The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

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Tina Armstrong

Rockstar
AKA
Fackbito, RedGloves, Eileen Galvin, Saria, Lady Croft
"After helping Tifa and Cloud build their home, Barret entrusted his best friend Dyne's orphaned daughter Marlene to the two of them and embarked on a journey." -Case of Barret

I thought this would be a good proof that Barret does not think of Seventh Heaven as his home. Sorry, it just popped into my mind, even though the discussing about this is pretty much dead now.

Ariadne said:
忘れられない(罪の意識)?

"Unable to forget (sense of guilt)?"
Ah, thanks. Even if the magazine is irrelevant, it's funny how it still holds more proof for C/T than what it does for C/A.
 

Master Bates

Do you enjoy your life?
AKA
Mr. Koiwai
Ariadne, Anastar has answered this... sorta. But you won't like the answer... I don't think I like it either, but she has pointed out that square has said Aerith's date is default. She wants them to say, "The high affection version happened." in those words. She doesn't want it to be in a story summary, or on a page of important scenes, or for Nojima to related the scene to risque dialogue. She wants them to say "The high affection scene is canon" or "the high affection scene happened." just like they said, "the default date is Aerith." Even though they've NEVER done this before, that's what she wants... in fact I think because they HAVE never done it before is why she wants it :monster:

Well fuck me sideways and on Mondays. Sorry to say this but this screams to me as a deliberate attempt to ignore blatant hints (despite them very clear statements) because this'll never happen. Guess CloudXTifa will never be canon then. Excuse me while I go pick up my spoon and use it to feed my dog. :monster:


What does it say about Barret and Cid? Feed me please because I'm a curious dog. :awesome:
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
And, yet, despite having said you would acknowledge a blatant statement, you're not doing so. Because you claim that some books acknowledging the existence of both versions disqualifies a statement from another book that one version in particular happened. Really, more than just one other book since the Memorial Album goes with the high affection scene only, and since it was selected as one of the four Impressive Scenes in the U20.
I have a question about this but I'm not sure if I'm going to word it right. I know you mentioned that Terra and the moogles was mentioned as one of the Impressive Scenes for that game (I think you did anyway), do any other games have "Impressive Scenes" that have multiple versions? If so, do they always go with the Impressive Scene being the one that's generally considered canon?

EDIT:
If Nomura ever gave a straight answer to anything, the world would implode upon itself.

I think the closest thing I've ever seen was "No, Namine has nothing to do with Kairi" which turned out to be bullshit.

I still think he's the best troll of Squeenix, and regularly goes onto forums pretending to be anonymous just to start flamewars.

I like how people who don't even view this topic came into this topic to thank this post :monster:
 
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ClerithRaven

DIE-HARD CLERITH
AKA
Ren, ClerithRaven, Lunafresca's Raven
Again why do Marlene's thought on the matter, matter?

It's Marlene being cute. It has no bearing on the family dynamic.

Children are observant little critters. Maybe she saw how she, Barret, and Tifa were like a family already-all right, exclude Barret-and somehow, Cloud wasn't.

It is cute actually.

He has personal photos in his office? *gasp*

Sarcasm suits you.

:p
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Maybe she saw how she, Barret, and Tifa were like a family already-all right, exclude Barret-and somehow, Cloud wasn't.
Maybe she was drawing one of her little pictures at the time and was just saying she was going to draw Cloud in it. :monster:
 

Tina Armstrong

Rockstar
AKA
Fackbito, RedGloves, Eileen Galvin, Saria, Lady Croft
Why isn't Barret included here btw? :monster:
5i5m7.jpg
He should be next to Cloud and Tifa if he belonged to the family. Right?
 

Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
I love how this is being overly complicated. I have girlfriends that mean the absolute world to me, they are my sisters and in my heart, they are my family. We even refer to each other as family. I have a husband and 3 kids. They are my family. We refer to each other as family. There is an all inclusive 'family' of friends and relatives and then there is MY family. It's not complicated, really.

Also, in regard to Cloud's 'bedroom'...this was settled a long time ago. It's his office, and the drinking quote actually translates to 'Go drink in room', not YOUR room. It simply implies 'go drink in another room'.

I'm not gonna bother to comment on the same old song and dance double standards I'm reading, but I'd like to point out that none--not a single one--arguing that Cloud loved Aerith can get that pairing to even level up to the standards they are requiring to prove Cloud loved Tifa. If you want to argue that someone saying they want to spend the rest of their life with someone isn't a declaration of affection, then you should probably use a spoon whenever you eat. Just to be safe.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Ariadne, Anastar has answered this... sorta. But you won't like the answer... I don't think I like it either, but she has pointed out that square has said Aerith's date is default. She wants them to say, "The high affection version happened." in those words. She doesn't want it to be in a story summary, or on a page of important scenes, or for Nojima to related the scene to risque dialogue. She wants them to say "The high affection scene is canon" or "the high affection scene happened." just like they said, "the default date is Aerith." Even though they've NEVER done this before, that's what she wants... in fact I think because they HAVE never done it before is why she wants it :monster:

So, it IS the press release mentality, then.
Good. I feel no guilt in mocking her standard and her double standard, then.
Because without adding additional elements willy nilly as Aanastar has done, the quotes of the matter rather undeniably declare that the High Version occured.
Even if they didn't, we can also say that multiple sources say that feelings were shared that night, and one source said the feelings were romantic. And I know she's going to hem and haw about P232 but she's not reading that page for comprehension anyways.

I have a question about this but I'm not sure if I'm going to word it right. I know you mentioned that Terra and the moogles was mentioned as one of the Impressive Scenes for that game (I think you did anyway), do any other games have "Impressive Scenes" that have multiple versions? If so, do they always go with the Impressive Scene being the one that's generally considered canon?

You mean Terra and the Children as an optional yet impressive scene?
The fact that we're arguing whether being called out as one of the most important scenes of a game can make one version of a scene official over another version really just boggles my goddamn mind. The makers themselves are effectively screaming 'THIS IS IMPORTANT!' and some people are going 'LALALALALA IT COULD BE EITHER LALALALA'
Yes, there are two versions. Only one of them is so important as to beat out every other scene in the game for a place among the top four most important scenes in the game.

EDIT:

I like how people who don't even view this topic came into this topic to thank this post :monster:

You think those people don't view this topic? You're more naive than I expected.

Why isn't Barret included here btw? :monster:
5i5m7.jpg
He should be next to Cloud and Tifa if he belonged to the family. Right?

There are actually several family drawing scattered about the scenes. Most of them put Cloud and Tifa next to each other.
I mean, if we're arguing that Marlene's an observant child, she's observing that the two of them are together.
I'll get to AerBear and Anastar's tiddlywinks later.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Can you show me?

At present, no. I'm not near a copy of the film and won't be for about another 12 hours. I do think you can catch them in the film, though they are at odd angles and corners of frames.

Much like Marlene's old dress in the frame already presented, they can be hard to catch if you're not paying attention.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I have a question about this but I'm not sure if I'm going to word it right. I know you mentioned that Terra and the moogles was mentioned as one of the Impressive Scenes for that game (I think you did anyway), do any other games have "Impressive Scenes" that have multiple versions? If so, do they always go with the Impressive Scene being the one that's generally considered canon?

Nah, FFVI is the only other one with optional/alterable Impressive Scenes. The scene with Terra and the orphans is completely optional (though of invaluable significance to Terra's personal story arc), while the dialogue in the scene in which the Returners confront Kefka is alterable based on who the player takes in there, and whether Shadow is alive to even be taken in obviously.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Nah, FFVI is the only other one with optional/alterable Impressive Scenes. The scene with Terra and the orphans is completely optional (though of invaluable significance to Terra's personal story arc), while the dialogue in the scene in which the Returners confront Kefka is alterable based on who the player takes in there, and whether Shadow is alive to even be taken in obviously.

Though, by the logic of the current thread, we can't say that everyone was taken in to fight Kefka, since we have no confirmation from later in the story that that actually happened.
So, obviously, Gau and Relm killed Kefka all on their own and everyone else is a freeloading bastard.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things… happened.” “That’s right…”
“But when I think about how many times I’ve thought about how I was going to start a new life, it’s funny.”
“Why?”
“Because I’ve always failed everything.”
“That’s not funny.”
“After this … I think I’ll be okay.”
Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again.
“Because I have you this time.”

“You’ve always had me.”

“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.
"Hey Tifa, I know I rejected you and we don't have very strong feelings for each other. But I can't wait to start a life with you. Just saying."
 

Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
Cloud answered with another smile.

Y'know, bad-ass stoic Cloud smiles quite a few times at his 'just friends with benefits' pal Tifa and it means jackshit by some logic standards and yet getting Jenova-mind-fuck Cloud to mock you in game and laugh about it is 'OMG TWU WUV'.
 
Y'know, bad-ass stoic Cloud smiles quite a few times at his 'just friends with benefits' pal Tifa and it means jackshit by some logic standards and yet getting Jenova-mind-fuck Cloud to mock you in game and laugh about it is 'OMG TWU WUV'.

I always found that part funny. How the ultimania flat out says "awww isn't it cute that cloud laughs with aeris. but don't forget, he's mind controlled atm."
 

Zee

wangxian married
AKA
Zee
what if jenova/aeris

wait i think this is the wrong thread for that....

anyhoo jenova seemed to be controlling cloud more like a sleeper agent rather than "laugh at that girl's jokes PUPPET" so I don't think Jenova screwing with his head has anything to do with enjoying Aeris' company so I still think his laughing at her dumb jokes is cute...

Y'know, bad-ass stoic Cloud smiles

I never really saw Cloud as badass stoic? I thought he was just emotionally crippled and had a difficult time expressing his feelings. He just comes across more nerdy than badass to me.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
anyhoo jenova seemed to be controlling cloud more like a sleeper agent rather than "laugh at that girl's jokes PUPPET" so I don't think Jenova screwing with his head has anything to do with enjoying Aeris' company so I still think his laughing at her dumb jokes is cute...

The Ultimania does conflate the two, however, for whatever reason. 'He has a chuckle here, while his mind's being influenced.'
Still, it's worth noting that of Cloud's rare smiles, Tifa seems to get them the most, getting two in the space of a minute.

I never really saw Cloud as badass stoic? I thought he was just emotionally crippled and had a difficult time expressing his feelings. He just comes across more nerdy than badass to me.

You say that like one cannot be a badass and a nerd. Granted, you're correct, Cloud is much more socially awkward than Vampire Hunter D stoic, but that doesn't eliminate his ability to be a badass.
 

Zee

wangxian married
AKA
Zee
The Ultimania does conflate the two, however, for whatever reason. 'He has a chuckle here, while his mind's being influenced.'

I figured that just meant he was still mentally fractured during that time not that Jenova was mind controlling his laugh or anything.
 

Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
what if jenova/aeris


anyhoo jenova seemed to be controlling cloud more like a sleeper agent rather than "laugh at that girl's jokes PUPPET" so I don't think Jenova screwing with his head has anything to do with enjoying Aeris' company so I still think his laughing at her dumb jokes is cute...

Technically he insults her and then laughs about it. I find that rather OOC for Cloud, but I'm not claiming he didn't enjoy her company after he gave up trying to ditch her. Just that particular scene is brought up way too often as 'proof' for an argument that holds no water.

I never really saw Cloud as badass stoic? I thought he was just emotionally crippled and had a difficult time expressing his feelings. He just comes across more nerdy than badass to me.

100% agreed. He's an emotional 'tard, but his reputation (much like Squall's) is being emotionless and bad-ass. Usually by normal people that don't spend their free time dissecting video games...

Sidenote: Aerith/Jenova/Tifa tentacle love for the win?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I figured that just meant he was still mentally fractured during that time not that Jenova was mind controlling his laugh or anything.

Yeah, I don't think that's what they were suggesting at all. It just seemed like an odd thing to emphasize when we should all know it already.

And yes, Peter Parker- before his absolute character assasination of recent years- is an excellent analogue for Cloud.
Almost too perfect... Quick, check Normal Osborne for hair products and oversized swords!
 

Tifabelle

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tifabelle, Nathan Drake, Locke Cole, Kain Highwind, Yamcha, Arya Stark
Technically he insults her and then laughs about it. I find that rather OOC for Cloud, but I'm not claiming he didn't enjoy her company after he gave up trying to ditch her. Just that particular scene is brought up way too often as 'proof' for an argument that holds no water.

He's not insulting her. He's teasing her. There's such a huge difference.

And yeah, I do believe Cloud's laugh is genuine there. Just not to forget that he's under Jenova's influence. Not that the laugh came from Jenova.
 
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