definitely gets used that way most of the time, as does &#22823;&#20999;&#12394;&#20154;-type stuff in general (that's "taisetsu na hito"; "important person"), but I know I've seen the latter construction used in advertising with reference to non-romantic love (e.g. for family members or precious friends).

The way these terms are used seems much the same way one might say "the important woman in your life" or "that important someone" in English. While it's going to refer to something romantic 9 times out of 10, it doesn't have to. At least not with the "taisetsu na hito" construction; it may well be that the other just sees no use otherwise and I'm conflating the two constructions.

Of course, in either case, with the line in question from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania, I think this is likely another case where you wouldn't find a native Japanese speaker who would read it as anything but a romantic thing. Tifa's role as "taisetsu na josei" is brought up in relation to her role as the mother of the children in the family she is said to have formed with Cloud.

If Tifa were not meant to be seen in a romantic light with regard to Cloud, this would be an altogether counterintuitive sentence construction.

Basically, no writer would write it that way -- nor have cause to mention these ideas in relation to one another -- if they didn't mean it this way.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

That says a lot, especially that guidebooks are meant to clarify things for fans. For a native Japanese speaker who knows nothing about Roberto and Tina I'm sure SE wouldn't write anything that will mislead people. Even without playing the game, I think they meant the meaning to be clear.

From the start I've always held that "important woman" is romantic in that quote so I'm really thankful that Risa is able to prove that it is.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Silly people. I have a totally unbiased translation of those lines.


"Being supported from Tifa, now an important woman in the family, and from other friends, Cloud gets the courage of moving on."


Clearly this is saying Tifa isn't important to Cloud, but to THE FAMILY.

Are you implying that Cloud isn't a part of the family?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I decided to e-mail LHYeung about that page from the ACC Post Card Book, and he was kind enough to take a better picture for us:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/ff7zackaerith.jpg

We can now see that the line in question is:

&#12463;&#12521;&#12454;&#12489;&#12395;&#12392;&#12387;&#12390;&#12398;&#24536;&#12428;&#12425;&#12428;&#12394;&#12356;&#23384;&#22312;&#12290;

So, this time they didn't use the "engraved in heart/chest" idiom to say "always remember." It just literally says that Aerith & Zack are people he will never forget.

A big thanks to XComp/LHYeung.

 

[Vendel]

That says a lot, especially that guidebooks are meant to clarify things for fans. For a native Japanese speaker who knows nothing about Roberto and Tina I'm sure SE wouldn't write anything that will mislead people. Even without playing the game, I think they meant the meaning to be clear.

From the start I've always held that "important woman" is romantic in that quote so I'm really thankful that Risa is able to prove that it is.

You are just stating the obvious. But it needs to be said from time to time. Certain segments of the FFVII fandom get the idea that this is some kind of puzzle to be worked out. Why would SE put out a guidebook that you are supposed to "find clues" in and piece together?

Take for example the FTOIL page. What kind of screwball half-assed operation would put a bunch of text on a page if you are just supposed to ignore it and instead focus on one picture and a number that leads to a different page with the text we are supposed to be reading?

Why have so many instances of romantic phrases used for Cloud and Tifa if we are supposed to ignore the obvious meanings in all of them and instead use some sort of alternate interpretation?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Danseru will probably find this interesting. I just remembered that those character interrelationship charts from the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 1: Character guide used &#22823;&#20999;&#12394;&#23384;&#22312; ("taisetsu na sonzai"; "important person/existence") to refer to Zidane and Dagger's relation to one another, as well as Tidus and Yuna's:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/ix001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/ffx001.jpg

Take as you will.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

Thanks for that Tres, new stuff for our incoming LTD artcles I'll list a set of questions in a few hours or so regarding some LTD stuff that I'll need for my analysis.

Posted pics to be posted in my tumblr

 

[Danseru-kun]

What's the entire content of Page 232 in the Ultimania? It's usually used for rebutting the FTOIL page (which we already know about.) How did it present the HW scene altogether? I mean, did it mention the LA along the HA, there's a footnote or anything?

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Well the relationship flowcharts aren't completely reliable sources for the relationship between two people because, as Squall_of_SeeD has pointed out in his FFVII plot analysis, "The chart isn&#8217;t taking into account the entirety of the Compilation, nor even the entirety of the original game for that matter."(direct quote btw)

 

[Vendel]

What's the entire content of Page 232 in the Ultimania? It's usually used for rebutting the FTOIL page (which we already know about.) How did it present the HW scene altogether? I mean, did it mention the LA along the HA, there's a footnote or anything?

Someone correct me if I am wrong. But isn't the deviation text that gets thrown around the footnote?

 

[Danseru-kun]

Well the relationship flowcharts aren't completely reliable sources for the relationship between two people because, as Squall_of_SeeD has pointed out in his FFVII plot analysis, "The chart isn’t taking into account the entirety of the Compilation, nor even the entirety of the original game for that matter."(direct quote btw)

Yeah that's true, but nobody denies that TiYun and ZidaGarnet are 100% canon and for Cloti to have a quote similar used to those pairings is something