Translation of the original japanese game project aka How to wind up flunkies

[Channy]

Let me slice this one at you. I have now spoke to 4 japanese speaking people, 2 at qhimms. All 3, apart from the one here are in agreement that flunkies is incorrect

Well I've spoken to 7 Japanese people and they ALL say flunkies is correct.

It's easy to make flagrant points with no proof, isn't it?

Thats right, in agreement. So that means 3-1 OVER RULED.

My 7 > Your 3

Since I am asking a number of people and then making a decision based as a group, flunkies is history. Not because I say so, but because the majority says so and I have the final word on it. And WE say bye bye to it. It is wrong.

It's your retranslation you can do whatever you want. But all you're doing is creating more question marks for people by removing a common word and replacing it for a literal translation, thus completely ruining what a lot of people have followed thus far with game, and therefore ruining the experience. *claps*

I wont indulge ignorance. I will be back here when I need help with the translation. If anyone wants to lend their hand to the project then they are free to do so. If they dont then the translation will go based on those who have had input.

Why would you be back here for help, and moreover why do you assume a lot of us will want to help you? You've basically called us arrogant ignorant assholes who don't know shit about Japanese when some of the mods actually do.

We tried to give you a forumwide input on the word flunkies, and you've completely disregarded what we had to say and just said "NO GTFO UR RONG, MAI 5 FORUMS R RITE".

Dont be so arrogant as to assume you know more than the other 3 japanese I have spoke to. That isnt good for this project and how we are to progress in making this game better, rather than argue about a rather daft word.

Don't be so self absorbed to completely disregard people's opinions and expect us to lend a hand when you'll come frolicking back for more insight. It may be a daft word, but it's in no way the wrong one to use.

 

[Pixel]

uh wtf. Seriously guys, calm the fuck down. You make this place look like an asshole paradise imo.

Flunkies doesnt fit as a word imo. Whether its a literal translation or not. Seph isnt a flunky kinda guy.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Umm, we are calm. And what do you mean he's "not a flunky kinda guy?" He's got people in cloaks chanting and saying they serve him and want to be one with him. They obediently follow his will without question. They travel the planet obeying his commands. How are they NOT flunkies?

Flunkeyism (also spelled flunkyism; Korean hangŭl: 사대주의 (事大主&#32681, romanisation: Sadae juŭi) is a term indicating toadyism, servile attitude, or worship of the powerful. The word derives from flank, being on the side, and is also associated with lackey. It is first recorded in Scottish writing from 1782, meaning footman, sidesman, the person attending on the side. The word serves a major role in North Korean political rhetorics, and is in particular used to describe South Korea's supposedly servile attitude to the USA.

flun⋅ky
  /ˈflʌŋki/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fluhng-kee]
–noun, plural -kies.
1. a male servant in livery.
2. an assistant who does menial work.
3. a toady; yes-man.

That's the definition and it fits what the Sephiroth Copies are. Christ, how can you seriously argue that they ARE NOT flunkies? It makes no damn sense.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

All of this hubaloo over the word 'flunkies'. What have we come to?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Where have you been? The argument isn't about "flunky" its about how the word fits in the translation of the game, and how the black cloaks are flunkies. I thought you were posting and following the dicussion here. It's a discussion about how the word fits or doesn't fit. Especially after OP goes around saying the word makes no sense, no one knows what it means, and it's completely wrong in the original script of the game.

 

[Pixel]

To me flunkies are like goons, ya know, like "ok boss".

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, the Sephiroth Clones say that equivalent. "Must....get...Black Materia..."

"Obey the will of Sephiroth...."

"Become one...with Sephiroth..."

I'm failing to see how they are not flunkies.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Flunkies isn't a perfect word, but neither is clones or doubles. Perhaps mindless slaves...

 

[I Am Not Me]

Let me slice this one at you. I have now spoke to 4 japanese speaking people, 2 at qhimms. All 3, apart from the one here are in agreement that flunkies is incorrect

Thats right, in agreement. So that means 3-1 OVER RULED.

Where are these Japanese speaking peoples I hear? I also speak Japanese, but I can't read the stupid language. I guess I can add to the Japanese speaking peoples here in the forum? At least we know we exist here.


I don't see what's this big deal about flunkies. I mean, come on, is it a gigantic plothole that affects the whole FFVII story or something?

And then you call everyone ignorant assholes because of one word? Wow. Talk about intelligent.

This is why retranslating FFVII is a waste of time. All this trouble over ONE WORD. And FFVII has a lot of words. Should we start arguing about the original translation's choice of using the word 'orthopedic' for Tifa's panties then? Because I thought Cloud was totally stealing Tifa's grandma's panties...



And your retranslated Barret is weird, IMO. I don't like him. He isn't my Barret


Edit: Who spoke this bloody 'flunkies' line anyway? D:

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The argument isn't about "flunky"

Tell that to DLPB.

 

[Strangelove]

Japanese Barret wouldn't be 'Mr. T', since he's an English-speaking cultural thing. Unless we're comparing it to Japanese dubbed A-Team or something.

How exactly do you think he's different in the Japanese? He might not have said "fool" or anything (because obviously, he's speaking Japanese), but he still speaks in a rough and rude manner.

I am would never help you?

Drop an apostrophe and an M there, Hitobito.

This was another time what I wasn't paying attention to what was on the screen and not just in my head That was just a quick pass at it to have a go and see what it'd be like.

Let me slice this one at you. I have now spoke to 4 japanese speaking people, 2 at qhimms. All 3, apart from the one here are in agreement that flunkies is incorrect

Which are you talking about?

If you'll read back, I never said I liked the word 'flunkies', although I don't think it obscures the meaning as much as you're making it out. It might not be exactly what the Japanese says, but sometimes you do have to change things. I don't think anything I've suggested would sound that much better either. But on the scale of errors in FFVII, I don't think this really ranks that high.

But calling it 'copy', when that term is already used in the game but not originally in this scene, doesn't really seem like a better idea. It makes it sound like Cloud knows that they are Sephiroth Copies, but 1) does Cloud know that? 2) does he even know what a Copy is at this point?

I had a look at the forum link you posted here, but (in regards to the translation of the scene at the start of the Temple of the Ancients) I don't see how 死んで、星とひとつになれる became "death like a star".

死んで = die and...
星と = with the planet
ひとつになれる = be able to become one

'Becoming one with the planet' is frequently mentioned in FFVII, but you're going to lose that with 'death like a star', which would be the opposite of what you were aiming for with this project.

 

[Pixel]

Yeah, the Sephiroth Clones say that equivalent. "Must....get...Black Materia..."

"Obey the will of Sephiroth...."

"Become one...with Sephiroth..."

I'm failing to see how they are not flunkies.

But they're not willing participants, are they? They're controlled by jenova's will. I dont know what the word would be, but its not flunkies imo.

I mean, you could call loz and yazoo flunkies, but would you call the children flunkies when they're under jenova's control? Never mind the dictionary definition of the word

 

[Makoeyes987]

You don't have to be a willing participant to be a "flunky." It's a perojative that describes the servitude behavior of a person or persons.

And you could call the children flunkies if they acted like it. If they're servile, speaking of their undying devotion and obedience to Sephiroth, and doing with no thought to their own lives, yeah...they're flunkies. Toadies. Slaves. Whatever.

 

[NoenGaruth]

This has now been confirmed on qhimms as "copy" not double. It is a direct reference to the black cloaked people. So flunkies is 100% wrong,. Not opinion. FACT.

Because if people on Qhimm said so it must be fact

There's no proof Square's intention was for it to be copy in the international release, therefore it's an opinion.

Really the members here are just trying to help, you miss the point that you can't take the direct translation from Japanese as the single truth of what the english version should be, as not everything in it will have the same meaning, thus leading to a translation that's inferior and confusing when compared to the original english version for the PS1.

Furthermore, I will be in discussions ith japanese people about barret wallace. It turns out the Mr T stereo type was added by the translation team. Barret wallace will need a new and accurate personality.

Which will in turn butcher the character.

Again, things get changed for the english version so it makes more sense to the english speaking audience and they can relate better to the story and characters. So pretty much you could give barret a 'new' personality but it wouldn't work as well as the original one the translation team put in.

Open your mind and think about ALL the arguments presented to you rather than just accept the interpretations that the people on Qhimm tell you are 'facts'.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Flunkies isn't a perfect word, but neither is clones or doubles. Perhaps mindless slaves...

...or Sephiroth's bitches.

 

[I Am Not Me]

...or Sephiroth's bitches.

Sephiroth's harem.

 

[Pixel]

I guess we'll agree to disagree then lol.

But i would ask that people dont be rude to the thread starter, for making the exact same observation. Doesnt matter how others act, ar if anyone thinks they're being arrogant. Have a nice civil conversation without throwing insults.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Tell the OP not to be rude. No one's been rude at his arrogance and bull headed attitude that what he says is absolutely true (despite several people here showing him the fact otherwise), and whoever the fuck is at Qhimm is infallible. You're ordering the wrong people here and it's not necessary, dude.

Anyways, back on topic please.

 

[Ryushikaze]

But they're not willing participants, are they? They're controlled by jenova's will. I dont know what the word would be, but its not flunkies imo.

I mean, you could call loz and yazoo flunkies, but would you call the children flunkies when they're under jenova's control? Never mind the dictionary definition of the word

The speaker is unaware that the black cloaks aren't willing, for however much that makes a difference.

 

[Strangelove]

...or Sephiroth's bitches.

"Sephiroth's got all them bitches."

Settled

This is why retranslating FFVII is a waste of time. All this trouble over ONE WORD. And FFVII has a lot of words.

I don't think it is a complete waste of time, because there are misleading errors in FFVII's English script. But I think throwing the whole English script out is creating more work than is needed.

 

[I Am Not Me]

But I think throwing the whole English script out is creating more work than is needed.

Is what I meant.

 

[Pixel]

The speaker is unaware that the black cloaks aren't willing, for however much that makes a difference.

Oh, wait, who is refering to them as flunkies? in someones pov, they could be refered to as anything that fits the characters perception. Sorry, didnt read the original reference to flunkies. Just saw the stupid argument about it.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Oh, wait, who is refering to them as flunkies?

I second this question. Who was it?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Wow. Apparently people didn't even know.

It was Cloud. In the Temple of the Ancients.

 

[I Am Not Me]

We didn't know because it wasn't really that important.

Well to me, anyway. So it's kind of puzzling how everyone's getting worked up over it.


Ah, so it was Cloud. Since it's a character within the game, I think Cloud saying 'flunkies' isn't that weird when describing Sephiroth's bitches.

I don't think Cloud even exactly knew if they were clones, copies or whatever. Flunkies fit then.