The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Yeah that's true, but nobody denies that TiYun and ZidaGarnet are 100% canon and for Cloti to have a quote similar used to those pairings is something

I dunno, I still can't figure when and how Zidane and Garnet became a couple. I got the "they're a couple now" vibe during the ending, but I'm not sure when or how it happened. I'm pretty sure there are people who don't realize Zidane and Garnet are a couple. Tidus and Yuna kiss, so I doubt anybody denies they're 100% canon though. and for the record, the correct portmanteau couple name for Tidus and Yuna is "Tuna". But if I were to rank the three pairings in order of obviousness I'd say:
Tidus x Yuna
Cloud x Tifa
Zidane x Garnet

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

Seeing Tidus x Yuna as Tuna always makes me hungry! Same with Tikku

Well anyway Zidane was definitely interested in checking Garnet out "Oohh soft!" Then I think it became more serious for him the times Garnet was kidnapped and/or fainted and he came to genuinely worry for/care about her. The other team members cottoned on/clued into it as well, Eiko was jealous of Garnet at first because she viewed her as romantic rival for Zidane, then if I remember right Eiko comes to genuinely care about Garnet as well and she concedes defeat over/wishes Garnet good luck with Zidane

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Seeing Tidus x Yuna as Tuna always makes me hungry! Same with Tikku

Well anyway Zidane was definitely interested in checking Garnet out "Oohh soft!" Then I think it became more serious for him the times Garnet was kidnapped and/or fainted and he came to genuinely worry for/care about her. The other team members cottoned on/clued into it as well, Eiko was jealous of Garnet at first because she viewed her as romantic rival for Zidane, then if I remember right Eiko comes to genuinely care about Garnet as well and she concedes defeat over/wishes Garnet good luck with Zidane

Oh I know all about Zidane's feelings for Garnet. Those were obvious from the beginning. I just can't figure out when garnet developed romantic feelings for Zidane.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Danseru will probably find this interesting. I just remembered that those character interrelationship charts from the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 1: Character guide used 大切な存在 ("taisetsu na sonzai"; "important person/existence") to refer to Zidane and Dagger's relation to one another, as well as Tidus and Yuna's:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/ix001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/ffx001.jpg

Take as you will.

Also take from this that Wakka and Lulu, another canon couple with kids, are listed as 'childhood friends' relating to FFX.
I think Cecil and Rosa are also Taisetsu na sonzai as well, but I forget where I shoved my scans of those flowcharts.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

And Cid 'treats Sierra unkindly', according to the relationship flowchart, something that is only true for the first 2/3 of the game..

 

[Danseru-kun]

Silly people. I have a totally unbiased translation of those lines.


"Being supported from Tifa, now an important woman in the family, and from other friends, Cloud gets the courage of moving on."


Clearly this is saying Tifa isn't important to Cloud, but to THE FAMILY.

You know Vendel, this actually just happened. Someone replied that Tifa's important to the family not Cloud.

 

[Master Bates]

You know Vendel, this actually happened. Someone replied that Tifa's important to the family not Cloud.

That's it. This debate has long been over. Vendel's been playing with all of us right from the start.

 

[Morana]

You know Vendel, this actually happened. Someone replied that Tifa's important to the family not Cloud.

I knew it! Vendel is a closet Clerith.

 

[I Am Not Me]

That moment when you realize that Vendel is actually a Clerith dupe account, made to exist for the express purpose of having rabid Clotis to complain about.

 

[Strangelove]

You know Vendel, this actually just happened. Someone replied that Tifa's important to the family not Cloud.

I was going to say that doesn't even make sense grammar-wise but then I remember all the stuff like Maiden's incorrect "be seen as lovers" and realise being correct doesn't matter. As long as it sounds nice.

For that to be correct the line would have to be いまや家族にとって大切な女性 [which actually says 'important woman to family now]. いまや家族でもある大切な女性 is specifically saying that she is also family now, in addition to being other things and being important doesn't have anything to do with that part.

Reading is about taking in all the words as they are presented and taking the meaning from them, not about looking at what words are there and then making up your own meaning even if you have to change the order around in your head.

 

[Dashell]

I had to fucking check tumblr now, didn't I?... now I'm just pissed off

Someone correct me if I am wrong. But isn't the deviation text that gets thrown around the footnote?

Yes

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

You know Vendel, this actually just happened. Someone replied that Tifa's important to the family not Cloud.

As if Cloud isn't a part of the family. Oh wait, that because Barret's the father, even though he left after a week!

 

[Dashell]

I realize we were done talking about this a few posts ago but... what I really don't get about this whole tumblr thing is no one was like "OH YES SEE? CLOUD AND TIFA ARE MARRIED! TAKE THAT CLERITH!" We were all like, "What? That's not what that says."

So what was the point of picking it apart like that? If I posted "Cloud and Tifa have BABIES!" in Japanese on a blog, will they pick apart that sentence and then tell me it also says that about Cloud and Aerith?

If not even the Clotis believe it (Vendel called WTF on it for crying out loud ), is it really necessary? It's interesting that the Japanese person thought they were married, but... I mean obviously they aren't... I can't believe people were honestly trying to disprove this.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I think people just got confused and mixed it in with the fact Danseru and Hawkeye were/are going to be writing new articles on Cloti/TLT and thought "Cloud is Tifa's wife" was going to be going in there as fact for some reason Very honestly from reading different stuffs from different places I was starting to get confused as well, for example I've still not sure if Tifa's line definitely says "taisetsuna onna" or "taisetsuna josei" Also I was getting confused over the postcard thing as well since some were basically saying the postcard was stating Aerith and Zack were engraved in heart/mind but if I remember right, Hawkeye you found out that it doesn't say that, that heart/mind was lacking this time (so in a sense it was different from Aerith's DoC stuff and the C/T promise?)?

Though writing an article/FAQ about/including in such Tifa is basically "taisetsuna onna", important woman romantically, more or less Cloud's wife in all but name even if she isn't literally/it didn't say literally she was his wife wouldn't particularly bother me personally since Case of Lifestream uses stuffs like "onna" and "koibito" (yes it's that word again!, sorry Lex ) and important existences to the other too as far as I know For me it doesn't take away from Clerith's potential, so I'm fine with people thinking Tifa is important romantically or even wanting to believe personally she is basically his wife, well basically I accept this/Cloti anyway so while this might bother some Clerith's it doesn't bother me (since I'm one of those weird people who thinks Cloud has a place in his heart for both girls and all )

I agree though rather than pick stuffs apart and this going for either side I prefer for example "well this also says this *insert details* here" over "it doesn't say that, it most definitely doesn't and can never say that" (for example)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Wow, I'm glad I stay away from whatever tumblr stuff you guys are looking at.

Let me quickly summarize:
-No one thinks that quote from Tifa's 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile says that she is Cloud's wife
-I will not be mentioning that in my article, nor will Danseru in hers
-Tifa is described as "taisetsu na josei"
-The ACC Post Card Book did not use the "engraved in heart" idiom on Zack & Aerith's shared profile; it simply literally said the same thing instead (that he would never forget them)

 

[Danseru-kun]

About the onna/josei mistake (I forgot it was josei,) someone was nitpicking it and saying the sentence changed its meaning once I put josei than onna, ignoring the fact that I showed the whole sentence to the Japanese. Also, I was being accused of misleading people by making them believe that Tifa's is Cloud's wife using onna and josei because those words doesn't mean wife.

Oh Quex if you're angry, you might be more pissed once you hear this. Remember the post made by Tres pages ago about Tifa's taisetsuna josei similiar to taisetsuna sonzai used for Garnet and Yuna? Look at the Clerith tag in tumblr and they are using it in Aerith's line in COLW.

クラウドは女の友人であり、恋人であり—-大切なものの象徴であり、守るべき存在だった。

"Cloud is her friend, her koibito, someone important whose existence she must protect"

^
CLOUD AND AERITH IS DESCRIBED AS THE SAME WAY AS ZIDAGGER AND TUNA!

No kidding.

And the tumblr thingy, I posted my stuff under the "cloti" tag under " read more." It's an info for Clotis and I'm called misleading, And then someone posted this Aerith thingy in many FF tags.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I shouldn't be surprised. That line has always been used as a claim about Cloud's feelings even though it's talking about how Aerith feels.

Yet I am somehow still surprised. Silly me.

 

[Dashell]

Oh Quex if you're angry, you might be more pissed once you hear this. Remember the post made by Tres pages ago about Tifa's taisetsuna josei similiar to taisetsuna sonzai used for Garnet and Yuna?

... no?


lol yeah I remember, the one he just made like a day ago, right?

Look at the Clerith tag in tumblr and they are using it in Aerith's line in COLW.

クラウドは女の友人であり、恋人であり—-大切なものの象徴であり、守るべき存在だった。

"Cloud is her friend, her koibito, someone important whose existence she must protect"

^
CLOUD AND AERITH IS DESCRIBED AS THE SAME WAY AS ZIDAGGER AND TUNA!

No kidding.

That doesn't piss me off really. It's the mentality that everything that might be Cloti must be extinguished and the fact that... they actually thought we thought Cloud and Tifa were married ... ... I mean they could have just said, "Lol what? NO they're not married" But they picked apart the translation as if it would really matter. Frankly any kind of nitpicking of translation without the actual translator involved annoys me.


I really really don't get that.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

And the reading comprehension just blows off my mind. I'm tempted to post them here myself but that's not my policy so just check the Cloti tag and look at the reblogs of my post.

But I'm theorizing that this is an act by one person supported by just a few of her friends and some dupe accounts. It's not a massive number, but it's pretty vocal. Neutrals are getting pissed with it.

But well, I post it in the Cloti tag, it's not my problem if they hate the tag itself.

 

[Dashell]

Even if it was true... didn't we just establish Cloud and Tifa are referred to the same way?

 

[eleamaya]

Well, the words "important woman" + "part of his family" = "wife" is a simple and quick conclusion by anybody who not knowing FF7 much, as means it's came by neutral people not us. My part of Cloti is fangirling but this thought of course is not valid fact. So, yeah, I agree Quex, why they don't just laugh of this. They even dont have a native Japanese friend like Danseru-kun to justify their counter argument.

 

[Morana]

I don't think anyone believed they were actually married. However, they live together and raise kids together so they are practically married. Either way, my inner CloTi is happy.

 

[Master Bates]

But I'm theorizing that this is an act by one person supported by just a few of her friends and some dupe accounts.

Vendel.


Related note:

Cloud and Tifa aren't married, true, but it's not a stretch to say that they are dancing around the underlying intentions (surprise, raising a family and kids).

P.S. All these tumblr comments... my head!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Related note:

Cloud and Tifa aren't married, true, but it's not a stretch to say that they are dancing around the underlying intentions (surprise, raising a family and kids).

Now, where did you get that id --

... love, marriage and family ...

Ah, right.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Even if it was true... didn't we just establish Cloud and Tifa are referred to the same way?

Well because I made a mistake and put onna instead of josei it makes a whole lot difference and makes me wrong and misleading. Because you know, replacing onna with josei makes it DIFFERENT by making Tifa important to the FAMILY not to Cloud. I'm delusional and rabid for telling everyone that Tifa is Cloud's wife in the Cloti tag because NOTHING in the sentence contains the word wife.

I should listen to the anti-Cloti wandering in the Cloti tag because you know, she is dedicated to the TRUTH and Clerith is NOT the reason why she's correcting me.


Here is what I actually posted and see for yourself my rabidness, delusions and lies:

What my Japanese friend tells about Tifa being described as an “important woman”.
Happy news.
WARNING: Don’t take this literally. Take the English translation as the proper translation. This post says the implication of the line.
Edit: Change “onna” to “josei” and added examples of when taisetsuna josei is used romantically
I was consulting this quote.

“With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman (taisetsuna onna) to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward.”
​

Cloud Strife 10th Anniversary Ultimania Profile
Japanese text with named changed to Tina and Roberto.

いまや家族でもある大切な (taisetsuna) 女性 (josei) チナや、かつての仲間からの声授を受け、ロバト は前進する勇気を取りもど
​

Edit: stray arrows wonderfully pointed out that I missed another particle so I changed it to josei. Note that josei is also woman, which is specifically adult in age.

I asked her this:

Ne, you said taisetsuna onna is romantic right? But how do you say, “she’s an important woman in my baseball team?”
​

What should be used?
​

Here, she tells us that when describing a person who is important, let’s say a president or like someone who knows the cure for cancer, it’s a different word.

She says “taisetsuna,” not “taisetsuna onna/josei,” is not always romantic but remember that when it’s referred to an onna/josei it looks romantic.

Wow
just
wow

Note officially Cloud and Tifa aren’t legally married, but for a Japanese to read that quote and this she’s his wife because she’s an important woman and a member of his family says something.

And she said it&#8217;s romantic and even if we know she&#8217;s not his official &#8220;wife&#8221; so that&#8217;s what matters<3

Other instances where the taisetsuna josei is used via google search:

http://okwave.jp/qa/q7650735.html = someone dealing with a problem that he has another taisetsuna josei other than his wife and it&#8217;s painful
http://oshiete.goo.ne.jp/qa/4962916.html = again another man dealing with having a best friend who turned into a taisetsuna onna when he&#8217;s married
http://ameblo.jp/junichi-shima/entry-10779319525.html = a poem about wanting to be a taisetsuna josei to a man
http://q.hatena.ne.jp/1152614235 = a man asking advice on love about his taisetsuna josei
And I haven&#8217;t found anything else not linked to romance