Random Nobody
local roach
I guess I should have specified. To tangible effect [on these men's lives and livelihoods].
Also, wage gap myth? And one in four what?
I'm not hip to American slang, smh.
The Winner of Our Discontent — 2016 U.S. Election Results Discussion
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
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Also, wage gap myth? And one in four what?
I'm not hip to American slang, smh.
jacoobmiller
Pro Adventurer
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- Jmills or Jacoob
We do have the power to impeach a member of our government, whether it be a state governer or a President. I think the ones who are worried of being under attack are just fine; this is why we have constitutional rights, granted that you are in fact a U.S. citizen, for protection. Not only does one have their rights, but the established, growing LBGTQ community will always fight for your equality even if a bigoted President was elected. If Trump were to commit any act of treason versus our nation, either he would have to change his views, or be indicted for going against our Civil and political rights.
Kai Schulen
... ... ...▼
- AKA
- Trainer Red
I think the problem with impeaching Trump means that we'd get Pence as President. And no one wants Pence for President.
....Unless we can impeach him like 2 seconds after Trump. I don't think that has ever happened before.
....Unless we can impeach him like 2 seconds after Trump. I don't think that has ever happened before.
Random Nobody
local roach
Pence is worse than Trump. And even if Trump did something so inescapably abominable (don't know what that could be if not child rape) to the tune of impeachment, it's not gonna happen with a Republican Congress lol.
Plus I don't think anyone is actually afraid of the campaign bluster or Trump himself. He's a fool. The danger is the judiciary and legislative power, and morever, emboldened nationalists, normalisation of nationalist fervor, and what that means going forward.
Also, if you not a citizen. Well.
Hasn't really meant much in the case of poverty, mass incarceration, extrajudicial killings, etc etc.
Plus I don't think anyone is actually afraid of the campaign bluster or Trump himself. He's a fool. The danger is the judiciary and legislative power, and morever, emboldened nationalists, normalisation of nationalist fervor, and what that means going forward.
Also, if you not a citizen. Well.
jacoobmiller
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Jmills or Jacoob
I haven't really analyzed Pence yet. I mean, his views will obviously be similar to Trump's, but I don't know who he truly is.
Random Nobody
local roach
Well, their executive characters are in question (SINCE THEY NEVER ACTUALLY OFFERED ANY POLICY OH MY GOD I still can't get over it), but unlike Trump who, again, is a fool and stunt queen who stumbled into office by accident, Pence has had a long and grimy political career. His policies have and always represented the worst of the reactionary early 2000s right-wing platform. Down to conversion therapy, even.
ETA: I'm upset that Trump supposedly has all that money and still has that terrible weave.
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Random Nobody
local roach
Myron Ebell.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
Not everyone who voted for brexit trump did so because they are seething bigots dreaming of hitler 2.0 but the problem is that this was the preferred option of bigots and getting the result they wanted emboldens them (like the uptick in racially motivated hate crimes post-brexit). Because if you just look at the numbers, half the population seems to agree with you. And you heard a lot with stuff like this, praise for people who are finally 'saying what people are thinking'. Which is never used for people saying nice things, it's always some horrible shit. That lets the racists and bigots believe that half the population secretly agrees with them but are too scared to say in words (but could in the privacy of the voting booth).
Maybe they do, you can't really tell.
But you can bet white nationalists are out there today thinking that some 50 million people want to 'take their country back'.
I mean, I guess you could blame some of that on a tumblr blog offending some white guy's feelings once. (If that were even a real blog because it's not like people writing outrageous stuff online just to troll people or make some group they don't like look bad isn't a thing that hasn't happened before.) But man, if seeing something online by a stranger you will never meet and is unlikely to have a real world impact on your life is enough to push you over the edge. I don't know what to say. Some angry person on Twitter saying that white guys suck isn't going to you not being able to peacefully take a piss in public or have people suggest you be rounded up and deported. That kind of rhetoric isn't likely to lead to your rights being threatened any time soon. Unlike comments about how lgbtq people are unnatural or mentally ill or a threat to children, which reach beyond the internet to become the law of the land. You didn't wake up the next morning after reading that tumblrrando225 doesn't trust straight white people to find that under your next president your marriage could be at risk or that you could lose your job because of someone's totes sincere religious beliefs. Talking about how black people are the cause of their own problems (they're lazy! they expect handouts and obamaphones! they don't respect education and glamourise crime in their rap music! they don't raise their kids right! they just need to work harder!) is an attitude that can affect government policy because it's more widely shared by people with political or media power than someone online mocking white girls for their love of uggs and pumpkin spice lattes.
Not all these words are enlightened and helpful (I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to defend stuff like #killallwhitemen). But not all of those words feed into things that have a material impact on the everyday lives of people. And it probably isn't the guy going "honkys amiright??" on the Twitter.
There are real problems, but the cause isn't really immigrants taking low paid work in probably exploitative conditions. They aren't the ones who moved jobs overseas. And those jobs weren't moved because these businesses care about the people in these other countries. It's because those people can be exploited for a lower cost so they can keep more money for themselves. Many of those jobs that were in the manufacturing sector are probably replaced by automation now, which instead of leading to a world where people have to work less it has lead to the opposite. The people at the top (the ones with actual power) get to keep more money and the workers get to work more hours or another job because they don't get paid enough to live. Because if you ask for a wage you can actually live on you get threatened with replacement by automation. And the business owners will shrug their shoulders and say they can't help it, they have to make profit. And the tax breaks and tax dodges just won't cut it. You can't expect them to share that wealth with the people who actually do all the work!
But no, it's probably the mexicans' fault. I heard they were sending rapists and criminals anyway.
Maybe they do, you can't really tell.
But you can bet white nationalists are out there today thinking that some 50 million people want to 'take their country back'.
I mean, I guess you could blame some of that on a tumblr blog offending some white guy's feelings once. (If that were even a real blog because it's not like people writing outrageous stuff online just to troll people or make some group they don't like look bad isn't a thing that hasn't happened before.) But man, if seeing something online by a stranger you will never meet and is unlikely to have a real world impact on your life is enough to push you over the edge. I don't know what to say. Some angry person on Twitter saying that white guys suck isn't going to you not being able to peacefully take a piss in public or have people suggest you be rounded up and deported. That kind of rhetoric isn't likely to lead to your rights being threatened any time soon. Unlike comments about how lgbtq people are unnatural or mentally ill or a threat to children, which reach beyond the internet to become the law of the land. You didn't wake up the next morning after reading that tumblrrando225 doesn't trust straight white people to find that under your next president your marriage could be at risk or that you could lose your job because of someone's totes sincere religious beliefs. Talking about how black people are the cause of their own problems (they're lazy! they expect handouts and obamaphones! they don't respect education and glamourise crime in their rap music! they don't raise their kids right! they just need to work harder!) is an attitude that can affect government policy because it's more widely shared by people with political or media power than someone online mocking white girls for their love of uggs and pumpkin spice lattes.
Not all these words are enlightened and helpful (I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to defend stuff like #killallwhitemen). But not all of those words feed into things that have a material impact on the everyday lives of people. And it probably isn't the guy going "honkys amiright??" on the Twitter.
There are real problems, but the cause isn't really immigrants taking low paid work in probably exploitative conditions. They aren't the ones who moved jobs overseas. And those jobs weren't moved because these businesses care about the people in these other countries. It's because those people can be exploited for a lower cost so they can keep more money for themselves. Many of those jobs that were in the manufacturing sector are probably replaced by automation now, which instead of leading to a world where people have to work less it has lead to the opposite. The people at the top (the ones with actual power) get to keep more money and the workers get to work more hours or another job because they don't get paid enough to live. Because if you ask for a wage you can actually live on you get threatened with replacement by automation. And the business owners will shrug their shoulders and say they can't help it, they have to make profit. And the tax breaks and tax dodges just won't cut it. You can't expect them to share that wealth with the people who actually do all the work!
But no, it's probably the mexicans' fault. I heard they were sending rapists and criminals anyway.
Random Nobody
local roach
Catch the mf tea on det but also in unrelated news, why are people still pushing the narrative of the disgruntled white blue collar worker so hard when the demography has been released lol. I'm listening to NPR and there's some nerd on here talking about how poor working whites "delivered" the election to Trump and I'm sitting here like LIE AGAIN, sis.
Random Nobody
local roach
Clinton carried the white working class electorate at 53%, and while that's ten percent down from Obama's sweep amongst blue collar whites in 2012, it's still a much different picture from this super idiotic characterisation of pro-Trump momentum being spearheaded by some white proletariat groundswell.
Seriously speaking, half of Hillary's and the Democratic Party's and, really, the American "left's" (such as it is, anyway) problem in general is the complete refusal to incorporate class analysis and address the needs of the poor such that there is a viable alternative to reactionary nationalism. I mean, you wanna talk about gendered wage loss or whatever, but that is no answer for women in poverty, nor is it acknowledge the difficulty of securing employment in the first place.
I also find it interesting that there's a tendency, across borders, even, to try to pin the rise of fascist sentiment to just differences in class and education as if the working class is entirely just white (which is especially untrue in the States). But I guess [Mariame Kaba voice] that's normal.
Seriously speaking, half of Hillary's and the Democratic Party's and, really, the American "left's" (such as it is, anyway) problem in general is the complete refusal to incorporate class analysis and address the needs of the poor such that there is a viable alternative to reactionary nationalism. I mean, you wanna talk about gendered wage loss or whatever, but that is no answer for women in poverty, nor is it acknowledge the difficulty of securing employment in the first place.
I also find it interesting that there's a tendency, across borders, even, to try to pin the rise of fascist sentiment to just differences in class and education as if the working class is entirely just white (which is especially untrue in the States). But I guess [Mariame Kaba voice] that's normal.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
Actually going back to Jason's 'act of war against anyone who isn't straight and white' thing
People who voted trump might not have done so for anti-lgbtq or racist reason specifically, but it kind of sends the message to those people that what we'll call here Straight White Christian America is willing to throw you under the bus in order to get what they want. Mike pemce's record or the general republican disdain for those groups or the upswell of white nationalism be damned, because trump said he'd get the jobs back and when has someone running for president ever failed to deliver on a promise? So what if those groups feel unsafe now? At least SWCA can feel safe again
People who voted trump might not have done so for anti-lgbtq or racist reason specifically, but it kind of sends the message to those people that what we'll call here Straight White Christian America is willing to throw you under the bus in order to get what they want. Mike pemce's record or the general republican disdain for those groups or the upswell of white nationalism be damned, because trump said he'd get the jobs back and when has someone running for president ever failed to deliver on a promise? So what if those groups feel unsafe now? At least SWCA can feel safe again
Carlie
CltrAltDelicious
- AKA
- Chloe Frazer
Random Nobody
local roach
American states talk about secession every time there's an election lol.
Intentions and sentiments don't really matter, only material effects.
In any case, Trump is not going to bring back jobs, coal, or a reasonable tax code, but the people who voted for him will love him anyway. Not like that's solely a right-wing trait tho.
This is essentially one of the arguments James Baldwin made, which is very much #schmood right now.
Intentions and sentiments don't really matter, only material effects.
In any case, Trump is not going to bring back jobs, coal, or a reasonable tax code, but the people who voted for him will love him anyway. Not like that's solely a right-wing trait tho.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
The best possible message you can interpret from this is "we don't hate but we don't really care enough about you to make sure your rights and freedoms are secure"
It's great that you're not "throwing gays off of buildings like the Muslims" but if saying that at least you don't routinely kill people (publicly anyway) is the best you can offer then sorry if I find that lacking. Not being killed shouldn't be treated like something you have to give a pat on the back to you for
You can't even say that for black Americans since you keep killing them
It's great that you're not "throwing gays off of buildings like the Muslims" but if saying that at least you don't routinely kill people (publicly anyway) is the best you can offer then sorry if I find that lacking. Not being killed shouldn't be treated like something you have to give a pat on the back to you for
You can't even say that for black Americans since you keep killing them
Dashell
SMILE!
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- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I'm going to say something that's going to piss a lot of people off but
I was looking at Trump's website and his plans for more schools and his health care reform and... I gotta be honest, most of it isn't that bad. I'd actually consider it to be "good." Some of his other ideas are actually alright too.
So maybe... some people voted based on that. If I just READ his ideas and didn't ever hear a line from a single speech he said, I wouldn't have considered him nearly as bad. And don't get me wrong, everything looks great on paper but I actually prefer what he has for health care vs what we have now. I never liked that it was mandatory for people to have. If some super healthy dude doesn't want it and ends up in a car accident, that's HIS fault.
Still not a fan of the wall but what are you going to do. I doubt it's going to happen anyway. And I hope that he leaves LGBTQs and abortion alone, but Pence is more of a worry there.
Not saying it would "make America great again" but if people voted based on things like that, I'd understand.
I was looking at Trump's website and his plans for more schools and his health care reform and... I gotta be honest, most of it isn't that bad. I'd actually consider it to be "good." Some of his other ideas are actually alright too.
So maybe... some people voted based on that. If I just READ his ideas and didn't ever hear a line from a single speech he said, I wouldn't have considered him nearly as bad. And don't get me wrong, everything looks great on paper but I actually prefer what he has for health care vs what we have now. I never liked that it was mandatory for people to have. If some super healthy dude doesn't want it and ends up in a car accident, that's HIS fault.
Still not a fan of the wall but what are you going to do. I doubt it's going to happen anyway. And I hope that he leaves LGBTQs and abortion alone, but Pence is more of a worry there.
Not saying it would "make America great again" but if people voted based on things like that, I'd understand.
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Cthulhu
Administrator
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- Yop
I think the main issue with this - and actually a lot of elections - is that usually it's about emotions and personality, instead of bottom line political statements and plans and shit. Trump's coverage was about grabbing by the pussy, Clinton's about emails.
Now you mention it, I honestly didn't even know what either Trump or Clinton stood for. Trump had something about building a wall. Clinton, er. I haven't a clue.
Now you mention it, I honestly didn't even know what either Trump or Clinton stood for. Trump had something about building a wall. Clinton, er. I haven't a clue.
Dawnbreaker
~The Other Side of Fear~
There is so much wrong with this thread I would not know where to begin.
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
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- Mog
Give it a shot; I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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