The one Cloud really wanted to meet was...

[Max Payne]

Well it glows white but I think you can still tell it's green.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I know, I know. But it doesn't change the fact that the line is more notorious for Aerith and Cloud. I think both events had equal significance on Cloud's character but one pertained more to the female character. The line means more to Aerith because it was her last wish and that makes it more memorable.

It means more To Aerith.
That's your problem. Cloud is not Aerith.

Aw come on, can you blame people for assuming the materia could be the white materia?

Yes. Just as I can blame them for assuming Tidus's crystal was any particular sphere, or that Onion's or Cecil's crystal are any particular crystal, or that's Squall's is ANYTHING, period.

I dunno, in the original Dissidia, it makes more sense for it all to have been about Aerith and not Tifa seeing as how at that point, neither was in the game.

Neither is in the game so favor one over the other?
Does not follow. Neither is in the game and the reference is ambiguous. Why assume it means one or the other? Why assume it means one of the two in the first place.
In the original Dissidia there's a stronger case to be made that it references Zack, all things considered.

I know there was the reference to the star line but, I just didn't see Tifa in the original Dissidia at all. Whatsoever. The flower thing,

Which is Firion's thing. Firion is the Flower. Internal significance well established.

the materia,

The featureless, generic, gigantic materia.

the meeting line just screamed Aerith to me and it probably would have stayed that way if it weren't for Duodecim.

In which case you admit your original inferences were off the mark. What's so hard about this?

 

[Marle]

On the subject, I always thought it was funny that it's called the white materia when it's green

IKR?

The black materia was black but the white materia was...green. :T

WoL, I think anyone who argues that it's not Aerith in FF7 is a moron or hasn't played the game. xD

But in Dissidia and Duodecim, things get a little more complicated.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Probably to differeniate it from the green materia in the game though I hardly see how that helps. Or to make contrast to the black materia.

 

[Dashell]

Or to make contrast to the black materia.

This is what I always thought honestly

 

[Ryushikaze]

The Black Materia's not always Black.

And it's the White Materia because it casts the ultimate White Magic.

Likewise the Black Materia. They're counter intuitively named for their magic, not their appearance.

 

[looneymoon]

Hey this is srs bsns here dude... I made compassion pictures once

But I lost them

i'm sorry

 

[Max Payne]

Well the name is definitely meant to contrast the black materia. It's just funny imo.

 

[Dashell]

i'm sorry

Note to self: Double check posts when using FireFox spell checker

 

[Marle]

Ryu, I'm not gonna argue with you. This is getting stupid. Especially since I don't even disagree entirely with what you're saying. I just don't see the issue with the fact that others saw that symbolism there. Everything I'm saying is opinion and I'm not saying it's official or canon so picking apart what I said isn't proving anything.

I don't get why shit is being nit picked.

 

[Dashell]

Well Ryu always debates facts and not opinions I guess.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Was offensive and defensive magic ever defined as black and white though?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ryu, I'm not gonna argue with you. This is getting stupid. Especially since I don't even disagree entirely with what you're saying. I just don't see the issue with the fact that others saw that symbolism there. Everything I'm saying is opinion and I'm not saying it's official or canon so picking apart what I said isn't proving anything.

I don't get why shit is being nit picked.

Because people are saying that the symbolism they SAW was the symbolism that IS and they have nothing but their own inference to support it. You'll note I keep referring to it as an ambiguous reference. That means I agree it can be multiple things. I disagree with saying it DOES mean any of them, at least in the context of just Dissidia.

Well Ryu always debates facts and not opinions I guess.

In this case, it's claims of facts hidden among opinions, and that cheeses me right the fuck off.

Was offensive and defensive magic ever defined as black and white though?

FF1- 5 say hi.

 

[Marle]

Here's the funny thing; you're debating with me about it. When I agree it makes more sense to be Tifa. And I never said it IS the white materia. I said you can't blame people for inferring that. And everything I said was very obviously an opinion and not word of God so explain to me again why I was getting chewed out?

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I should have clarified in FF7 though I thought that obvious anyways. I have played enough FFs to know it is stated in some of them.

 

[Dashell]

I don't think he was chewing you out so much, but more those who say for sure it's the White Materia (and they do exist)

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Here's the funny thing; you're debating with me about it. When I agree it makes more sense to be Tifa. And I never said it IS the white materia. I said you can't blame people for inferring that. And everything I said was very obviously an opinion and not word of God so explain to me again why I was getting chewed out?

This is the Internet. People get excited about such things. I dunno why but they do.

 

[Arianna]

Here's a wild idea: It was another poor translation; something along the lines of, "this guy are sick."

 

[Dashell]

But... it... wasn't...

 

[Ryushikaze]

Here's the funny thing; you're debating with me about it.

You're the one responding to me about this. That's the reason why I'm debating with you. You're engaging in a debate. And I LOVE those.

When I agree it makes more sense to be Tifa.

I know. I have no beef with you on that front.

And I never said it IS the white materia.

I know. But people- some people in this thread unless they've changed their stance- do.

I said you can't blame people for inferring that.

And I disagree with you. I can blame them for that because they take their inference too far. They take it being 'It could be' to 'It is' with nary a shred of proof.

And everything I said was very obviously an opinion and not word of God so explain to me again why I was getting chewed out?

I'm not trying to chew you out. I'm being more than a bit sarcastic in some of my replies, I'll cop to that, but the venom isn't directed at you.

I don't think he was chewing you out so much, but more those who say for sure it's the White Materia (and they do exist)

That, and it seems my case is being misunderstood, since I'm also not saying it definitely is not (granted, I still think it's unlikely, for reasons that are unrelated to the LTD, if you will believe that), rather, I'm saying we don't actually have ANY evidence to say what it specifically is or isn't beyond 'a crystal that resembles Materia' and we should make as few assumptions as we can when analyzing the text. Deal with known values as much as possible before dealing with ambiguous elements. Allow the known to unveil the unknown.

And admit when our inferences pro tem are wrong.
Then again, I know folks who've been proven wrong for ten years who won't admit that, so, yeah.

 

[looneymoon]

we all know what it really means when you say you want to meet someone

Spoiler: answer behind the cut

 

[Ryushikaze]

we all know what it really means when you say you want to meet someone

Spoiler: answer behind the cut

So... Mukki then.

[/thread]

 

[Marle]

But neither Zee, Vriska, Serah or Rishi or anyone else who said they voted Aerith said they believed that so I really don't know who you're talking about. Unless they aren't on this forum? Or haven't replied to this thread?

Zee and Rishi were just saying that the line sounds like it related to Aerith and I think they have a point. Until we take Duodecim into account. Then there's mixed feelings. But I can't speak for them. That would be my opinion.

I don't agree or disagree with the white materia thing. I could care less, actually. I just can see where some people are coming from if they just assumed it was, especially if they're invested in the pairing. I do that stuff, too. They might be right, they might be wrong but who am I to tell them not to believe it?

Even if it is Aerith's materia, it doesn't mean OMG ROMANCE. It's just paying homage to her character and to the FF7 world. So really, idgaf.

 

[Dashell]

Even if it is Aerith's materia, it doesn't mean OMG ROMANCE.

I don't think anyone is saying this anyway. I know Zee believes it to be the white materia as a way to represent the world and she believes it's shown in the FFVII Logo.

Tim's point is that we can't just say it's her materia with no evidence whatsoever, and people (not necessarily here though) have done that... dunno if they did in this topic or not, but people have said it before.

 

[Ryushikaze]

But neither Zee, Vriska, Serah or Rishi or anyone else who said they voted Aerith said they believed that so I really don't know who you're talking about. Unless they aren't on this forum? Or haven't replied to this thread?

They are on this forum, they have not repeated their assertion in this thread, hence why I do not know if they have changed positions or not.

Zee and Rishi were just saying that the line sounds like it related to Aerith and I think they have a point. Until we take Duodecim into account. Then there's mixed feelings. But I can't speak for them. That would be my opinion.

My point is that you cannot say 'for certain' based just on Dissidia, which they seem to be doing. One can say it's possible, one can say it possibly refers to someone else. We do not have the evidence to say it refers to anyone for certain. With 012, that changes.

I don't agree or disagree with the white materia thing. I could care less, actually. I just can see where some people are coming from if they just assumed it was, especially if they're invested in the pairing. I do that stuff, too. They might be right, they might be wrong but who am I to tell them not to believe it?

A rational reductionalist skeptic who believes in the logical principle of parsimony. They assert it without evidence, it is dismissed without evidence.

Even if it is Aerith's materia, it doesn't mean OMG ROMANCE. It's just paying homage to her character and to the FF7 world. So really, idgaf.

Again, I agree. But again, I don't think it's the White Materia. I'm just not saying it absolutely isn't. I'm saying it, like the other crystals from worlds that have more than one (or less, in Squall's case) what it is is UNKNOWN, and there is insufficient evidence to arrive at the conclusion that it is.

The rational reductionalist in me is what leads to the 'most likely isn't' for nearly all the crystals, for the record. I will remain consistent on that front for all but WoL, for whom we have at least something of an indication of what his crystal might be if the PS1 FMVs are 'canon'