The Love Triangle of FFVII Part IV: A New Hope

[Fairheartstrife]

Why does it matter Aerith is only half Cetra? Sephiroth isn't all Jenova yet he is stronger than Jenova. Hybrids are supposed to be superior to the originals, comining traits of both species.

Also perhaps you can tell me what the supplementary material says but the obvious implication in the game seems to be that Aerith is te one who uses the Lifestream to stop Meteor. So....did any pureblood Cetra ever stop giant planet--killing rocks?

They didn't NEED to. **headdesk** Are you seriously asking me to answer a hypothetical on a situation that NEVER fucking happened previously?

PURE Cetra diffuse. So, yes, her being HALF is relevant. She is not a hybrid super-species. She is Ancient and human.

Which again, is only relevant because EVERYTHING eventually diffuses. Cetra take longer, but they, too will become lifestream soup. Period.

Except it's canon Sephiroth has te strongest willpower of anyone iN FFVII, which would include every Cetra ever. So if they can do it, why can't he?

Because he DOESN'T! Seriously? Lifestream Black TELLS US THIS. I am not pulling theories out of my ass. We are TOLD that he relies on the memories of OTHERS to linger.

Also he seemed to be perfectly dead after 7 yet returned in AC with his same old personality and beliefs. So....

Whut? What personality? What beliefs? The insane hatred of Cloud? The desire to destroy the planet? ALL of which he would be remembered for? Where is the point in that? Because I'm not getting where you're going.

And, as I said earlier, death is nothing more than another stage of existence. There's no reason you couldn't fall in love after death as long as you retain your original feelings.

DEAD IS DEAD.

NO, you CANNOT fall in love AFTER you die. I can't believe I'm having to argue that point. At all. Even on this thread.

 

[Gabranth]

They didn't NEED to. **headdesk** Are you seriously asking me to answer a hypothetical on a situation that NEVER fucking happened previously?

I was pointing out she did something impressive and the Cetra did not. That's all. Calm down.

PURE Cetra diffuse. So, yes, her being HALF is relevant. She is not a hybrid super-species. She is Ancient and human.

I never said she wouldn't become one with the Lifestream.

Because he DOESN'T! Seriously? Lifestream Black TELLS US THIS. I am not pulling theories out of my ass. We are TOLD that he relies on the memories of OTHERS to linger.

I don't see how this proves my point wrong. His willpower allowed him to latch onto those memories.

Whut? What personality? What beliefs? The insane hatred of Cloud? The desire to destroy the planet? ALL of which he would be remembered for? Where is the point in that? Because I'm not getting where you're going.

He didn't want to destroy the planet. Well not in the Kefka kinda of way. He wanted to transform the planet more like and travel the cosmos to replicate Jenova.
That's kind of a belief and ideal.

DEAD IS DEAD.

NO, you CANNOT fall in love AFTER you die.

Why not? If you still feel like you did as a human being, what stops you from loving after death?
Again, I can point out many pieces of fiction where this exact thing happens.
If the author wants dead people to fall in love then they will. What you or I think of that doesn't matter.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

The problem with "Can Aerith love Cloud after death" once again brings up the problem with the metaphysics of FF7's world. Yes, she's dead, but she still exists in a sense. She still thinks, still feels, is still aware, at least until she's diffused into the Lifestream in full. In the FF7 world at least, "dead" doesn't mean "you no longer exist", your spirit/soul/whatever endures, at least for a while. Within the Lifestream, spirits can still feel emotion.

I know you guys hate it when it gets brought up, but Maiden shows that those in the Lifestream, depending on why they aren't totally absorbed, retain their emotions from life and cannot move on until they let go of their connections to the world of the living. Pres. Shinra in particular I recall, is emotionally "frozen" or whatever you want to call it, and has such a firm grip on his thoughts and feelings he can't move on.

Now, what they says for Aerith, who is either in the process of being absorbed or was in full by the time AC ended, make up your own mind I suppose. Considering what Maiden and CotL tell us, I'm wondering if it works like, Aerith's emotions can't change after death no, but her emotions from life remain with her. At which point it goes back to debating if she loved Cloud in life or not.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm going to lock... Vendel and Drake in a closet together so that they can either fight to the death like they so want to... or make peace and cease their "showdown of fate" within this thread.

Seriously guys, you're subtle jabs at each other are as obvious as a butcher knife to the face. No more flames and insults. Right now.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Seriously guys, you're subtle jabs at each other are as obvious as a butcher knife to the face. No more flames and insults. Right now.

Starting after your post, right?

 

[Strangelove]

Seriously guys, you are subtle jabs at each other are as obvious as a butcher knife to the face.

You are.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I was pointing out she did something impressive and the Cetra did not. That's all. Calm down.

The Cetra STOPPED Jenova the first time. And she did something WITH CETRA HELP. She did not single handedly whip the lifestream into a frenzy to defend the planet. **eyeroll**

I don't see how this proves my point wrong. His willpower allowed him to latch onto those memories.

No,l you are trying to imply that people can fall in love after death. In some sort of conscious, developmental way, when NO they can't. Even the strongest willed person had to hold OTHER people's thoughts/memories/impressions to maintain a semblance of himself, so I find it extremely hard to believe someone would have the ability within the lifestream to fall in love. Seriously?

He didn't want to destroy the planet. Well not in the Kefka kinda of way. He wanted to transform the planet more like and travel the cosmos to replicate Jenova.
That's kind of a belief and ideal.

He wanted to destroy the planet. Strangle the lifestream, I believe. Where does he say he wants to replicate Jenova? Where the hell are you getting that? More to the point. WHY would he want to?

Why not? If you still feel like you did as a human being, what stops you from loving after death?

You're running on the assumption of love prior to death, which is NOT THE SAME as falling in love AFTER death. WTF. Are you trolling?

Again, I can point out many pieces of fiction where this exact thing happens.
If the author wants dead people to fall in love then they will. What you or I think of that doesn't matter.

Except that Nojima DOESN'T imply this happens. AT ALL. So, in THIS particular fiction, NO IT DOESN'T. You can point out 6000 different fictions if you want. They matter squat. What matters is the FFVII universe and the evidence found therein. Of which there is NONE that imply that a person is capable of falling in love AFTER they die.

@Drake: No one is arguing that emotions can't linger in the spirit after death, until diffusion. What is being argued is the asinine idea that someone can fall in love after they die.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

@Drake: No one is arguing that emotions can't linger in the spirit after death, until diffusion. What is being argued is the asinine idea that someone can fall in love after they die.

So its emotions lingering versus emotions developing. A fair stance to have either way. FF7 seems to lean more to the lingering side, if Maiden and CotL are an indicaiton. Yes, I brought up Maiden again. :p

 

[Gabranth]

The Cetra STOPPED Jenova the first time. And she did something WITH CETRA HELP. She did not single handedly whip the lifestream into a frenzy to defend the planet. **eyeroll**

Well you see, I asked that already. Was she the one who used the Lifestream to stop Meteor. you didn't say "no" so i assumed I was right.

No,l you are trying to imply that people can fall in love after death. In some sort of conscious, developmental way, when NO they can't. Even the strongest willed person had to hold OTHER people's thoughts/memories/impressions to maintain a semblance of himself, so I find it extremely hard to believe someone would have the ability within the lifestream to fall in love. Seriously?

Sephiroth held onto Hatred. Aerith held onto love. What's so hard to believe about that?

Where does he say he wants to replicate Jenova?

Sephiroth: What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as my vessel. Just as Mother did long ago.

Granted this is the English version. If it's totally different in Japanese, I'm sorry.

More to the point. WHY would he want to?

I have no idea. He said it. Speculating on his motives doesn't invalidate the point.

You're running on the assumption of love prior to death, which is NOT THE SAME as falling in love AFTER death. WTF. Are you trolling?

No but you seem to be flipping out. Calm down already.

Except that Nojima DOESN'T imply this happens. AT ALL. So, in THIS particular fiction, NO IT DOESN'T. You can point out 6000 different fictions if you want. They matter squat. What matters is the FFVII universe and the evidence found therein. Of which there is NONE that imply that a person is capable of falling in love AFTER they die.

Well okay, that I can agree with.
But there's been plenty of evidence presented in this topic to show Aerith loves Cloud even before death
So...isn't this really a moot argument?

 

[Celes Chere]

No but you seem to be flipping out. Calm down already.

Nah, FairHeartStrife has Shizuo rage. It totally turns me on. I MEAN. It's nothing personal.

I'm going to lock... Vendel and Drake in a closet together so that they can either fight to the death like they so want to...

^Vendel and Drake in said closet

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Impossible, Vendel's already in the closet.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Celes, everything I do turns you on.

Also, for real, this shit doesn't get me upset. The day the wankings of a fandom forum ignite genuine rage in me, I'll call a therapist. This is fun for me. I say fuck a lot and use CAPS when common sense doesn't cut it. I will not hold your hand in a debate and I will not coddle over-sensitive tweenagers (or anyone, really). I am more likely to be laughing and shaking my head on my end than anything else.

So for the last fucking time, I am not 'mad' about anything LTD related. Misogyny and the abuse of the literary medium, yes, that shit pisses me off. Debating over Materia Jesus and which version of the Buster Sword she wants Climhazzarding her...not so much.

Good? Good.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Well you see, I asked that already. Was she the one who used the Lifestream to stop Meteor. you didn't say "no" so i assumed I was right.

you know what they say about assuming...

Sephiroth held onto Hatred. Aerith held onto love. What's so hard to believe about that?

Not a fucking thing, except that's not what you were saying. AT ALL. You stated, repeatedly that someone could fall in love AFTER they died. And I called bullshit.

Sephiroth: What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as my vessel. Just as Mother did long ago.

Granted this is the English version. If it's totally different in Japanese, I'm sorry.

I have no idea. He said it. Speculating on his motives doesn't invalidate the point.

Replicate as in to copy her plan? Got it, I thought you meant replicate as in recreate Jenova. Difference.

No but you seem to be flipping out. Calm down already.

I. Am. Calm.

Look, sweetheart, I am going pretty easy on you here, so how about you stop pretending I'm pulling some irrational flip-out.

Well okay, that I can agree with.
But there's been plenty of evidence presented in this topic to show Aerith loves Cloud even before death
So...isn't this really a moot argument?

I'm not the one that said you could fall in love post-mort.

 

[Gabranth]

Well I didn't ask for coddling. I just prefer a more calm discussion. Pointless profanity is...pointless.

And all I said was you could fall in love post-mortem. It's not impossible. Perhaps in FFVII it is but not in all fiction.

 

[mentaz]

NO, you CANNOT fall in love AFTER you die.

well, you can if you count Corpse Bride

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

well, you can if you count Corpse Bride

Or Bleach.

 

[Gabranth]

Bleach has the worst afterlife ever.

Not only can you still bleed and get diseases, you have to live in what is essentially Feudal Japan.

 

[ShuShu]

you have to live in what is essentially Feudal Japan.

UM opposite of the worst afterlife ever, imo.

At least its better than like... Iunno... Hellfire and shit. Or being a mindless skeleton.

Diseases could be gone without though.

 

[Gabranth]

Well I was using a bit of hyperbole.
There are many worse afterlifes than the Soul Society. I would imagine Bleach's Hell is worse than it for instance.

I merely meant that the afterlife in Bleach is...really not that different from actual life.
I mean what kind of ghost gets Tuberculosis?

 

[ShuShu]

Well I was using a bit of hyperbole.
There are many worse afterlifes than the Soul Society. I would imagine Bleach's Hell is worse than it for instance.

Ah sorry x3 <3 Your right.

I merely meant that the afterlife in Bleach is...really not that different from actual life. I mean what kind of ghost gets Tuberculosis? </SPAN>

Lol I havent watched much Bleach but would they die again or just live with it? xD Dying twice is pretty unfortunate, I guess thats how Sephiroth must feel by now.

I more or less meant living in feudal japan would be awesome, personally <3 All the other stuff not so catchy.

 

[Celes Chere]

OR FULL MOON

THAT SHOW IS ALL ABOUT FALLING IN LOVE AFTER YOU'RE DEAD

 

[Makoeyes987]

Bleach has the worst afterlife ever.

Not only can you still bleed and get diseases, you have to live in what is essentially Feudal Japan.

Then don't suck and get into the Seireitei by being a badass.

And yes, you can die in the spirit world of Bleach. When a soul dies, they then reincarnate as a human again, and the cycle goes on.

And while Bleach is awesomesauce lets try to focus on the spirit world of FFVII more, yah?

 

[Gabranth]

I more or less meant living in feudal japan would be awesome, personally <3 All the other stuff not so catchy.

After playing the Onimusha games, Feudal Japan is the last place I want to be. Damn Nobunaga selling his soul and letting the demons invade and eat us.

And while Bleach is awesomesauce lets try to focus on the spirit world of FFVII more, yah?

Okie dokie. So is Sephiroth dead dead now? Will he dissipate into the Lifestream and thus prevent another sequel from being made?

 

[Celes Chere]

And while Bleach is awesomesauce lets try to focus on the spirit world of FFVII more, yah?

But I want RukiHime porn.

NINIRA, WHERE ARE YOOOOU

 

[Eerie]

Hopefully, he will. I do not wish for more Sephiroth in the next FFVII installment. They need to expand with what they have, not rehash the same things again. Especially since I think Aerith [and Zack, for that matter] got a pretty neat ending.

It's like Dr Who and his compagnons. While I loved them to bits [seriously, those are awesome girls], I didn't want them to have their endings messed up with because as sad as it could be, it was simply beautiful [for 10th's compagnons]. And while I dislike Aerith, she had a good ending, and messing up with it once again would be... way over the top.

But we know SE. They'd probably want to rehash, less tiring to think off stuff

Edit: I truly hate RukiOri porn. Please not here thank you