Translated Interviews from the Kaitai Shinsho (AKA Dismantled) Complete Guide

[TurquoiseHammer]

I remember that the game guide section of this book had a few snippets that were essentially the characters' reactions to the events of the story as they happened. I've always wanted to see those, but I've never been able to find a translation anywhere. Any chance you'll look at those too?

I can take a look at these. I haven't even glanced at the contents of the book aside from the interviews, but now in literally the first pages I'm seeing that there are plenty of other "canon" remarks from staff. For instance, this wild snippet about Cloud's armlet from Nomura that I've never heard about:

"In the early stages of development, Cloud's left arm was sealed with this bracelet. When he escaped from the spirit world, the seal would be broken and he'd become able to use both arms, increasing his powers."

「開発初期、クラウドはこの腕輪により左腕が封印されていた。精神世界から脱出したとき、はじめて封印が解け、両腕が使えるようになってパワーアップする予定だっったのだ。」

I have so many questions! It must be referring to the bracelet on his left arm, which I always sort of assumed was the Bronze Bangle he starts out with (though looking at the two, it obviously isn't). And is the spirit world this is referring to supposed to be the Mideel Lifestream sequence, or some earlier scenario they had planned? I'm getting a strong itch to translate all of these character comments.

Edit: Actually, this maybe isn't a direct quote. The first blurb on the page is credited to Nomura, but the rest don't have quotation marks. So we have to depend on the author and editors to be authentic.

Another Nomura comment: in the early stages Barret had a crossbow on his arm instead of a gun....

-Nomura asked the other staff if Tifa should have a miniskirt or leggings and they resoundingly went with miniskirt.

-The fat moogle Cait Sith rides could have been a fat chocobo, but Nomura settled on the former.

-Interesting little bit in the Jenova description "confirms" (it's not a quote or anything) that SOLDIERs are born from Jenova (i.e., receive her cells, not just mako, which some people believe is a retcon introduced in the 2005 Ultimania, although the scrapped airship dialogue and the Junon shopkeeper who dons the robe contradict this).

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Okay @Odysseus I've come to the main scenario pages. The pages are separated into "Mind" and "Action" columns. The "Action" column contains practical information like route information, strategies, and collectibles, while the "Mind" column contains a first-person narrative account for each section of the story. I'll try to pull out whatever catches my eye, though and jot it down here.

-Right off the bat, Cloud talking about his hatred and hostility toward Shinra
-Cloud praying to himself that there aren't any SOLDIERs posted around the reactor when they arrive
-Aerith notices Cloud's mako eyes right away in Sector 8
-Aerith smiles when Cloud buys the flower, and Cloud thinks to himself it's a small price to pay to see that smile
-Jessie is racked with guilt hearing that Cloud fell from the plate
-Tifa spots Cloud in the playground park and thinks he's an apparition, convinced he died
-Tifa normally doesn't get along with other girls right away, but she immediately likes Aeirth
-Barret estimates the number of Sector 7 and slums residents at "thousands... no, tens of thousands," which is accurate with Remake's 50,000 figure
-Barret also thinks Cloud is a phantom when he sees him ascending the pillar
-Aerith says Hojo looks at her like he looks at his lab equipment
-Aerith can immediately sense Red XIII's humanity
-Aerith thinks Cloud is like a hero. He'll come and save anyone in a pinch, be it her or Tifa. She tacks on another reward date in her head.
-Despite her hatred of Shinra, Tifa hates to see all the slaughter outside the cell.
-Seeing Sephiroth's sword, Tifa thinks back to being slashed by it in the Nibelheim reactor. She realizes Cloud must have been there because he remembers it, but she can't clearly remember how he factored into it all.
-Cloud assumes that because he's still alive, Sephiroth must have died at the reactor
-Aerith notes how both Cloud and Tifa are acting strange after the Kalm story
-Barret has constipation from being so angry at Rufus and Heidegger yet being unable to blow his disguise and do anything to them on the ship.
-Barret is chilled by how [illusion] Sephiroth looked
-Barret thinks Marlene would like the way he looks in the sailor outfit
-Aerith says she met Zack while selling flowers in Midgar
-Aerith never really got to know Zack well. She thought he was a childishly playful SOLDIER who was kind to all the girls. Meeting Zack made Aerith think not all Shinra employees are bad.
-When Zack disappeared on his new mission five years ago, Aerith cried a lot. It was her first relationship, after all. Elmyra got made at Zack for that.
-When Aerith met Cloud, she thought he looked a lot like Zack. He had the same mannerisms and speech, and was kind in similar ways.
-Aerith thinks she definitely likes Cloud now more than she liked Zack, but Cloud is so slow to catch on
-Cloud hears from Elder Bugah who heard from Gast that Jenova isn't an Ancient but an alien lifeform
-Cloud finds the notes about the two subjects (him and Zack) in the Shinra Mansion basement and feels sick and disoriented
-Yuffie briefly simps for Cloud after the Wutai stuff
-Aerith sends Cloud the dream vision: "Take care of yourself." "Our Gold Saucer date was beautiful." "We'll meet again when this is all over." "I'll never forget you." etc.
-Hojo evidently knew Gast's whereabouts but was biding his time until Gast and Ifalna had a child

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The big trouble with Dismantled and it's take on characters (especially in Maiden Who Travels the Planet) is that lots of details about character backgrounds are flat out *wrong* compared to the game (stuff like Cloud *really* being a SOLDIER in the past) and a lot of them feel out of character (Aerith being jealous of Tifa and wanting Cloud to herself). The author was a big Cloud/Aerith shipper and... that shows though in a lot of places. He also *really* liked the "Pink Jesus" take on Aerith's personality...

Dismantled came out in March of 1997, two months after FFVII was released in January (and that wouldn't even be the International Version!). Given the timing (how long it would take for Dismantled to be written, edited, printed)... I am very suspicious most of the characterization was based off of older FFVII information that would later be changed in the OG by Nojima given he... never wrote anything down about *a lot* of FFVII's backstory until he was making the cutscenes... Which was when *everyone* working on the game found out what was actually going on in the backstory of FFVII. And it's the backstory where Maiden clashes the most with the actual game.

So... take anything about characterization/motivations that isn't directly from a dev in Dismantled with a heaping spoonful of salt.

 

[Odysseus]

Honestly I would have preferred Aerith meeting Zack like that instead of rehashing the scene from the original game like they ultimately did.

 

[eleamaya]

Oh that's interesting. So they were thinking like that all the way back in 1997. Interesting. Very interesting. So this AVALANCHE HQ ain't so new after all.

This and

A: Despite the work they do, the Turks haven’t bound themselves body and soul to the goals of Shinra—they’re more shrewd and businesslike than that, and aren’t about to lay down their lives just to thwart Cloud’s group.

Now I get why Before Crisis is the first expanded Compilation

 

[Makoeyes987]

Would've been so fucking awesome if Denzel fell through the Church roof too.

"... I think Aerith sent this child to us, Tifa."

"Why is that Cloud?"

"He fell through the Church roof. That's how I found him."

"Oh... Yeah she probably did, then. Yup."

 

[Thenir]

"In the early stages of development, Cloud's left arm was sealed with this bracelet. When he escaped from the spirit world, the seal would be broken and he'd become able to use both arms, increasing his powers."

This is so interesting! Early stages of the development means also a scenario without Zack so, I guess, an even closer relation between Cloud and Sephiroth. Maybe I'm overthinking but in AC Cloud's left arm is the one affected by Geostigma.

Okay @Odysseus I've come to the main scenario pages. The pages are separated into "Mind" and "Action" columns. The "Action" column contains practical information like route information, strategies, and collectibles, while the "Mind" column contains a first-person narrative account for each section of the story. I'll try to pull out whatever catches my eye, though and jot it down here. Big disclaimer to those who don't know: these passages aren't considered canon and were written by the same author who wrote "Maiden Who Travels the Planet." Nevertheless, this should be fun.... At the very least we can enjoy it as a sort of high-quality fan ficiton.

Did Studio Bentstuff compile other additional materials for the previous FF titles? Or better, was it an usual practice to add these bits of personal thoughts to enrich the character's personalities and motivations? While many parts actually do really clash with what was later established in official entries, I don't think any serious company would have arbitrarily added personal interpretations without consent of SquareSoft. Indeed they compiled all the following Ultimanias up to now.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The thing to really do is to compare Dismantled to the Early Material Files from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania. Those are even *earlier* than what Dismantled is pulling from as Jenova wasn't even... what we know as Jenova at the point. Only thing is, Zack is never mentioned in those...

It cannot be overstated how in the 10th Anniversary Creator Interview, Kitase and Nomura (and Nojima!) says Nojima *did not* write down in the scenario that Zack existed until he actually made the flashback cutscenes with Zack... and that happened so late it couldn't be shipped with the "normal" version of FFVII. It had to wait for the International Version (October 1997) for Zack's cut-scenes to finally be added into the game. So even if Studio Bentstuff *did* compile everything that the FFVII team had at the time... they more than likely would have been missing a lot of stuff from the game's story that was in Nojima's head at the time.

There is only a two month gap between the release of FFVII and Dismantled.... and then a six month gap between Dismantled and the International Version of FFVII. That's... probably not enough time to write Dismantled from scratch. So it is highly likely that the bulk of Dismantled was written in *advance* before the game launched... and so would have pulled from earlier (and very incomplete!) dev materials. At least when it came to what the game itself actually went into. Even when Dismantled was *published*, there were already parts of it that weren't canonical to the OG, mainly in Maiden Who Travels the Planet about Cloud's backgroud (he really *was* in SOLDIER according to Maiden, etc.) And then the International added in more *after* Dismantled was published that makes parts of Dismantled definetly *not* canonical...

Just... Dismantled is *really* problematic because we have parts of it not following canon from Day 1 and no way of knowing how involved the devs were with writing it or even what point in the development process the author was pulling from. At least with the interviews in Dismantled, we have a *very* good idea of who is talking about what and providing commentary.

 

[Thenir]

There is only a two month gap between the release of FFVII and Dismantled.... and then a six month gap between Dismantled and the International Version of FFVII. That's... probably not enough time to write Dismantled from scratch.

I have the same feeling. Anyway IIRC they re-published a revised version of Dismantled in late '97 or early '98 where they added some info about the parts released in the international version.
I get that back then it really wasn't perceived as something important. The game had to be a standalone entry so the personal thoughts added in that guide book were pretty harmless, and, indeed because the first release lacked important plot elements, I understand that maybe the aim of those descriptions was just to fill some plot holes. They only started to create confusion when the devs actually decided to expand FFVII universe adding elements and backstories that clashed with these external materials.

Even when Dismantled was *published*, there were already parts of it that weren't canonical to the OG, mainly in Maiden Who Travels the Planet about Cloud's backgroud (he really *was* in SOLDIER according to Maiden, etc.)

Maiden was published in September 2005 with Ultimania Omega (worth mentioning that DoC was released on January 2006, it seems to me there was really no cooperation between the devs and Matsuyama considering that the part about Hojo clashes with what's shown in that game).

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Did Studio Bentstuff compile other additional materials for the previous FF titles? Or better, was it an usual practice to add this bits of personal thoughts to enrich the character's personalities and motivations? While many parts actually do really clash with what was later established in official entries, I don't think any serious company would have arbitrarily added personal interpretations without consent of SquareSoft. Indeed they compiled all the following Ultimanias up to now.

I don't have any special knowledge about this, but my impression is that Square knew the "Mind" stuff was going to be in the book and didn't have any problems with it. Especially back then, the game was what it was and pretty much spoke for itself. The "Mind" sections are introduced as first-person dramatizations that will stimulate readers' imaginations as they play through the corresponding sections of the game.

"Maiden" is a lot more divisive, IMO, because it was written in the middle of the compilation, after BC and before AC, when people were ready to incorporate any officially published scraps into their understanding of the greater FFVII universe.

More to the point of your question, there was an early BentStuff member, Ichirō Tezuka, who also became a story writer for FFIV: The After Years. He then novelized FFIV and FFIV: The After Years, and I think those novelizations are now considered canon, at least in how they expand the universe (I'm not very in touch with FFIV, though). So I guess what I'm saying is there is some blurring of the lines in terms of canon with non-company writers. Matsuyama has also written a bunch of other novellas for the franchise, but I don't think there are any other cases like "Maiden" where fans get heated about whether the story is canon.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Maiden was published in September 2005 with Ultimania Omega (worth mentioning that DoC was released on January 2006, it seems to me there was really no cooperation between the devs and Matsuyama considering that the part about Hojo clashes with what's shown in that game).

Thanks for the correction.

It's further complicated in that in 2009, Case of Lifestream would be published which is *Nojima's* account of... essentially the same thematic elements of Maiden... that of what Aerith was doing in the Lifestream... which was... *very* different from Maiden. Thing is... Nojima had already written some of the "Case of" Novellas back in 2005. So that's... a four year time period of when he could have come up with those ideas.

While with Maiden... it was published with the Ultimania Omega... but who knows *when* it was actually written or what info it was taking into account. It *certianly* doesn't seem to take *any* of the new info from the International Version of FFVII into account... which had already been out for eight years by that point. Or any other Compilaiton info. Which... there would have been by that point. Beofre Crisis stared development in 2002, and Advent Children was in development for years before it was released in 2005. And Zack was... much more fleshed out by then, even if Crisis Core was still several years off.

And that doesn't even get into *basic* worldbuilding from the OG that is wrong in Maiden. You have stuff like Cloud *not* lying about being in SOLDIER... which we know from the OG was *never* the case....

Which I guess explains why I always thought Maiden was written when Dismantled was. The *lack* of FFVII canon info in it makes it feel like it was written with an earlier draft of FFVII in mind than what the OG's final story was.

 

[jeangl123]

Based on the google translation at least it seems Matsuyama, even in the Ultimania, said it was an original interpretation.

http://www.bent.co.jp/lineup_day/作品紹介詳細　um19/

There's also this Japanese wiki that says his works aren't canon even when put in an official setting, but I don't know how reliable this is even though it cites the StudioBent website.

https://wikiwiki.jp/ffdic/スタッフ/【ベニー松山】

This one I find interesting. It's what he said about writing a novel for FFX where he had no idea as to what FFX-2 would look like. So does this mean that he wasn't given much information for this novel either?
http://www.bent.co.jp/lineup_day/作品紹介詳細　um14/

 

[Makoeyes987]

Benny writes corporate sponsored fan fiction. Problem solved

It's just a creative exercise for entertainment, nothing more. It's no different than Madhouse being given license to animate the Nibelheim Incident utilizing content from FFVII and Before Crisis, even when the production flew in the face of certain "truths" that were part of the canon continuity of FFVII.

It just happens. Creative fluidity.

 

[eleamaya]

my impression is that Square knew the fan-fictiony "Mind" stuff was going to be in the book and didn't have any problems with it. Especially back then, the game was what it was and pretty much spoke for itself. The "Mind" sections are introduced as first-person dramatizations that will stimulate readers' imaginations as they play through the corresponding sections of the game.

I wonder if this "Mind" scenario section is a similar thing to "Voice Script" section in FF7R Material Ultimania Plus.
Who wrote that part in FF7R Material Ultimania Plus? Is that Toriyama? Or Benstuff studio based on Nojima's script?
Anyway, please continue the "Mind" section, I'm really curious to see all the things that doesn't fit Compilation.

there was an early BentStuff member, Ichirō Tezuka, who also became a story writer for FFIV: The After Years. He then novelized FFIV and FFIV: The After Years, and I think those novelizations are now considered canon, at least in how they expand the universe (I'm not very in touch with FFIV, though). So I guess what I'm saying is there is some blurring of the lines in terms of canon with non-company writers,

I'm not in touch as well, but it's clear Tezuka is part of the development team who made FF4 sequel. He is the scriptwriter, just like Hiroki Chiba for FF7 Dirge of Cerberus. So, if Chiba wrote a novelization of DoC that Nojima never touched, his novel would be canon as well. It doesn't matter that Tezuka isn't Square Enix's employee but from Benstuff Studio, just like Nojima has always been credited from Stellavista since he quited.

Matsuyama, on the other hand, is never a part of any FF devs team.

Matsuyama has also written a bunch of other novellas for the franchise, but I don't think there are any other cases like "Maiden" where fans get heated about whether the story is canon.

Welcome to Love Triangle Heated. Tbh, it's easy to see it's not canon, but yeah, a certain shipper group is very denial lol.

t's just a creative exercise for entertainment, nothing more. It's no different than Madhouse being given license to animate the Nibelheim Incident utilizing content from FFVII and Before Crisis, even when the production flew in the face of certain "truths" that were part of the canon continuity of FFVII.

But LO is always listed as FF7 Official Works. Idk if this was true or not, but I ever heard that the devs "made an excuse" about LO canonicity by saying the incident is from Turks perspective. Some scenes are made into CC and ACC anyway. To me, the only crucial aspect that contradicts the most is the way Sephiroth throw himself to mako and even sheds a tear, it changes the narrative!

 

[MelodicEnigma]

If I may, as someone who has actively been researching information about Studio BentStuff, their website comments, along with just paratexts in general—it's generally best to keep in line with a similar thought @Makoeyes987 presents when it comes to this type of supplemental material in their content. In trying not to bore ya'll with more info foliage than I already will, it's essentially BentStuff's niche to add creative "projects" within their books, to give readers much more experience than just a plain guidebook could offer, and as a company founded by writers, more story-written stuff is one of the ways they accomplish this. It also helps Matsuyama essentially co-founded the company with others, and is one of the Directors. This general approach in other things, like scenario considerations, including expanse of artwork, interviews + dev comments, scores (they've even transcribed themselves), analysis, speed run info, etc.—it's one of the reasons they're so good at what they do, and they've long incorporated this ideal very early in their lifespan back in the All About series. The fiction stuff, it's mostly for the sake of the book, entertaining reading, which is the same idea as some of the previously mentioned project-like things. The idea itself though is kind of normal for A LOT of paratext even not made by BentStuff, really, and it's not always meant to be a concern of canonicity. Some are crazily obscure, like that old FFX World Guide (not BentStuff) lol There are definitely some that are canonical, though, and you have the backing of information and functionality to serve its place (like the supplements in the World Guides, for instance, that go beyond those paratexts eventually). For BentStuff, though, when you think about how their stuff works, it becomes a non-controversy as to why Matsuyama's materials for FF7/him as a writer "for" the series doesn't have the same backing as you'll find in other situations.

At least for the majority, there are some reasonable exceptions.

If we're talking about canonicity, the case by case has to be judged accordingly to how we should understand it through authorship, or other things like its peritext to suss out how we view the work in whatever source. How the work is applied to the canon is big, too. Like, there's few cases where Matsuyama went beyond guidebooks and worked on games BentStuff has made materials for, like he's pretty well endowed in the SaGa series—for FF, his novella for FFXIII, once just an original work, was grandfatherly-justified by his later influence on the FFXIII: LR novel, and he has a game credit for LR too, technically, whatever the hek "SNS Writer- (For Lightning)" is supposed to mean—and at the very least his writings for the Brave Fencer Kaitai Shinsho actually have the standard supporting peritext and involvement from the game's illustrator that gives its intention as more than his own original work.

But as it is, for FF7 it just really isn't there for him. It's just fun stuff for the sake of the book and we won't see it's application past that. And that's mostly on topic of that type of specific works—the fictional stuff. For things like the Voice Script @eleamaya, it depends on what exactly it is (i'm sorry, I don't have the book unfortunately)—BentStuff is consistently good at saying who does what in their book credits, so whoever is in charge of creating each section is listed. Info-wise, from what I've seen of the Voice Script stuff, it seems like something that would be part of the materials given by PR/Developers as opposed to BentStuff's own gathering of info/analysis from the game itself, like you'll see in their Story Playbacks often. I think a good rule of thumb for the more non-fictional stuff like that Voice Script or Character Profiles, is if it's including the more straight n' narrow information that can't be gotten from the game alone, chances are that information is straight from the Devs anyway. The one in charge of that section (along with their supports if needed) would've probably then just organized and edited that information as given.

 

[Makoeyes987]

But LO is always listed as FF7 Official Works. Idk if this was true or not, but I ever heard that the devs "made an excuse" about LO canonicity by saying the incident is from Turks perspective. Some scenes are made into CC and ACC anyway. To me, the only crucial aspect that contradicts the most is the way Sephiroth throw himself to mako and even shed a tear!

I mean, so is FFVII G-Bike and FFVII Snowboarding.

Just because it's official, doesn't mean it's canon.

It's simply entertainment with no real bearing outside of its own scenario and storytelling. Last Order is from the Turks perspective and that can be used to handwave it's contradictions. Use whatever Thermian Argument you wish, however that doesn't change that it's functionally a new adaption of a critical moment in FFVII done by Madhouse where they take creative liberty utilizing their character designs and stuff from Before Crisis.

And I would say the fact Cloud literally talked to Tifa, Tifa saw him unmasked, and they even embraced and shared a touching emotional reunion sorta blows up the whole mystery and confusion Tifa has regarding whether or not Cloud was at Nibelheim at all. If all that had happened, then Tifa's memory is just as fucked up as Cloud's.

 

[eleamaya]

And I would say the fact Cloud literally talked to Tifa, Tifa saw him unmasked, and they even embraced and shared a touching emotional reunion sorta blows up the whole mystery and confusion Tifa has regarding whether or not Cloud was at Nibelheim at all. If all that had happened, then Tifa's memory is just as fucked up as Cloud's.

Maybe Tifa thinks it's just a dream since she misses Cloud so much instead of having Zack, then never brought it up till she's confused at Cloud's story in Kalm and question if it was a dream or reality and later confirmed in LS. I mean, Lifestream scene in OG also suggests that Tifa opens her eyes when Cloud carries her CMIIW.

What I know is LO is never part of the compilation. But the story is still canon. Nibelheim incident is not a new thing but part of canon. Just like Snowboarding and G-Bike being a part of mini-game that exists in OG.

Maiden is not compilation as well as LO, Snowboardings, G-Bike. But it's not official because Nomura just asked BentStuff for a new Ultimania but no one from SE suggests about the novella, let alone ever supervise it. The idea came from BentStuff themselves since Matsuyama had written short stories inserted in FF10, FF10-2, FF Crystal Chronicle Ultimania Omega before FF7. So why not FF7 novella? This is different from LO because Nomura gave Madhouse his input and supervise them. Last, it's not even canon because we find nowhere in the game hinting about Aerith's journey post-death up to meteor because the devs just want us to feel loss so she's dead DEAD. It's entirely new material and Nojima can completely write off that story if he wanted.

So yeah as you and @MelodicEnigma said, it's just a creative exercise for entertainment, just fun stuff for the sake of Ultimania Omega and we won't see its application past that.

What I'm not sure is how I'm supposed to view this "Mind" scenario section in Dismantled. But I guess it's just accurate for stand-alone OG, an ex-canon supporting material that should not be quoted anywhere post-Compilation.

for FF, his novella for FFXIII, once just an original work, was grandfatherly-justified by his later influence on the FFXIII: LR novel, and he has a game credit for LR too, technically, whatever the heck "SNS Writer- (For Lightning)" is supposed to mean—and at the very least his writings for the Brave Fencer Kaitai Shinsho actually have the standard supporting peritext and involvement from the game's illustrator that gives its intention as more than his own original work.

I'm not familiar with FF13 fandom. So far, I just check FF wikia how bias that site is to insert Maiden within the box of FF7 series but not his other novellas on FF10, FF12, and FF Crystal Chronicle Series box. But then I found his FF13 novella is also listed, idk maybe this one is canon because as you said, he was credited later on in the game sequel. So, it's the same as him being part of the devs as story writer/concept just like Tezuka on FF4.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Last Order is official but it is definitely not canon to the Compilation given it raises serious concerns. G-Bike is also wholly separate than the mini-game of FFVII, they completely overhauled that mini-game, it's more than just a port of the OG mini-game.

And even if one were to take your far reaching explanation for Tifa forgetting literally speaking to Cloud after he took off his grunt helmet and saved her like she always wanted, it would raise a metric ton of questions as to why she would fail to remember, question or even consider that... It wasn't a dream. The very fact she held a clear conversation with Cloud referencing their promise, but forgot the most precious memory to her while vividly remembering every single thing of that incident except that, sorta collapses the entire premise of the mystery of who Cloud is in FFVII.

 

[Odysseus]

Is the fact that things play out completely differently in Crisis Core not evidence enough that Last Order doesn't count?

 

[Eerie]

Even I, as a cloti fan, I don't count LO. It's nice to have around, but I don't think it's canon.

The true Nibelheim flashback will definitely change in Remake though, they keep making adjustements to that. But I don't think we'll get Cloud and Tifa hold a conversation.

 

[frosty]

Is the fact that things play out completely differently in Crisis Core not evidence enough that Last Order doesn't count?

I believe I read an interview in the past that producer Hideki Imaizumi said they had so much backlash re. the LO plot, they made sure they didn't repeat the same mistakes in Crisis Core. But LO in it's very early stages was actually used as trailer material for the announcement of Crisis Core.

A: Despite the work they do, the Turks haven’t bound themselves body and soul to the goals of Shinra—they’re more shrewd and businesslike than that, and aren’t about to lay down their lives just to thwart Cloud’s group. By now I expect they’ve found other work to do elsewhere. Elena probably went back to her parents’ house, though I’m not sure where that is [laughs].

Then...interestingly enough, the Turks are back with Shinra and Rufus in both Advent Children and the Kids Are Alright.

A: Tifa becomes very clingy after that event, and I think that’s actually her true personality. The protagonists this time are all more or less deceiving one other—there’s this feeling that everyone is pretending to be someone they aren’t.

...and the bit about Tifa being ベタベタ, which I translated as "clingy" for lack of a more generous term

Funnily, in the Reunion files interview for Advent Children many years later, Nomura uses that exact term " ベタベタ," to say what he does NOT want Tifa to be portrayed as.

The director, Nomura, said he wanted me to make sure she wasn’t a clingy woman, but to portray her as though she’s been hurt emotionally in a way that others around her cannot easily detect.

野村からも、ベタベタした感じにはしないでほしいと言われてたこともあって、周囲には悟られないように傷付いてる感じですね。

It's really interesting how the creators themselves change and evolve the story and the characterizations as the years go by.

 

[Eerie]

He was talking about AC/C there though. but I think what we the fans have a difficulty to discern is that, first the developpers have all a variation in their head of a character - maybe Nojima and Nomura will disagree on some details, for example, even though the core of said character is the same. We also have to accept that what was one a one shot game became much more with all its spin offs in a variety of medias they sure weren't expecting when they first created FFVII.

As the lore expanded, details were *added* or even *modified* in a way that would suit their needs. We have to accept to revisit what we once knew and think "this has been changed, because it explains what the devs wanted to convey in a better way" - it is of course exceptionnally visible with Remake, but it also marks all the other games, see the Nibelheim flashback that keeps being modified throughout every medium they used to describe it. They're not static. Things evolve because they think it's better this way, because it will make a game more easy to understand, because it will give more exposure to something we didn't know about, because it adds or highlights better. The characters don't really vary, they evolve, yes - we often forget about that, but they showed us how their characters could evolve or not - so Cloud, Tifa, Vincent, Barrett... they will all be different in VII (and Remake) than in their +2/+3 years versions. Because they have lived through OG/Remake, they have evolved and changed (this is what is asked for good characters) but we, as fans, are often stuck on ONE version. We too need to go back and look at the evolution, understand that Tifa after Northern Crater is not the same than Tifa during ACC.

 

[Thenir]

it's essentially BentStuff's niche to add creative "projects" within their books, to give readers much more experience than just a plain guidebook could offer, and as a company founded by writers, more story-written stuff is one of the ways they accomplish this. It also helps Matsuyama essentially co-founded the company with others, and is one of the Directors. This general approach in other things, like scenario considerations, including expanse of artwork, interviews + dev comments, scores (they've even transcribed themselves), analysis, speed run info, etc.—it's one of the reasons they're so good at what they do, and they've long incorporated this ideal very early in their lifespan back in the All About series. The fiction stuff, it's mostly for the sake of the book, entertaining reading, which is the same idea as some of the previously mentioned project-like things. The idea itself though is kind of normal for A LOT of paratext even not made by BentStuff, really, and it's not always meant to be a concern of canonicity.

This clarifies the situation.
Nonetheless it's still annoying that they unwillingly created this confusion. Everytime Dismantled is mentioned the conversation digresses on those four quotes to revolve around shipping arguments and all the rest of the book gets overshadowed as if it didn't contain anything else important. And it's a real pity, these interview is pure gold, probably one of the most interesting things I've seen so far.

It's no different than Madhouse being given license to animate the Nibelheim Incident utilizing content from FFVII and Before Crisis, even when the production flew in the face of certain "truths" that were part of the canon continuity of FFVII.

However Nojima was personally involved in the creation of Last Order and it's mentioned in every official material, even the most recent ones. It's just my opinion but I think LO was never meant to "rewrite" parts of the story, but it's rather to be considered a self-contained standalone piece.
It's true that Tifa is not supposed to awake during Nibelheim incident and see Cloud but the lines they exchange ("sorry I'm late"-"no, it's alright") are more or less the same of the OG during the Lifestream sequence, when Tifa finds out that Cloud really saved her when she was in a pinch - and Cloud realizes that even if he perceived he had failed that day, she didn't. It condenses their backstory that serves also as foundation of the AC scene where Cloud finds again Tifa agonizing in the church and collapses overwhelmed by the sense of failure. Now I'm not totally sure about the differences between AC and ACC because I saw the former years ago and never again, but in the complete version they exchange the same lines when Cloud saves her from the collapsing building. Moreover there are some visual parallels between Zack taking care of mako poisoned Cloud in LO (carring him on the backseat of the motorbike holding his hand) and Cloud deciding to take care of Denzel in front of Aerith's church.

Sephiroth's death is controversial, but it just followed the setting of Before Crisis. That change was annoying but I have to admit that also Sephiroth hanging from the hilt of the sword with his arm stiff as a piece of wood goes against the laws of physiscs.

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Info-wise, from what I've seen of the Voice Script stuff, it seems like something that would be part of the materials given by PR/Developers as opposed to BentStuff's own gathering of info/analysis from the game itself, like you'll see in their Story Playbacks often.

I'm pretty certain this is correct considering there are calls for ad-libbing in the scripts and lines that were omitted or changed in the final product.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

About Tifa being awake and knowing it's Cloud in LO...

Those lines that she says while being awake *are* in the OG!!!!

Tifa
How could you do that to papa and all the townspeople?

She climbs the stairs and raises the sword over her head to attack him, but Sephiroth pulls the Masamune from her grasp and slashes her. She falls down the stairs, landing near Cloud as he runs in. The door to Jenova's chamber opens, and Sephiroth turns and enters. Cloud kneels to gather Tifa in his arms.

Tifa
...You promised... You promised that you'd come...... when I was in trouble...

He carries her to the side and sets her down, then runs inside Jenova's chamber to confront Sephiroth.

It's just that... most people playing the OG think the line about the promise is commentary Tifa says to Cloud in the "present" in Kalm rather than in the flashback. LO had that line happen in the flashback while Cloud is carrying Tifa... right where the OG says it should be. CC sidesteps the issue by not showing that scene at all because Zack wasn't there for it.

So it's still up in the air if Tifa woke up and talked to Cloud at Nibelheim Reactor or not. Given how traumatic the event was... it wouldn't be surprising if she forgot Cloud really was there. She's *always* been portrayed as not having clear memories of the Nibelheim herself. And she's suffering from massive blood loss from being slashed by Masamune then too...