The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Dashell]

OH so all the dates are in there? XD Okay I gotcha, I thought just Aerith's was. Well there you go. "All 4 dates are included, and we know they aren't all canon. Therefore *something about not just showing canon scenes and the HA scene isn't canon*" something like that

Listen I got some time tonight, would you be willing to scan/take pics of that? I'll translate it the best I can, I want to get this out of the way now because I'll have a busy week ahead of me... okay not really but I have time tonight so

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Sure, give me a few minutes and I'll post those for you, hon.

As for that possible counterargument, it would make sense if, say, Cloud's profile spoke of the Low Affection version. But only one set of events is discussed, so.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Okay, Tifa's date: http://imgur.com/Ltk3l.jpg

Aerith's Memorial Words (middle one is the relevant one): http://imgur.com/yXAN2.jpg

Aerith's date: http://imgur.com/IbTE3.jpg

 

[Dashell]

ugh it's all up and down for the second one.. . oh well, thanks a lot. I'll try to get these done tonight. And thanks again for all your translations

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Whatever you don't get done, I'll finish. Just let me know.

 

[Morana]

Happy New Year!

Thank you for translations Tres. It is good to start a new year with awesome news about CloTi.

 

[Dashell]

Tifa's:

Feelings That Turn the Ferris Wheel

After everyone has gone to sleep for the night, Tifa invites Cloud on a date. However, due to her shy personality, she is not able to tell her feelings face to face; in the end she can only mutter, insinuating something.

Spoiler: Japanese

観覧車にてからまわる想い

みんなが寝静まった夜、 クラウドをデートに誘うティファ. もっとも、 奥手な性格ゆえに、彼に面と向かって想いを伝えられず、 思わせぶりなことをつぶやくだけで終わってしまう。

Aerith's:

Promised Date at the Gold Saucer

The promised repayment of "One date" for requesting Cloud's escort. While staying at the Gold Saucer Cloud is invited on a date, as one promised. Viewing a play and riding on the Ferris wheel, the time spent is fun but brief

Spoiler: Japanese

約束のデートはゴールドソーサで


「デート１回」の報酬を約束にはじまった、 クラウドヘの護衛の依頼. ゴールドソーサーに泊まった夜、約束どおり彼をデートに誘い、 演劇をしたり観覧車に乗ったり、 つかの間とはいえ楽しい時間を過ごす

(Bold part on Tifa's is because I think that it's wrong, but I'm not sure, it was worded really oddly... I think it means she makes him believe something but it doesn't say what... hell I dunno, someone else can explain it better XD)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

(Bold part on Tifa's is because I think that it's wrong, but I'm not sure, it was worded really oddly... I think it means she makes him believe something but it doesn't say what... hell I dunno, someone else can explain it better XD)

You were very close. 思わせぶり means something is being insinuated or suggested. It can be used when describing a flirty person or comment.

However, in this case, it's probably best understood to be saying that "in the end, Tifa could only mumble hints."

Good job, though.

 

[Dashell]

You know... I THOUGHT that might be the case... I think I saw like "suggestive style" out of that or something. .. but for some reason it just seemed off to me that it actually said that so I assumed i was wrong... Damn, should have went with my first thought there.

But thanks

Also interesting to note that it talks about Tifa's feelings but not Aerith's. Though I still need to look at the "I want to meet you" line... I wish there was an easy way to get the text be horizontal though... is there?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Other than transcribing it one character at a time, none that I'm aware of. Do you want me to do that one?

 

[Dashell]

You could probably do it faster since I honestly don't even remember HOW to read some of the kana anymore... it's been that long

(if you can transcribe I can translate though)

 

[Strangelove]

I think the easiest way would be getting used to the Japanese style of writing top to bottom

「わたし、あなたをさがしてる。
あなたに……会いたい」
――ゴールドソーサー：デート中にクラウドに向かって

初恋の人ザックスの面影を見てクラウドに惹かれるが、ともに時間を過ごすなか、クラウドの本当の人格が奥底に眠っていることを察知。彼にその自覚をうながすように、意味深な言葉を告げる。

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's only annoying to me when I'm working with a scan or photo and I have to keep scrolling the screen up and down.


Alright, let's see what I can make of that. Doing this on my phone while waiting to get a haircut, so not really expecting it to be perfect, but that looks like:

"She initially sees in Cloud vestiges of her first love Zack, but after spending time with him, she perceives the true personality sleeping in the depths of his heart. She says to him these meaningful words in the hopes of provoking an awareness of it in him."

 

[Ryushikaze]

So, to sum up what we've learned.

High Highwind- Happened, is romantic.

Aerith- Saw Zack in Cloud originally (specifically mentioning Zack as her first love) then saw that there was someone else in there.

The dates- ALL HAPPENED.
Or at least it simply is irrelevant which date happened. I'ma go with all of them for rule of funny.

I love that there's fairly plain text confirmation of shit we've all been saying for years.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, regardless of how one concerns themselves with the minutiae and logistics of these events, the understanding that we are expected to take of them is plain to read on the page.

 

[Vendel]

Yeah, regardless of how one concerns themselves with the minutiae and logistics of these events, the understanding that we are expected to take of them is plain to read on the page.

What?

 

[skyrise]

So, to sum up what we've learned.

Cloti is canon.

Yeah, sounds about right. Not that it wasn't much obvious to the trained eye but having the higher authorities confirm it (again and again I might add) completes the puzzle.

 

[eleamaya]

Well, I just can't wait all of the FF7 page being translated in big article.
Btw, it's espected that Aerith will have the memorial scene and memorial line at the date. I'm just surprised Tifa even Barret have it, too.
But, for the LTD, we'll match Cloud's page with Aerith's and Tifa's, right? As I remember, Cloud's page doesn't have any reference to that date.
Or, we had got the final conclusion like Ryu said?

 

[Danseru-kun]

I have to say this to everyone, since Risa provided her own take on the Cloti HA HW quotes now that I have showed her the threads.

She said that it's romantic, and like earlier, the phrase used in Cloud and Tifa's profiles has sexual connotations that are only used for a koibito and not a nakama.

HOWEVER, she said a romantic relationship after that is different. It may be a fact that at that moment they exchanged romantic feelings, but becoming a couple can't be proven by that line alone and needs a whole context. So she said that Tifa and Cloud love each other romantically, but being boyfriend/girlfriend is not necessarily proven by those.

^
I will include this in my future analysis BTW so if anyone is reading this outside TLS I will publicize this.

But hey mutual love is enough for me and all of you here know we have the context she requires

 

[skyrise]

HOWEVER, she said a romantic relationship after that is different. It may be a fact that at that moment they exchanged romantic feelings, but becoming a couple can't be proven by that line alone and needs a whole context. So she said that Tifa and Cloud love each other romantically, but being boyfriend/girlfriend is not necessarily proven by those.

Well yeah, that's isn't really new, I mean we do know (post FFVII-stuff) that they have tons of issues to work out; the point of the narrating of the Highwind scene though, is that they indeed love each other on romantic terms, so the foundation is there to progress through that.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, sounds about right. Not that it wasn't much obvious to the trained eye but having the higher authorities confirm it (again and again I might add) completes the puzzle.

It's more than just C/T being canon. It's various other things I've been advocating for some time.

Well, I just can't wait all of the FF7 page being translated in big article.
Btw, it's espected that Aerith will have the memorial scene and memorial line at the date. I'm just surprised Tifa even Barret have it, too.
But, for the LTD, we'll match Cloud's page with Aerith's and Tifa's, right? As I remember, Cloud's page doesn't have any reference to that date.
Or, we had got the final conclusion like Ryu said?

Well, we've had the final conclusion for awhile, anyways. But yeah, this is another plain words confirmation of said conclusion.

I have to say this to everyone, since Risa provided her own take on the Cloti HA HW quotes now that I have showed her the threads.

She said that it's romantic, and like earlier, the phrase used in Cloud and Tifa's profiles has sexual connotations that are only used for a koibito and not a nakama.

HOWEVER, she said a romantic relationship after that is different. It may be a fact that at that moment they exchanged romantic feelings, but becoming a couple can't be proven by that line alone and needs a whole context. So she said that Tifa and Cloud love each other romantically, but being boyfriend/girlfriend is not necessarily proven by those.

^
I will include this in my future analysis BTW so if anyone is reading this outside TLS I will publicize this.

But hey mutual love is enough for me and all of you here know we have the context she requires

Indeed. Live together, belong together, important woman, shared future, view each other as mom and dad of adopted child, 'I'll always have you with me' etc.

Their lives aren't magical sunshine and happiness rainbow farts. They've got troubles. But they work through those and come out stronger for them.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It was mentioned to me in private that someone is using my translation to argue that the quote from Tifa's Memorial Words is about she and Cloud wanting to be business partners. Now, as laughable as the notion is that they would be discussing such a thing on the eve of cosmic conflagration, I also want to remind everyone that hito already corrected me on the "partnership" thing.

I took 相手 ("aite") for the state of being partners/companions, but that's not what it is saying here. It meant "partner" or "companion" in the sense of "the other person." Feel free to look into it, all who see this. "The other person" is a common definition for "aite" alongside the others.

Thus, this is how I will be writing the translation going forward: "Facing the impending final battle with Sephiroth, they at last confirm together their feelings of desire to one another."

For that matter, 求める気持 ち ("motomeru kimochi"; "feelings of desire") is not going to be used to refer to a business partnership. A business partner maybe, but not being in such a partnership.

I also hear that "koui"/"favors" is being argued to mean something other than romantic interest in the line that says Cloud and Tifa have held such an emotion for one another for many years. And this even though it was the same word used on the precious relation charts to say Cecil & Rosa had romantic interest in one another; likewise for Celes & Locke; ditto that for Squall and Rinoa; and even used on VII's charts in reference to Jessie, Aerith and Tifa's interests in Cloud.

Cloud and Tifa have had romantic feelings for one another since childhood. No arguing around this is possible.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Tres, can you also posts scans of the Cecil/Rosa, Squall/Rinoa and Celes/Locke charts? I would greatly appreciate it, but I'll try to find it myself for now.

 

[eleamaya]

HOWEVER, she said a romantic relationship after that is different. It may be a fact that at that moment they exchanged romantic feelings, but becoming a couple can't be proven by that line alone and needs a whole context. So she said that Tifa and Cloud love each other romantically, but being boyfriend/girlfriend is not necessarily proven by those.

Your friend even said that without noticing Cloud's line in Case of Tifa:

“Because I have you this time.”

“You’ve always had me.”

“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

Well she didn't know the whole story about Cloud and Tifa, just the general idea. She doesn't know about the LTD stuff and all and I just consulted her with the use of the language. Anyway, I think it is only proper that we look at all avenues and show everyone we don't use a single line to prove Cloti.

Anyway, it's not far from any language use because even in English I don't think a romantic confession or a night of passion automatically makes two people a couple.

AND MY GOSH

Tres please translate the Promise in the well Cloti scenes ALL OF DEM CLOTI ASDFGHJKL