Trace of Two Pasts novel discussion

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Holy shit, you're right. The lyrics for "Midgar Blues" really do match what Cloud did... Damn, I wonder if that was intentional...

Nojima left nothing to chance. He probably got the English lyrics and loved them so much he incorporated them into the novel, making them even more canon - since people disputed that we should use the English lyrics which are quite different from the Japanese lyrics. The way it's written, from the two real translations (aka not translation of a summary), show that there is an intense care towards what is written. It really feels different from the On the Way to a Smile novels. For example the way Tifa's feelings about the promise are described are really romantic.

Edit: also I forgot, I don't know if it's been mentioned but apparently Jessie celebrated Tifa's birthday with her, and taught her how to walk on stage :D Take that as you will!
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
^On a similar topic, my head is playing around with so much unwarranted, unwritten fanfiction for Brian and Claudia due to the details from this new novel. Thanks to Licorice I am addicted to the notion of Claudia and Brian having "history" together and my mind is now writing up a tragic romance novel. :lol:
I mean at least that idea fits the narrative better than Cloud and Aerith repopulating the Cetra race lmao
 

minami758

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Miiwoo
-She was walking around the village when the Village Chief Zundar talked to her
He then left, but old villager still wanted to learn Zangan gymnastics. So Tifa trained them instead of her master, asked by village mayor.

So this also confirms that Brian Lockhart is not the village chief/mayor as a lot of people theorized/assumed for years (what was this based on originally? I can't even remember lol).

Their village chief is some dude named Zundar who also asked Tifa to train some other villagers in martial arts when Zangan left. Seems like she was definitely his best pupil then.
 
Maybe Zundar died while Cloud was off in Midgar, and Brian took over.
Here's what he says
"
Tifa's Father
I'm the town's... ...... ......!?
Aren't you Cloud?
Don't you know me?

Cloud
You're Tifa's...

Tifa's Father
Right. I'm Tifa's father.
...I want you to stay away from my daughter.
We don't need the Shinra's help to protect our town! "

If he's not the town's.... Headman, then I wonder what he is? The town's banker? The town's doctor? The town's village idiot? The town's Brian?

(There's no difference in meaning in the Japanese version of the script. Brian doesn't clarify what he is there either).
 

minami758

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Miiwoo
Huh, that might be the case then. I wonder if maybe that’s something that’s changed in the Remake then maybe or if Brian was never going to say “mayor/chief” at all?

I guess it doesn’t matter that much in the long run.
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
Final_Heaven said:
So wait....were the Tifa topless photos by the doctors a real thing?
Perhaps someone can translate this Japanese fan's take here:
https://fusetter.com/tw/Ddqbvzu8

And piecing it together from here: https://twitter.com/MAIScnhyo
Marle met Tifa when Marle needed surgery and the doctors from sector 8 showed her Tifa's chest photo during Tifa's surgery. It made Marle mad and protected her ever since.

From the gist of it, it also seems that:

It seems Marle set her up at 7th Heaven and Tifa moonlighted there, where she meets Barret and Marlene in bad conditions living in the basement of 7th Heaven. She tries to buy 7th Heaven with her own money to share with them cos the bar owner suddenly dies. When she goes to get her savings, she finds out that the money has been taken by the aforementioned doctor's son with a gambling problem. It seems he...confesses to liking her, but she kicks him. <- Totally not sure about this part
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
Finally, Aerith chapter starts!

Interestingly though, that shows that even if she knows about her future death, she knows nothing about it. Somehow that reassures me.
I think it's just casual Aerith talking about future more than anyone else.
But if she wants a kid, idk if it foreshadows her happy ending with Zack since Remake shows him survive.
 
I ran the fan letter through deepl. I broke it into sections; I give a Japanese section followed by its machine translated English counterpart. I tried to standardise the name spellings. There's nothing here we don't know already. It doesn't address the photo question. I'm not convinced it is worth a read.

The only thing that somewhat surprised me is that the author says the townspeople of Nibelheim thought at first that Zangan was a "人買い" which literally means person-seller, and which denshi jisho translates as slave dealer, slave traffic. Which in turn implies that slavery is a thing in their world - and Tifa does spend a period of time being held in what is effectively debt-bondage in Midgar, forced to work in a bun shop and live in a shipping container, aware that if she doesn't take action, she will never earn enough to buy her freedom. Sadly, this is the lived experience of all too many real-life refugees. I love this game best when it does that kind of realism.

Why do the doctors in their world all suck so much?


小説ティファ編の感想…箇条書きです。かなり詳細にネタバレしてるのでご注意ください。まとまりもないです。





ティファ編はティファの幼少期〜アバランチに加入する直前である18歳までの話です。ミッドガルに来てからの話だけになると思ってたので正直驚き。

ニブルの魔晄炉って休止状態だったんだ。知らなかった。神羅台頭前はあの辺はジュノン共和国だったみたい。共和国!なんか新鮮。

ティファのママの名前はテア。ティファに音が近い!ブライアンがベタ惚れだったみたい。

ママが亡くなった後は、村の女性たちに家事などを教わっていたらしい。

幼なじみ三人組は、エミリオ、レスター、タイラー。万屋の息子がエミリオ。

成長するにしたがってみんなティファを女の子として好きになるけど、ティファは誰ともそう言う気にならなかった。断って傷つけて離れてくのが怖かったからかな。これは母を早くに失ったことや必要以上に人の目を気にする性分は閉鎖的な村で生まれ育った影響もあるのかなと思いました。

とても前時代的な女性の幸せ像に囚われている村の雰囲気がありました。それに内心抗いたい女性たちの心も。

この後にも随所にあるのですが、ティファの、特に男性の目を惹く容姿に対しての扱いに憤りを感じました。ティファを手に入れることが成功の証、優勝トロフィー。ティファ自身もそれに嫌悪感があって、でも強く正しくあろうとする姿勢がもう……。


My thoughts on the Tifa chapter of the novel... bullet points. Please note that this is a very detailed spoiler. It's not a coherent story either.

The story of Tifa is from her childhood to the age of 18, just before she joined Avalanche. To be honest, I was surprised because I thought it would only be the story of her arrival in Midgar.

I didn't know that the Nibble reactor was inactive. I didn't know that. It seems that before the rise of Shinra, that area was the Republic of Junon. Republic! How refreshing.

Tifa's mum's name is Thea. She sounds like Tifa! Brian was very much in love with her.

After her mum died, the women of the village taught her how to do the housework.

The three childhood friends are Emilio, Lester and Tyler. Emilio is the son of a shopkeeper.

As they grew up, they all liked Tifa as a girl, but Tifa didn't feel like saying so with anyone. I think it was because she was afraid of hurting them by saying no and leaving them. I thought this was partly because she lost her mother early and partly because her tendency to worry about people's eyes more than necessary was an effect of being born and raised in a closed village.

There was an atmosphere in the village where women were trapped in a very prehistoric image of happiness. And the women who want to fight against it.

I was also angry at the way Tifa was treated, especially because she was so attractive to men. Getting Tifa is a sign of success, a winner's trophy. Tifa herself is disgusted by it, but she's already ...... trying to be strong and right.


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


ティファは12歳の誕生日にマルという猫を貰います。脱走癖がある。

脱走したマルを探していたティファにクラウドが山に入ってすぐのところにいたと教えてあげるんだけど、ティファがお礼を言った後、「エサやってないのか? 〜」ってちょっと憎まれ口叩くのは、照れくささを隠す男子のそれで、もう……本当に君は……。

真夜中に給水塔でって早口で言った後、逃げるように走っていくなんて、まさに想像していた通りの姿でした。

スラムに学校はなくて、親やボランティアが勉強を教えたみたいです。う……小説で学校って出してしまったよ!


テアさんは「クラウドは本当に美しい顔をしている」と生前言っていたみたいです。クラウドは美しい顔をしている。クラウドは美しい顔をしている……!しかもあのセフィロスよりも。それが嬉しいティファ。

二人はティファのママが亡くなる以前はよく一緒に遊んでいた。ティファは給水塔以前からクラウドに憧れを抱いていた。これは私見ですけど、ティファが一人の時間の心地よさに気が付いた時クラウドはその時間を大切にしていて、人からどう思われようと面倒ごとを拒否するその強さに憧れていたのかなと思いました。

思いつきだったけど、約束を交わした時からティファはクラウドを好きになった……! 好きになったって!! 可愛い……好き。

言っていることは他の子と変わらないのに、気負ったクラウドの姿が愛おしく思った……! 愛おしく!!!テストに出ます。

旅立ちの時は挨拶も何もなくて、予想通りになってティファは笑って、泣いた。くっ……。


Tifa gets a cat called Maru for her twelfth birthday. He has a habit of escaping.

When Tifa is looking for Maru, Cloud tells her he found her just inside the mountain, but after Tifa thanks him, he says, "You haven't fed her? 〜I'm sure you'll be able to understand that I'm not the only one who has a problem with that.

It was exactly what I imagined it would be like to be in a water tower in the middle of the night, saying something fast and then running away.

There was no school in the slum, so parents and volunteers taught them how to study. U ...... I've put the word school in fiction!


Thea said that "Cloud has a really beautiful face". I'm sure you'll agree with me. Cloud has a beautiful face. ......! And even more than that Sephiroth. That makes Tifa happy.

They used to play together before Tifa's mum died. I'm not sure if you've ever heard of this, but I'm sure you've heard of it. In my opinion, when Tifa realized the comfort of time alone, Cloud cherished that time and admired his strength to refuse to be bothered, no matter what people thought of him.

It was just an idea, but from the moment the promise was made, Tifa fell in love with Cloud. ......! She said she fell in love with him! Cute ...... like.

The things she said were the same as any other girl, but the way Cloud was so self-conscious made me love her ......! Love it! It will be on the test.

At the start of the journey, there was no greeting or anything, and as expected, Tifa laughed and cried. Damn .......


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


ザンガン師匠を人買いだと思ったティファ。確かに怪しかったもんね。

でも修行に励むようになってから、ティファの心身が健康になって思春期でもパパとの関係が良好だったのはとても良かったな、師匠ありがとうと思いました。

クラウドのお父さんは旅の人で、クラウドが一人歩きするかしないかくらいで山も向こうに行き、それっきりらしいです。持ち物は見つかったからモンスターに食べられたとか……びっくりよ。ザンガンさんが、モンスターを鍛練の相手に選んで命を落とした弟子……ではないよね?


エミリオがいつか迎えにいくよ的な手紙に、何様って思うティファちゃん
VBtk2BsBIaKuOGyk22HxWeCJIDdzI9es3JweA6ehHaaR0MvfL6TsC8e2putbr2nBhTcpsAaRPSbWEscpMJmGqYO1ewIPx_q_qPYiV9hGjqVtplMDSuJ1Rc2e09HpqHf2SDc7gFrN


ティファがニブル山から滑落したのはクラウドがそそのかしたせい、になっていて罪悪感を感じるティファ。でも記憶がないから真実もわからないくだりは読んでて辛かったです。

カウガールの衣装はパパの知り合いの女性からのお下がりで、帽子とブーツは自前。元気になれる格好!って可愛い。

クラウドさん、まさかクラウディアさんにもソルジャーになりたいとは伝えてなかった! 本当にティファだけが知る決意だったんだね。神羅に送った書類に不備があったのは笑いました。入隊した時にハガキを寄越したっきり連絡もしてないらしい。クラウディアさんはそれを「気が利かない」と称していて、本当そういう人なんだなって思った
e6HpGZR8mCD-Zf2RJ3zHWfi5hcXDc0F3DlxwSmEgKjScEGzIaDQo-NpP2PJ7FTIBJww7QnUHiJFcE0-YDV8ngg3U6PSzjptpPz0vTpKX3aZkV5TXNJGRYYEfd8s21MFAx6LaKGJ0



Tifa thought Master Zangan was a slave-dealer*. It was definitely suspicious.

But after he started his training, Tifa's physical and mental health improved and she had a good relationship with her dad even through puberty, which was great, thank you Master.

Cloud's father is a traveler, and it seems that Cloud went to the other side of the mountain and never saw him again, whether he walked alone or not. His belongings were found and were eaten by monsters. ...... I'm surprised. Zangan is not the apprentice ...... who lost his life because he chose a monster to train with, is he?


I'm sure you've heard of it, but I don't think I've ever heard of it.

This is the first time I've ever seen a character in a movie where they're all in the same room. I'm sure you'll agree that it's a great idea.

The cowgirl outfit is a hand-me-down from a woman my dad knows, and the hat and boots are his own. A cheerful outfit! That's cute.

Cloud, you never told Claudia that you wanted to be a soldier too! I guess only Tifa knew about this decision. I laughed when I saw that the documents I sent to Shinra were incomplete. They sent her a postcard when she joined the army and never contacted her again. Claudia called it "uncaring" and I thought she was really like that ?


*denshi jisho translates 人買い as slave dealer, slave traffic.


そして起こるニブル焼き討ち。

ティファは最初コレルに運ばれたけど、容体が安定しなくてジュノンかミッドガルに搬送しようということに。神羅本社の科学部門がその受け入れにオッケーしたけど、ザンガンさんが反対した。えー……これ、こわぁ……。何されるとこだったんだ。

結局ミッドガル八番街スラムのザンガンさんの弟子がやってる診療所に入院することに。そこで目覚めるティファ。すでに師匠はいない。

そこでは医師のダミー二と息子のラケスに良くしてもらうけど、莫大な治療費を払わなくてはならなくて紹介された(というか強制に近い)お饅頭の屋台の売り子としてコンテナで生活しながら借金を返済する日々。

そこにジェシーやビッグス、ウェッジが評判を聞きつけて買いにきたのがきっかけで知り合いになる。誕生日を祝うくだりとか、ジャシーがティファの話を聞くところは、本当に泣きました……。それを踏まえてリメイクやったらまた印象変わりそう。敬語のティファ可愛い。

マーレさんとは診療所で出会う。背中をモンスターにやられて皮膚移植が必要なんだけど、同じ手術を受けたティファの胸の写真を普通に見せた医師のダミー二とラケスに怒ってた。マーレさん、もうマーレさんには一生頭上がりません、私。

マーレさんのおかげでセブンスヘブンの存在を知って、そこで週一で内緒のアルバイトをするティファ。同じ頃に客として酷い暮らしぶりだったバレットとマリンにも出会う。バレットとマリンはティファのおかげでセブンスヘブンの地下に住まわせてもらうことに。そんな中、オーナーが急死して人手に渡りそうなセブンスヘブンを、何年も必死で働いて貯めた大金全て使って買い取ろうとするティファがあまりにいじらしくて……。

それなのに自分の部屋に帰ったらお金が消えてる!!

犯人は医師のミダーニとラケス。というかラケスがチョコボレースで借金こさえて治療費を水増ししてティファから巻き上げていただけでなく、貯金まで盗んだとか最低の極みすぎて……ティファが殴り「君が好きだ」って言葉でさらに蹴りを食らわせてくれて少し溜飲が下がりました。


Then comes the burning of Nibelheim.

Tifa was first taken to Corel, but her condition was not stable, so it was decided to take her to Junon or Midgar. I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I'm not the only one who's had a bit of trouble with the whole thing. What ...... is this, scary ....... What were they going to do to you?

In the end, she was admitted to a clinic run by Zangan's apprentice in the Midgar Eighth Street slum. Tifa wakes up there. The master is already gone.

She is treated well by the doctor, Dameini [ダミー二], and her son, Laquez [Rakusu? ラケス] , but she has to pay for her treatment, which is enormous, so she is introduced (or rather forced) to work as a bun vendor, living in a container to pay off her debts.

When Jessie, Biggs and Wedge hear about the buns and come to buy them, they get to know each other. I really cried when they celebrated her birthday and when Jessie listened to Tifa's story. ...... I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I'm sure it's a good idea. Marle, I will never be able to get over Marle, I will never be able to get over him.

Thanks to Marle, Tifa finds out about Seventh Heaven and works there once a week in secret. At the same time, she meets Barrett and Marlene, who have been living a terrible life as customers. Thanks to Tifa, Barrett and Marlene are allowed to live in the basement of Seventh Heaven. Tifa, who has been working hard for years to save up enough money to buy Seventh Heaven from the owner, who is about to die suddenly,.......

But when she gets back to her room, the money is gone!

The culprits are the doctors Midani and Lakes. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I'm sure it's a good idea. ...... I'm sure you'll agree.


……ティファの人生大変過ぎません? もちろんクラウドもだし、他のキャラもだけど。でもそんな境遇に負けずに頑張って生きていこうとする姿に感銘を受けました。

もう絶対絶対幸せに穏やかな人生歩んでくれないと私が爆発しそうです。でも絶対クラウドさんが幸せにしてくれることでしょう!!いや、二人で幸せになるんだ!!!!

終わり。


..... Isn't Tifa's life too hard? I'm not sure what to make of it, but I think it's a great idea. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I think it's a great idea.

I think I'm going to explode if he doesn't live a happy and peaceful life. But I'm sure Cloud will make you happy! No, we're going to be happy together. !!!!

The end.
 

Shadowfox

You look like you need a monkey
The fact that Tifa built her life up from essentially nothing when she first got there, at 16 years old, to then eventually buying Seventh Heaven and building a solid community of people around her — girl's got some hardcore drive in her. She's so great!

Knowing how difficult her struggles were in Midgar also makes the plate drop on Sector 7 hit me even harder now. Devastating enough to lose Nibelheim and everyone she'd ever known, but having to start all over again from rock bottom, building up a new life and community, only to witness the destruction of her home again? No wonder she was frozen when the plate fell and Cloud needed to pull her away.
 
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frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
Source: https://twitter.com/HayashiNagisa
Tifa met Jessie, Biggs and Wedge when she is working at the sweet bun vendor

The first time those trio visit the vendor, watching how they are hanging out and having fun, tears came down Tifa's cheek without her realizing it

[I envy them, I realized how lonely I am]

Jessie became a regular customer. One day when Tifa is on her way going back to home, she bumps into Jessie and start talking. Tifa have been secretly wanting to talk to Jessie for a while, she feels nervous.

And Jessie think Tifa's name is very cute just like herself! :DD

After they talk, Jessie walk Tifa home and found out she is burden with a large amount of debt and got concern. She start asking her question, and Tifa feels she can trust her, so she told Jessie about her past

Tifa is not looking for help, she just want someone to listen, someone to pat her on the back and tell her "You had it tough, but you did good"

And Jessie did just that, it made Tifa cried a little

From then, Tifa would meet up with Jessie once or twice a week, through her, she become friends with Biggs and Wedge too

Jessie pick cloth for Tifa, and taught her how to walk and keep posture, the way she does it when she was on the stage.

I'm not crying, you are :'(
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
You know, this really makes me regret that they lacked time to implement Tifa's special part where she and Jessie make up. Because damn, when Jessie dissed Tifa to Cloud, it really makes me dislike her a *lot* (I think the French version is especially unforgiving), but what is described in the book makes me like her a lot more. So Jessie's character in Remake lacks balance in her relationship with Tifa. And I'm really annoyed about it.
 
So Tifa is person who links Barret and Marlene to Biggs, Wedge and Jessie. I'd love to know how and under what circumstances she brought them together (when Barret started living at her bar and her friends came to drink there, maybe?) and which of them first made the suggestion that they join Avalanche.

I think something Nojima is really good at is bringing out the significance of the simple everyday aspects of living. No big drama brings Jessie, Tifa, Wedge and Biggs together. They're just customers at her bun shop and she envies their friendship. They bump into each other, realise they like each other, talk, become friends. It all feels so natural.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Calm down Ody, there is more to come XD Around only 100 pages of the Tifa's portion must have been covered, maybe a bit more, there are still around 100 pages to cover from my guess lol.

Edit: here is Tifa meeting with Barret and Marlene!

Days goes by, Tifa became closer with Jessie, she sometimes gets invite to join Avalanche's meeting too

When Tifa met Marle again, 3 years has gone by since she first came to Midgar

Marle took Tifa to 7th Heaven, where she met an elderly bar keeper who works alone in a bar with barely any business

Under Mrle's recommendation, Tifa start working at the bar too. With Tifa's help, 7th Heaven quickly became a very busy place

One day, the owner of 7th Heaven fell ill and is hospitalized. During his time of absent, Barret and Marlene walk through the door of 7th Heaven, they met Tifa for the first time

They are homeless, Marlene was 2 years old and looks like she hasn't shower for a few days. She wasn't wearing socks, and her shoes have holes on it. Tifa became very concern over how bad Marlene needs a good bath and clean clothes, and wants to do something for them

Marle can't believe Tifa thinks she is in a place where she can afford to worry about other people, but decided to lend a helping hand by talking to the owner of 7th Heaven. She manage to convince the owner to let Barret and Marlene live in the basement. She also got Marlene some clean cloth


But, the owner of 7th Heaven pass away after a week. They've been told if they can't come up with $160000 gil to purchase the store themselves, the bar will be sold to other interested party

Knowing he can't afford it, Barret quickly gave up. But Marlene doesn't want to live on the street again, she ran away from Barret and hides behind Tifa and start crying: [I want to stay here!]

Tifa couldn't bare to see Marlen cry, so she told Barret she actually have the money to purchase 7th Heaven

She has been saving money for 3 years now, according to her calculation in about 2 years, she'll be able to save enough to pay off her debt, but now she decided to use that money to pay for the bar, because she wants Marlen to have a home...
 
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cold_spirit

he/him
AKA
Alex T
I have to say, this light novel release has indirectly led me to uninstall Twitter from my phone. The LTD bullshit I've seen is unreal.

I've sworn an oath to never comment on the LTD unless it's to say it's dumb. Well it's dumb. An archaic and icky trope I wish they left in the 90's.

Before Remake released I muted every FFVII related word to avoid spoilers. I've since removed those muted words. It's taken a while, but the Twitter algorithm has slowly picked up that I'm a FFVII fan. Now I see so much LTD sewage posted under the Final Fantasy topic (which involuntarily appears in my timeline) that I need to step away. I even muted the words "cloti" and "clerith" and people's passive aggressive subtweets still penetrate.

Just had to complain. I want to enjoy Two Pasts but the greater fandom can't seem to handle it and I hate that the algorithm proliferates the absolute worst takes.
 
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