The Official "How many parts?" Thread

[Roundhouse]

I am expecting P2 to open with a monologue, ala LOTR:

GENESIS: The world is changed.

[We see ZACK surviving his last stand.]

I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air.

Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it...history became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, I passed out of all knowledge, floating in my water prison. Until today. For the time will soon come when I will shape the fortunes of all.

[We see in slow motion GENESIS striding off into the sunset in the direction of KALM, cape billowing behind him. Fade to black. Black screen slowly turns into KALM, and we see CLOUD and co rushing into the inn, dripping with rainwater.]

[Title appears on screen: The Returning Rhapsody.]

 

[Wol]

If I had to make a baseless guess for how part 2 starts, it'd be something like this:

Starts in medias res with Cloud and Sephiroth in the truck on the way to Nibelhiem. Truck gets stalled out by monsters, leading to the crew having to walk the rest of the way. This is where tutorials about fighting enemies would be, and possibly team attack mechanics. Sephiroth is a far more valuable asset in these fights than Cloud, and has more competent AI than normal party members because he can't be controlled directly. The tutorial boss would be the dragon, which would be fought later on and not right after the truck crashes. After beating it. this is when we are shown that this is Cloud telling the rest of the party his story. The flashback plays out mostly like it did in the original game, with added detail. Maybe some allusion to Genesis, considering his involvement in the Crisis Core version? The flashback is the first chapter, or maybe even the first two.

Once Cloud is done with his story, the party goes to sleep in the inn. In the middle of the night, all of their equipment is stolen by a mysterious it's Yuffie come on you know it is. Kalm serves as the sector 7 of this game, as the town that introduces you to side quests and NPCs. The framing device is you looking for information on the thief who stole your things, as well as doing quests to get new materia and equipment (the mandatory quest would get everyone some new weapons, maybe killing monsters for the shop owner with them?) Eventually you find Yuffie somewhere, and she serves as the boss of this chapter. After beating her, we flashback to the new intergrade scene when they arrive outside Kalm, except this time we see Yuffie spot them and recognize Barret and Tifa as members of the splinter cell. She follows them and sees them go into the inn to get out of the rain, and then waits for her moment to steal the stuff and do whatever with it. Why does she steal your things? I dunno. After this flashback we see that it's part of her explaining herself to the party, and what her situation is. Her relation with the other Avalanche group is enough for the party to tentatively accept her into the fold, and then they continue from there.

All of this will be wrong, but that's my best guess.

Not a single Whisper... beautifully written masterpiece storyline.

 

[LNK]

Not a single Whisper... beautifully written masterpiece storyline.

Oh don't worry. The Whisper stuff will come after that. Ody was just baiting you haha

 

[Odysseus]

They're dead now, we don't talk about them anymore.

 

[LNK]

They're dead now, we don't talk about them anymore.

or are they dead? Hmmmmm

 

[Odysseus]

ded

 

[LNK]

ded

They are fated to return with Genesis

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The Whispers aren't dead. After the final Sephiroh fight, Sephiroth sends Whispers after Cloud and Co. as they escape from the Singularity. So... I expect them to show up again. Under Sephiroth's control.

Keep in mind he *wanted* us to go into the Singularity in the first place. Kinda have to wonder why that was...

 

[cold_spirit]

We don't see Cloud and co leave the Singularity, right? Sephiroth seemingly absorbs the Whispers pre-fight, Cloud lands the final blow on Sephiroth (which he doesn't even try to block), we immediately visit the Edge of Creation, then the ending scene plays out where the Whispers dissipate into a golden rain and the party is outside of Midgar.

Considering the Whispers don't dissipate into golden rain when defeated in battle, it's definitely an intentional effect in the ending. I don't know what else it could represent if not their ultimate end.

 

[Roundhouse]

You cannot kill Ringwraiths. Eowyn isn't around in VII.

 

[LNK]

We don't see Cloud and co leave the Singularity, right? Sephiroth seemingly absorbs the Whispers pre-fight, Cloud lands the final blow on Sephiroth (which he doesn't even try to block), we immediately visit the Edge of Creation, then the ending scene plays out where the Whispers dissipate into a golden rain and the party is outside of Midgar.

Considering the Whispers don't dissipate into golden rain when defeated in battle, it's definitely an intentional effect in the ending. I don't know what else it could represent if not their ultimate end.

i'm starting to wonder if that explosion that happened during Zack's scene had to do with Zirconiade being destroyed

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Zicronaide isn't destroyed until October, 5th. Which is a least five days (probably more) after Zack's Last Stand.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

We don't see Cloud and co leave the Singularity, right? Sephiroth seemingly absorbs the Whispers pre-fight, Cloud lands the final blow on Sephiroth (which he doesn't even try to block), we immediately visit the Edge of Creation, then the ending scene plays out where the Whispers dissipate into a golden rain and the party is outside of Midgar.

Obsidian is referring to Seph throwing Whispers at the party after their battle.

 

[LNK]

Zicronaide isn't destroyed until October, 5th. Which is a least five days (probably more) after Zack's Last Stand.

What if Zack was knocked unconscious from the battle for a week? Now, I'm not saying this is the most probable explanation to the explosion, but there is enough evidence to support it. The battle with Whisper Harpinger happened at least two months after Zack's battle. If going by timeline, the Zirconiade theory would be the more probable answer

• The Turks destroy Zirconiade and as Zirconiade's domain shatters the shockwave destroys a part of Sector 6. Back in Midgar, Aerith sees the shattered particles of Zirconiade's domain fall to the ground, thinking it's snow.

To me, this also alludes to all the particles floating in the air after the explosion

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What if Zack was knocked unconscious from the battle for a week? Now, I'm not saying this is the most probable explanation to the explosion, but there is enough evidence to support it.

But ... there's not any evidence to support it ...

The explosion that knocks him to the ground is the only explosion depicted in that scene. The camera angles and lighting all remain consistent with just this one explosion.

The Turks destroy Zirconiade and as Zirconiade's domain shatters the shockwave destroys a part of Sector 6.

That idea about Zirconiade's destruction affecting Sector 6 is an old, long-debunked one.

 

[Roundhouse]

I love how remake discussion has educated some of us on all sorts of wierd stuff from the compilation. Recently it was this random Rayleigh person, now it's Lemon/Zirconaide.

 

[Tetsujin]

I'm not sure why it would be Zirconiade, it's not even part of this story
We clearly see the singularity happen from Zack's point of view and then it blows up.

That idea about Zirconiade's destruction affecting Sector 6 is an old, long-debunked one.

And yet it keeps popping up and edits on the Wiki keep being reverted. It's annoying but I guess that's what happens when no one in the west played the games for themselves.

 

[LNK]

But ... there's not any evidence to support it ...

I'd argue the dates being so close and Aerith's comments of the particles looking like snow, is enough evidence. More so than the explosion having to do with the defeat of Whisper Harpinger.

That idea about Zirconiade's destruction affecting Sector 6 is an old, long-debunked one.

I was going off the ffwiki timeline. Is that timeline wrong? (For the most part)

 

[LNK]

I'm not sure why it would be Zirconiade, it's not even part of this story

Neither was deep ground, but yet we got some in part 1 and this DLC.

The devs have taken compilation stuff and tweaked them to fit the retelling of FF7s story. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with the final boss of a compilation title. Especially since that boss was destroyed during the same exact time that the OG took place (close to)

Edit: I watched the Zack scene again. There was a dome (of the whispers) around Midgar. The explosion happens and then the gold looking particles float down to the ground. It didn't look like the singularity

 

[Tetsujin]

Neither was deep ground, but yet we got some in part 1 and this DLC.

This feels like a non sequitur
Zirconiade has literally nothing to do with anything that happened in Remake and wasn't even mentioned once. Why would Zack suddenly see it exploding in the ending? How would that logically follow from the events preceding it and what relevance would it even have?

The devs have taken compilation stuff and tweaked them to fit the retelling of FF7s story. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with the final boss of a compilation title. Especially since that boss was destroyed during the same exact time that the OG took place (close to)

Edit: I watched the Zack scene again. There was a dome (of the whispers) around Midgar. The explosion happens and then the gold looking particles float down to the ground. It didn't look like the singularity

The dome of whispers *is* the singularity.

 

[LNK]

Zirconiade has literally nothing to do with anything that happened in Remake and wasn't even mentioned once. Why would Zack suddenly see it exploding in the ending? How would that logically follow from the events preceding it and what relevance would it even have?

I see what you're saying. But, that doesn't automatically disqualify this theory. I have no idea what the devs would do in future parts if I was right. I'm just saying there is evidence. Weiss and Nero didn't get mentioned in part 1, but we were set up with the deep ground stuff. The same could be said if the explosion was Zirconiade. It could be brought up in part 2.

The dome of whispers *is* the singularity.

What proof do we have that it was the singularity? From what I read and saw of Before Crisis, wasn't there a dome around Zirconiade? Maybe the Whispers were ensuring the destruction went on as fated.

 

[Tetsujin]

I see what you're saying. But, that doesn't automatically disqualify this theory. I have no idea what the devs would do in future parts if I was right. I'm just saying there is evidence. Weiss and Nero didn't get mentioned in part 1, but we were set up with the deep ground stuff. The same could be said if the explosion was Zirconiade. It could be brought up in part 2.

Yes, Deepground was part of the story because it was...part of the story. Zirconiade was not present, set up, hinted at, mentioned, seen or otherwise relevant to anything in the ending.

What proof do we have that it was the singularity? From what I read and saw of Before Crisis, wasn't there a dome around Zirconiade? Maybe the Whispers were ensuring the destruction went on as fated.

We literally see the dome of whispers explode.
You can still see the swarms of whispers dissolve when the explosion happens. Meanwhile we don't see Zirconiade at all, which outside of happening at a later date and at least past 3am also would happen with a whole-ass floating final dungeon high above Midgar, not surrounding it like the Whispers do.

 

[LNK]

Yes, Deepground was part of the story because it was...part of the story. Zirconiade was not present, set up, hinted at, mentioned, seen or otherwise relevant to anything in the ending.

I'm arguing semantics here, but we were never explicitly told that was Deep ground. New players to ff7 had no idea what the underground lab was. We guessed it was Deep ground because we aren't new.

SE has introduced something at the end of the game with no prior set up earlier. (FF9?)

We literally see the dome of whispers explode

That doesn't mean it was the singularity though. If it was, why was all of Midgar inside the singularity prior to the beginning of the game in the first place? I know Aerith was the only one who could see the whispers at that point, but how come the explosion is never mentioned in the game? At the very least, she could've mentioned it.

Meanwhile we don't see Zirconiade at all, which outside of happening at a later date and at least past 3am also would happen with a whole-ass floating final dungeon high above Midgar, not surrounding it like the Whispers do.

Last Order handled the Nibelheim Incident differently than all other FF7 media did. Maybe remake is handling Zirconiade a little differently.

Remake does mean telling the same story differently.

 

[Tetsujin]

That doesn't mean it was the singularity though.

I mean...yes. Yes it does.
The singularity bridges different points in time. Why do you think us fighting the plot ghosts retroactively made Zack survive his encounter with Shinra?
The Whispers form a dome around Midgar. We flash back to Zack and see the very same swarm of Whispers around Midgar. Later we defeat the Whispers and Sephiroth inside the Singularity and back in Zack's timeline it explodes into golden particles. We then see sector 7 in the present day with the very same golden particles. Visually it's made clear it's the same thing and that it happens across two points in time "simultaneously".

If it was, why was all of Midgar inside the singularity prior to the beginning of the game in the first place? I know Aerith was the only one who could see the whispers at that point, but how come the explosion is never mentioned in the game? At the very least, she could've mentioned it.

Because it didn't happen for her. Same reason why Zack wasn't always alive. It's a different timeline.

 

[waw]

So, if I'm not mistake, someone please help me out:

The BC Zirconiade-Turks fight should be a after Zack's last stand, I think by a few days to a week? Then again, if the events are simultaneous, it explains why Tseng, Cissnei, etc cannot save Zack. So there is a really logical explanation for having Zirconiade happen at that same time.

That said, none of Remake mentions Zirconiade or those Turks, putting that in the ending would only really be logical if Zirconiade is going to factor into the Jenova Wars in some way. We have no evidence of this yet and it's likely a separate event.

That said, if BC ever got their own Remake, or perhaps as part of Ever Crisis, it makes some sense for the X-Zone thing that Zirconiade generates (where the final fight actually is) to be a part of and/or within the Singularity. It makes the most sense for these three events to happen simultaneous in different timelines (BC final fight, CC last stand, Remake ending). The whispers are dying in all the timelines it seems. That's certainly what the ending is saying to me.

Quick note, the BC timeline and such just doesn't matter to the Remake story. However, the particle effect/light dust fall happens in BC too, right? So the confusion stands.

Re: Zirconiade destroys Sector 6 -
Zirconiade doesn't destroy Sector 6 and the fight is in a distorted x-zone-y fight, so it shouldn't effect Sector 6 at all. Though, if IRCC, the path into the X-Zone is at the same midgar-edge/unfinished Highway that Cloud and co fights Motorball in OG and enters the Singularity in Remake. It's the highway to... well, hell?

I'm not sure where the Sector 6 stuff came from. In my dives into BC materials, I don't think I've found it.

All this comes down to: Remake is needlessly complicated if Zirconiade is included. We have no evidence to draw that conclusion. The Whispers are connected to the fabric of reality that makes up the Singularity. When the Arbiter of Fate and such is finished, the singularity blows up, and that seems to be the Whispers too. The dust that falls reminds me of Pyreflies, and in another game, that's what we'd call it.