The Winner of Our Discontent — 2016 U.S. Election Results Discussion

[Cat Rage Room]

Impressive counter argument. Really that must have taken you ages to come up with that childish snappish retort.

Actually I'm "in charge" of a family, with a bisexual, Mexican wife who is now at risk for greater discrimination (even if being married to me she might not show the bisexual side of herself). I have a daughter who may choose to be a full blown lesbian when she grows up and god bless her. Or maybe she views herself more as a he. Thanks to the damage this government can now do to her, that future along with the future of millions of others is now compromised and this is why people of all walks of life are, rightfully, angry.

So if you want to snipe and be a contrarian go right ahead. I'll start planning for the worst while hoping for the best.

And I share your concerns.

But the reason why I said that is because the sentiment of "punish all white people" is ridiculous and untenable.

Unless I read your statement wrong, and you meant "we're all punished", then yeah, I apologize.

Still, the sentiment of "Blame White People" is untenable, and will lead to Trump and People Like Trump being elected over and over again for decades. It's not going to work.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Unless I read your statement wrong, and you meant "we're all punished", then yeah, I apologize.
.

Well you did, you should and I stand by my assertion which may have been ninja'd that before you spout idiotic ad hominem attacks you should maybe ask for clarification.

I thought the context was pretty clear that "all are punished" a reference to Romeo & Juliet, meant literally that. All are punished. And particularly the ones that I was referring to are those who are going to be hurt the most by Trump's asinine policies.

Edit: As a side note - I AM a white, straight male. If I was calling for the decimation of the entire people wouldn't suicide have to be my first stop?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well you did, you should and I stand by my assertion which may have been ninja'd that before you spout idiotic ad hominem attacks you should maybe ask for clarification.

Yeah, maybe.

I thought the context was pretty clear that "all are punished" a reference to Romeo & Juliet, meant literally that. All are punished.

I've never read Romeo and Juliet, man.

 

[Jason Tandro]

I thought the context was pretty clear that "all are punished" a reference to Romeo & Juliet, meant literally that. All are punished.

I've never read Romeo and Juliet, man.

You're missing nothing, it's grossly over-rated. When I want Shakespeare, I'll take Macbeth any day. But I also grew up in the 90s in a house with a teenage sister so of course I saw the Leonardo DiCaprio version... ugh.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Seriously though, I do apologize for being a dick. I'm just sick of shit, man.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Seriously though, I do apologize for being a dick. I'm just sick of shit, man.

It's cool, bro.

Everybody is sick of shit, it's a hard thing we have to live with. If this election brought out the worst in humanity I can only imagine what the result is going to do to us as a people.

I also want to clarify I'm not saying lashing out is productive, only that I completely understand why so many people are.

 

[Random Nobody]

Still, the sentiment of "Blame White People" is untenable, and will lead to Trump and People Like Trump being elected over and over again for decades. It's not going to work.

The thing is that white people need to talk to other white people to sort the mess. This is the type of coalition work that should have been done donkey years ago, but at least when the first seeds of the Tea Party movement began to sprout. "Blaming white people" isn't what got Trump in the Oval Office (and lbr, where does this happen but online), but you can bet passivity did. Not only the unwillingness to challenge the far right and decades of coded language, but the institutionalisation of racism and her uglier brother, neoliberalism. You can shout down Republicans and their overt antics and all, but it means nothing if the Democrats (who are in a way, more sinister) and their fauxgressive policies continue uninterrogated. I would give an arm for half the white people out there breaking shit right now to sit down for a bit and do some one-on-one relational work with each other for even just an hour.

I mean, if you not throwing hands with Grandpappy Joe every time he says some nonsense over string bean casserole dinner then..............wyd.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Vis a Vis the request for sources:

Here's Trump's 100 Day Plan

With a caveat mentioned that the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has said that some things aren't going to be considered, at least, "a pressing concern."

I call your attention to:

FIRST, cancel every unconstitutional executive action, memorandum and order issued by President Obama

Secondly, and admittedly this is an older source but vis a vis my comments regarding Mike Pence:

Trump Will Roll Back Obama's LGBT Rights

And yes it is PinkNews, so biased but I am still inclined to trust them on this matter.

 

[Dashell]

This country is mostly white people... couldn't ANYTHING be blamed on white people?

Gay marriage being legal is white people's fault too, right? Why do we blame whites when something goes wrong but don't compliment them when they do the right thing?


and Jason, that news IS scary, I guess I'll wait to hear it from Trump himself, he spoke about protecting LGBTQ people, and I hope that wasn't a lie

 

[Jason Tandro]

Gay marriage being legal is white people's fault too, right? Why do we blame whites when something goes wrong but don't compliment them when they do the right thing?

Why don't we compliment anybody when anybody does something right? I'll admit we as a people have a tendency to skew negative, especially in the age of the internet. That said, as you pointed out, white people are the majority and hold the majority of power and... yeah pretty much everything is our fault. If decency were viewed as a duty instead of a perk there would be less problems.

and Jason, that news IS scary, I guess I'll wait to hear it from Trump himself, he spoke about protecting LGBTQ people, and I hope that wasn't a lie

It's entirely possible he could surprise us all and be a good leader, but based on his actions and his 100 day plan, I doubt it.

 

[Random Nobody]

This country is mostly white people... couldn't ANYTHING be blamed on white people?

Gay marriage being legal is white people's fault too, right? Why do we blame whites when something goes wrong but don't compliment them when they do the right thing?

Accountability comes with having a numerical supermajority and centuries (to present) of institutionalised supremacy lol.

Things aren't going wrong so much as they've always been wrong, so to paraphrase Ms Malcolm, even pulling out the knife all the way wouldn't be progress.

ETA: Mike Pence is the devil oh my god, how did this gallery of Halloween masks just take the helm of the guvmint.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

That said, as you pointed out, white people are the majority and hold the majority of power and... yeah pretty much everything is our fault.

I just don't agree with that, man.

 

[Jason Tandro]

That said, as you pointed out, white people are the majority and hold the majority of power and... yeah pretty much everything is our fault.

I just don't agree with that, man.

Could have used a

That was semi-tongue-in-cheek.

 

[Kai Schulen]

The thing is, is that I feel that blaming white people for everything that went wrong with this election is the reason why this election was the stuff of nightmares.

I mean, if you constantly tell a cishet white male from the rust belt that he's a shitlord and needs to die just because of his skin color and sexuality, and that their issues don't matter, they're gonna get tired of being demonized and belittled like that all the time. Let me be evil and all that.

....I'm going somewhere with this post, but to be honest, talking politics gives me a headache and I'd rather draw stuff than do politics.

 

[Jason Tandro]

The thing is, is that I feel that blaming white people for everything that went wrong with this election is the reason why this election was the stuff of nightmares.

I mean, if you constantly tell a cishet white male from the rust belt that he's a shitlord and needs to die just because of his skin color and sexuality, and that their issues don't matter, they're gonna get tired of being demonized and belittled like that all the time. Let me be evil and all that.

....I'm going somewhere with this post, but to be honest, talking politics gives me a headache and I'd rather draw stuff than do politics.

That's also a good point and there was an article that my brother shared that basically said "the extreme PC left overreacting to every minor indiscretion fostered this feeling of being attacked which allowed Trump to win." It's an interesting thought.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Still, the sentiment of "Blame White People" is untenable, and will lead to Trump and People Like Trump being elected over and over again for decades. It's not going to work.

The thing is that white people need to talk to other white people to sort the mess. This is the type of coalition work that should have been done donkey years ago, but at least when the first seeds of the Tea Party movement began to sprout. "Blaming white people" isn't what got Trump in the Oval Office (and lbr, where does this happen but online), but you can bet passivity did. Not only the unwillingness to challenge the far right and decades of coded language, but the institutionalisation of racism and her uglier brother, neoliberalism. You can shout down Republicans and their overt antics and all, but it means nothing if the Democrats (who are in a way, more sinister) and their fauxgressive policies continue uninterrogated. I would give an arm for half the white people out there breaking shit right now to sit down for a bit and do some one-on-one relational work with each other for even just an hour.

I mean, if you not throwing hands with Grandpappy Joe every time he says some nonsense over string bean casserole dinner then..............wyd.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Obviously change will come about partly through natural attrition, as the older and more reactionary generations die off. But in a democracy, people vote for whatever they believe will protect their interests. That is their right. If "you" (any given individual) are voting for the candidate you believe will benefit you most, you can't really turn around and demand that other people NOT vote for the candidate they believe benefits them. That's just never going to work as a means of changing hearts and minds. Neither will haranguing and vitriol, or, worse still, violence.

This is a good time to recall Martin Luther King's words: only love can drive out hatred. Americans, you need to love each now more than ever. You especially need to love the Trump voters. Don't deepen the existing divide. Love them and be kind to them, and show them, with patience and gentleness, why it's in their interests to change.

(But anyway you don't have to listen to me, I'm not even American.)

 

[Random Nobody]

I mean, if you constantly tell a cishet white male from the rust belt that he's a shitlord and needs to die just because of his skin color and sexuality

....But again, in what world does this happen.

In any case, the majority of the white electorate in general voted for Trump, so it isn't a white male phenomenon. And working class whites were the only demographic within the white population where Clinton pulled ahead, so it's not been characterised correctly as blue collar backlash, either.

The fruits of this election definitely have their roots in something reactionary, but it's not a reaction to what's been described. Even if it were, implicitly justifying this white spite as described and thereby assigning blame to people who face tangible discrimimation is not sensical to me.

Like, I just don't see it for some frog meme 4chan dork mad because he got mocked by Internet negroes.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

....But again, in what world does this happen.

I've seen it here.

 

[Kai Schulen]

I mean, if you constantly tell a cishet white male from the rust belt that he's a shitlord and needs to die just because of his skin color and sexuality

....But again, in what world does this happen.

Well, it happens a lot in the social justice scene on tumblr, even when I mostly ignore social justice on tumblr and stay out of that crazy shit. But I mostly said this in response to Dashell's comment that people on her FB feed were blaming straight white boys, and to some of Jason's other posts.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Trump really reached out to those people, while Hillary did not, and that's part of why she failed? Aside from the whole DNC fucking themselves over bit. I dunno. My face hurts cause of the weather and because of all of this election stuff. This is why you guys never see me in the debate/politics forums.

 

[Random Nobody]

Obviously change will come about partly through natural attrition, as the older and more reactionary generations die off.

No, it won't. If that were the case, then -isms would be dead already. Racism in particular is an invention that was very intentionally created and maintained over centuries, thus it needs an intentional remedy. It changes forms and becomes cyclic, but it won't just disappear on its own. Especially not during observable fascist upticks in the face of capitalism's disasters. We've seen this historically. Which would be why most college-educated white millenials voted Trump.

But in a democracy, people vote for whatever they believe will protect their interests. That is their right. If "you" (any given individual) are voting for the candidate you believe will benefit you most, you can't really turn around and demand that other people NOT vote for the candidate they believe benefits them.

But nobody said that tho. The takeaway here is the need to interrogate what Trump's constituents believe is in their "best interest" and why.

This is a good time to recall Martin Luther King's words: only love can drive out hatred.

He also got killed dead for that, so I mean.....

I know that MLK's legacy has been highly sanitised and all now, but the reason he was so influential is because the American government considered him a threat.

...And I don't think people are all that familiar with his writing, because he also lambasted white moderates who called for "understanding" and gradual "progress," supported reparations, began to oppose imperialism and the burgeoning military-industrial complex in his later years, etc etc. His call for nonviolence wasn't ideological kumbayah, it was a concrete strategy intended to discredit and disgrace the US government before its allies (who were very relatively more tolerant) and invite international pressure.

You especially need to love the Trump voters.

Iono about alldet.

Love them and be kind to them, and show them, with patience and gentleness, why it's in their interests to change.

And who gon help us out in the meantime?? Who gonna save........me???

I'm being mostly tongue-in-cheek here, but telling people they need to kiss and kowtow while they suffer lest they hurt their abusers' feelings.....itsnotrealistic.gif.

(But anyway you don't have to listen to me, I'm not even American.)

The gag is that I'm technically not, either.

ETA:

Well, it happens a lot in the social justice scene on tumblr

That's exactly what I'm talking about. A very small segment of marginalised peoples venting on the Internet (the only place you really can) is not the culprit of systemic trends. Especially when most of the population is not even exposed to it. How is that at all comparable to offline racial/gendered/whatever aggression that the other side experiences every day (for the last several hunnit years)? To the tune where a mainstream (child rapist) presidential candidate can call Mexicans rapists, say he wants to reinstall internment camps, talk about how good it was back in the day when you could string up black people whenever (not that this has changed much), is comically misogynistic, etcetera.

I mean again....it's just notrealistic.gif.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Mog: Earlier you and I had a scuffle about the relative importance of local government. I think you could say your point has been vindicated considering how while I and many others were so focused on the presidency control of the Senate slipped away. You better believe I am paying attention now.

 

[Dashell]

....But again, in what world does this happen.

I've seen it here.

I wasn't going to go there, I was going to say "tumblr" but THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

[Random Nobody]

Local government is definitely > than federal elections lol. Because if you (in general) are trying to organise around presidential candidacy, it's already too late.

 

[Random Nobody]

....But again, in what world does this happen.

I've seen it here.

Again...offline, in the real world. To tangible effect.

Especially since any critique of institutions is often already perceived as an attack.

 

[Dashell]

....But again, in what world does this happen.

I've seen it here.

Again...offline, in the real world. To tangible effect.

Especially since any critique of institutions is often already perceived as an attack.

It happens a lot in MSN. Maybe they don't actually tell men they need to die, but they perpetuate the wage gap myth or the 1 in 4 myth and... so on and so forth. They've basically planted their feet in the sand with the SJWs and people are sick of it.